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View Full Version : Full length/Mannlicher stock advantages?


rbernie
January 27, 2010, 08:32 PM
I know that a Mannlicher-style (full length) stock has some degree of negative accuracy implications. So other than cosmetics, is there any positive advantage to a full-length stock?

taylorce1
January 27, 2010, 09:02 PM
Not really that I know of, but they sure look cool! I really like mine!

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/taylorce1/dsc0796.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/taylorce1/dsc0804.jpg

warbirdlover
January 27, 2010, 10:29 PM
Might have something to do with calming the barrel resonation? Maybe why they created the BOSS system and the de-resonator?

I know everyone seems to feel that free floating a barrel is best but I'm not all that sure. Many (many, many, many) years ago I built a custom .243 with a new Mauser Supreme barreled action on a Fajen stock and at that time you had slight pressure on the barrel 3/4 up the stock. That gun shot the best sub-MOA groups (around 1/2") at 100 yards of any gun I've owned.

Just my "theory". My Ruger M77 Mark II all-weather .300 WM is a tack hammer also. I just checked and it's not free floated. Never bothered to check it before because why fool with what works.

Crankylove
January 27, 2010, 11:52 PM
Protects the hand from a hot barrel after fast or prolonged firing. Thats why many military bolt guns had a full, or 3/4 length stock.

Some people also like the looks...........but not me.

mapsjanhere
January 28, 2010, 08:21 AM
They are popular with some hunters for difficult terrain. More protection for the barrel when you're banging it against trees etc climbing down some ravine. Plus free floating is usually more important for target shooting where you warm up the barrel and the stock can push against it, leading to stringing. For a hunter the first shot, and maybe a quick second are all they do, so cold barrel performance is all they count on.

earlthegoat2
January 28, 2010, 09:22 AM
They are popular with some hunters for difficult terrain. More protection for the barrel when you're banging it against trees etc climbing down some ravine. Plus free floating is usually more important for target shooting where you warm up the barrel and the stock can push against it, leading to stringing. For a hunter the first shot, and maybe a quick second are all they do, so cold barrel performance is all they count on.

I tend to agree with this.

The full length stock sporters originated in Europe where hunting is done in mountains and woods. Lightweight guns are as good there as anywhere but the full stock probably protected them frome the rocks and trees that are often encountered on the drives that are common there. Europeans are not as OBESSED about accuracy as Americans. 2-3" groups at 100 yds is more than acceptable so the full stock really has no disadvantages. Add that to the fact that they tend to never take long shots and do not scope may of their sporters and the accuracy issue with a full stock becomes a moot point indeed.

I absolutely love the looks of them. Unfortunately I only have one left right now. Will get another one soon.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/earlthegoat2/SDC11413.jpg

dgludwig
January 28, 2010, 03:00 PM
Though I've always liked the looks of them and still have one (a Ruger International), you'll never see a serious match rifle with a full-length stock and they are notorious for collecting water and debris, with the attendant rust problems posed by trapped water hidden from view. If you are caught in the rain while hunting with a Mannlicher stock, just be sure to separate the stock from the action/barrel to get rid of any moisture. And hope that in the process you haven't changed the poi from the poa.

Scorch
January 28, 2010, 06:00 PM
There is no real advantage to a full-length "Mannlicher" stock other than to protect a light barrel from bumps and scratches imparted by rocks and such. Supposedly, the style originated among European firearms makers who made rifles for the nobility in Austria. According to the account version I read, a noted sportsman who was also an archduke wanted a full-stocked rifle because he liked to hold his rifle by the barrel when climbing in the mountains after game. The style caught on, and stuck (imagine that, copycatting back in the 1800s). I am sure the inaccuracy caused by pressure against the barrel was not an issue in those halcyon days before optical sights and 1,000 yds MOA shots became common.

DiscoRacing
January 28, 2010, 06:58 PM
i got a ruger 77 last year with one on it... and the resale value was about twice what I paid for it... thats an advantage:eek:

KurtC
January 28, 2010, 08:20 PM
Militaries worldