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Abel
January 29, 2010, 10:56 PM
What is the most useful obsolete cartridge out there? By obsolete, I mean a cartridge that is no longer being chambered in most new rifles. And by useful, I mean it could and should be around today based on its performance against a similar cartridge that may have run it out of town. The 30-40 Krag immediately comes to mind. 300 Savage? Maybe the 32 Special. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface here. 6mm Remington is another. You tell me.

RWNielsen
January 29, 2010, 11:01 PM
This should be a fun thread
Some of these folks have History :D

Jimro
January 29, 2010, 11:05 PM
Wow, off the top of my head...

222 Rem, 280 Ross, 270 Newton, 8x63 Swedish, 9x57, 9.3x57, 250-3000, 318 Westley Richards, 25-35, and 7mm Waters.

Those would be in place of 22 Hornet, 280 Rem, 270 Win, 325 WSM, 358 Win, 257 Robers, 338-06, and the 30-30.

Jimro

emcon5
January 29, 2010, 11:07 PM
256 Newton.

bigwrench
January 29, 2010, 11:18 PM
25-35. 7-30 waters, 375. winchester, and I have been hoping that the 5mm remington rimfire magnum would make a comeback.;) Oh and don't forget the 307. winchester even if it has been duplicated in the .308 marlin,

bigwrench
January 29, 2010, 11:21 PM
And the 250 -3000 savage and the 284 winchester and.............

bamaranger
January 30, 2010, 01:08 AM
The 5mm mag is back! Aquilla/Centurion is loading ammo.

I'm not sure how "useful", but the .348 Win, in the M71 has got to be on the list.

bigwrench
January 30, 2010, 01:26 AM
Hey that 5mm ammo is a little hotter than the origanal stuff to, Now if Marlin or savage would just build me a new rifle chambered in 5mm!

telemark
January 30, 2010, 01:49 AM
I am a big fan of the .307 Winchester, and really fell in love with it once I got my hands on the Hornady FTX bullets.

troy_mclure
January 30, 2010, 02:47 AM
i would say the 45/70 but its never gonna go "out of production"!

darkgael
January 30, 2010, 04:26 AM
+1 for the 250-3000 Savage. I'm always on the lookout for a Model 99 in chambered for the 250. Last one that I saw, I could not afford. Alas.
Another nice old cartridge is the 32 Winchester. And how about the .348 Win., any new guns being made for that great old round?
Pete

geetarman
January 30, 2010, 06:24 AM
The day I got out of the Navy in 1965, I went to a photo shop in Charleston to buy a Remington 700 in 22-250. The owner told me he had sold the rifle the week before but that he had just gotten in a .225 Winchester Model 70.

The rifle had a nice bull barrel and I bought it and had a Lyman 8X scope mounted on it.

The rifle shot good and I had no problem with it at all. Killed my first ground hog with it. That cartridge just never caught on due to Remington taking the plunge and making the 22-250 available as a factory round.

I kept the rifle until the middle '70s and traded it for a Ruger Super Blackhawk.

It was a great round and just suffered from the overwhelming popularity of the 22-250.:D

Mike Irwin
January 30, 2010, 08:53 AM
First, define obsolete.

My take on it is that it's obsolete if ammo is no longer made by one of the big manufacturers. If that's the case, .300 Savage doesn't qualify, but .303 Savage does.

Others would say it means that rifles chambered in that cartridge are no longer commonly available; .300 Savage would qualify in this case.

Personally, I go with the first one. And I love my .300 Savages, all four of them. :)

davecharles
January 30, 2010, 09:25 AM
Obsolite is an interesting concept in firearms. 25 years ago I wanted a centerfire rifle and didnt have a lot of money so I bought a 96 mauser for $39 from Century Arms. I had to look long and hard for ammo for the obsolite caliber. (6.5 X55). I loved the gun and bought and sporterized several more. ( I wish I had bought 100 at that price) Now with the renewed interest in the 6.5 mm bullet (realizing what the Swedes knew 100 years ago) The 6.5X 55 is no longer considered an obsolite caliber. I guess a caliber is obsolite when no one wants to use it.
Dave

smith357
January 30, 2010, 09:38 AM
I have always liked the .38-55, I'm not sure its obsolete, but it's not that common and very few, if any new rifles are chambered for it.

kraigwy
January 30, 2010, 10:56 AM
44-90 Sharps Bottle Neck

Malamute
January 30, 2010, 11:28 AM
Good choice Kraig.

I'm liking the 348. Also looking forward to doing some hunting with the 38-55 with modern loads.

Chaz88
January 30, 2010, 11:37 AM
.257 Weatherby. It is not quite obsolete yet but I can never find brass at gun shops or shows and the only factory amo I can find comes from Weatherby at $53 a box.

Pathfinder45
January 30, 2010, 12:01 PM
How is it that the .35 Remington is still here while the .33 WCF has disappeared? Some of those 1886 Winchester Extra-Lights in .33 WCF are the nicest looking lever-guns I've ever seen.

WIN71
January 30, 2010, 12:05 PM
I'm liking the 348. Also

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w140/win71/71-348.jpg

N.H. Yankee
January 30, 2010, 12:10 PM
The 307 Winchester should have been a keeper, I also miss the model 94 7-30 waters.

seant
January 30, 2010, 01:45 PM
8 mm remington magnum

Tom Matiska
January 30, 2010, 02:13 PM
Another vote for the 307. Last trip to Cabelas I was shocked to find no evidence the 358 Win ever existed. No loaded ammo, brass, dies, anything.

spitpatch
January 30, 2010, 02:28 PM
225 Win - 222 mag - 219 zipper - 22 hi-power - 218 bee - 25-20 - 25-25--showing my age again.

David the Gnome
January 30, 2010, 04:41 PM
The .303 British.

http://enfielditis.net/LSA_sporter/lsasporter001.jpg

bigghoss
January 30, 2010, 05:06 PM
I'm gonna say .307 winchester since the .308 marlin express was designed around the same idea

.300 Weatherby Mag
January 30, 2010, 05:07 PM
.43 spanish

Chaz88
January 30, 2010, 06:02 PM
The .303 British.

I have thought about getting a 303. I still come across a fair amount at shows and I ended up with a set of dies and some amo in a "box" deal.

N.H. Yankee
January 31, 2010, 07:54 AM
Another is the 30-40 Krag, smooth bolt action though a little weak with one locking lug. My first deer rifle was a Krag carbine ( a real carbine ) not a cut down version. My grandfather bought it for me, he picked one up on the battlefield in WWI and fell in love.

Uncle Buck
January 31, 2010, 09:02 AM
.222 is my vote. I just do not see much ammo available for it and unless I want to order the components from on-line, there are not many projectiles available to me locally.

It is a great cartridge for plinking targets and dropping a thieving, no good, nut stealing, squirrel right on his bushy tail. I have used it on coyotes and my step dad use to use it on deer.

Old Time Hunter
January 31, 2010, 09:21 AM
.307 Winchester or the larger diameter one...the .356 Winchester get my vote for the more modern rifles (they are basically a rimmed .308 or .358). Love the .348, but I really, really do not need that much power....same thing goes for the .405. The .43 Mauser is a cool cartridge....or the .44-77 Sharp's.

Locoweed
January 31, 2010, 09:33 AM
.44-40 Winchester. I have heard it said that the .44-40 killed more game, large and small, and more men, good and bad, than any other cartridge in the old west.

mac266
January 31, 2010, 09:38 AM
I'm surprised there aren't more votes for the .257 Roberts.

For varmints and smaller game, why not the .218 Bee?

Flatbush Harry
January 31, 2010, 11:06 AM
I'll vote for the .300 H&H Mag...great performance/great feeding reliability.

FH

Old Time Hunter
January 31, 2010, 11:16 AM
.44-40 Winchester. I have heard it said that the .44-40 killed more game, large and small, and more men, good and bad, than any other cartridge in the old west.

This is not an obsolete caliber as there are a number of manufacturers that produce new rifle chambered for the .44-40....just check out Uberti, Pedersoli, and the like. Heck, even Ruger still manufactures an SA in .44-40.

crimsondave
January 31, 2010, 12:26 PM
Kudos seant!

+1 8mm Remington Mag

One NASTY round. Griz mauler.

KySilverado
January 31, 2010, 12:32 PM
Only because its the only obsolete cartridge I have any experience with. The 25-20 Single Shot. I haven't even shot it yet. :D Putting together an 1885 Winchester that was given to me, chambered in it.

earlthegoat2
January 31, 2010, 12:36 PM
Id say mine is also the 303 British. I will one day get the Lee-Speed my dad jealously holds on to which is just like David the Gnome's. In the meantime I have a Lee-Enfield No 4 MK I to play with.

lt dan
January 31, 2010, 02:32 PM
definitely 300H&H. all though it is everything but obsolete here in africa. imho the best cartridge to reload.

riggins_83
January 31, 2010, 02:47 PM
38-55 all the way. It's what my grandpa hunted with, what my dad hunted with... and what I've never hunted with :)

Moloch
January 31, 2010, 03:11 PM
.54 muzzleloader patched round ball / 350 grain .54 conical!

emcon5
January 31, 2010, 11:29 PM
I have thought about getting a 303. I still come across a fair amount at shows and I ended up with a set of dies and some amo in a "box" deal. It is pretty hard to call .303 British obsolete when Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady, Privi Partisan and Wolf all still make .303 ammo.

Crankylove
January 31, 2010, 11:49 PM
.358 Winchester. I love mine, but its the only one I have ever seen in person, and I have yet to see factory ammo on a store shelf.

Last trip to Cabelas I was shocked to find no evidence the 358 Win ever existed. No loaded ammo, brass, dies, anything.

Cabela's by me (Lehi, Ut) has never had any dies or components either. I do find Winchester .358 brass at a smaller local store, and also got my dies there, they had 2 sets on the shelf, I couldn't believe it.

A_Gamehog
February 1, 2010, 12:03 AM
at 60$ a box it's why most Weatherby owners re-load. That works out to 3$ per squirrel!

Chaz88
February 1, 2010, 12:14 AM
at 60$ a box it's why most Weatherby owners re-load.

Amen to that! I can't even afford to site my .257 WB mag in with factory amo.

Weatherby sure did mange to make a strong niche for themselves when they started the belted cases.

Pointer
February 1, 2010, 01:32 AM
Weatherby sure did mange to make a strong niche for themselves when they started the belted cases.


Not to mention the double radiused case shoulder... ;)

Chaz88
February 1, 2010, 01:43 AM
Not to mention the double radiused case shoulder...

LoL.. Almost forgot about that. Sure don't want to confuse .300 WM with .300 WBM.

.300 Weatherby Mag
February 1, 2010, 03:30 AM
LoL.. Almost forgot about that. Sure don't want to confuse .300 WM with .300 WBM.

Thats like comparing a GT Mustang with a 289 and automatic to a Yenko Camaro.... Don't do it... The camaro and in this case .300 Weatherby will win the horsepower race...

Bud Helms
February 1, 2010, 05:14 AM
Coming into this thread late (and I fast-forwarded as I skimmed) ...

Seriously, we need a definition of obsolete. Even the US Gov't finds the definition of obsolete is a challenging one in their technology race to stay ahead. Think about it. Obsolete as in there are better cartridges out there? Obsolete in that they were not originally a black powder cartridges? Obsolete in that there are no commercial (factory) loads available? Obsolete because one can no longer buy even the brass? Obsolete because you can't buy a tactical rifle chambered in that round? Or obsolete because you nor your hunting buddies would get caught dead with one? ;)

Define obsolete.

Merriam-Webster Online says:

obsolete (adj): a. no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b. of a kind or style no longer current: old-fashioned <an obsolete technology>

"No longer current" still leaves a lot of room for definition. Rifles chamberings don't go out of style. You'd have to go back to black powder cartridge chamberings to even find suitable criteria to define obsolete. And some of those have made the grade with modern powders and aren't considered obsolete: .30-30.

gyvel
February 1, 2010, 05:31 AM
.35 Whelen.

WIN71
February 1, 2010, 12:19 PM
Weatherby sure did mange to make a strong niche for themselves when they started the belted cases.

Belted cases have been around for a long time. I'm not sure if it was first but the old 375H&H is both flanged and belted and it came out in 1912. Roy Weatherby was two years old.

A_Gamehog
February 1, 2010, 12:40 PM
Chaz88,

When I worked up new loads last summer for my 300 WBY I was shooting Barnes 180 TTSX and Norma Brass with R-25 ! $Tell$ me about it!

savage1r
February 1, 2010, 02:21 PM
Would love to see a new 7.62x54r based rifle.

Buzzcook
February 1, 2010, 03:42 PM
I haven't shot any obsolete cartridges so I can only speculate.

Looking at the preformance characteristics of the .40-60 makes me think it would be good one to bring back. The .40-65 would be a somewhat slower cartridge that might be nice to have back as well.

I think a medium sized, moderate velocity round between .35 and .45 would be a good idea.

Chaz88
February 1, 2010, 04:26 PM
Roy Weatherby was two years old.

I read someplace that Weatherby insisted on perpetuating the belted case and double radius shoulders so that the other manufactures would have a harder time copying his chambering. Just because I read it doesn't make it true but that is where my thinking came from.

dgludwig
February 1, 2010, 04:50 PM
My votes go to the .22 Hornet, the .222 Remington Magnum, the .220 Swift, the .257 Roberts, the 7X64 Brenneke and the .358 Winchester. Heck, with these six cartridges (and, of course a .22 rimfire), all the bases are covered in North America, from squirrels to moose. Of course, most of them wouldn't be on back-order at your local WalMart and I doubt rain checks would be issued.

WIN71
February 1, 2010, 08:48 PM
I read someplace that Weatherby insisted on perpetuating the belted case and double radius shoulders
So far as I know in the early 40's he may have had the only belted American cartridges.

Grandpatime
February 1, 2010, 08:52 PM
50-70;)

earlthegoat2
February 1, 2010, 09:11 PM
It is pretty hard to call .303 British obsolete when Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady, Privi Partisan and Wolf all still make .303 ammo.

That is why it falls into the category of obsolete by the fact that rifles are not being made chambered in it.

Ridgerunner665
February 1, 2010, 09:18 PM
30 Remington (and the Model 81)

moosemike
February 2, 2010, 08:01 AM
405 Winchester

David Turley
February 28, 2010, 07:39 AM
the 30-40 krag would be my choise my friend hunts with one and it performs great on deer

shuttercat
February 28, 2010, 07:22 PM
.38 Super Auto, .22 Hornet

BusGunner007
February 28, 2010, 07:25 PM
6.5x55 Swede.

Mallard76
February 28, 2010, 07:33 PM
.350 Rem. Mag. Packs a punch on both ends!

oneoldsap
February 28, 2010, 08:19 PM
I'm not sure what the criteria is to be obsolete . I like my .358 Win. ,and since there is only one factory load for it I guess all ammo makers , except Winchester think it's obsolete . I also like my .300 Savage , which has been around since 1922 . I have no interest in any cartridge introduced since 1980 !

mapsjanhere
February 28, 2010, 08:43 PM
The "obsolete" is very limited to US use, the 22 Hornet and the 7x64 are some of the most popular cartridges in Germany.

jammin1237
February 28, 2010, 08:45 PM
.30 herret - never shot one..., if anybody here has, tell all...

joeseabee
February 28, 2010, 09:07 PM
My vote would be for the 300 savage. It's the best deer cartridge I have. Shooting out of my Savage model 99 (1947ish) I've never had a deer take a step...

TJH3781
February 28, 2010, 09:11 PM
7 X 61 S&H

emcon5
February 28, 2010, 09:28 PM
6.5x55 Swede. Excellent cartridge, but not obsolete in any way shape or form. Sako/Tikka, Blaser and CZ all make rifles in 6.5x55, and everyone makes ammo.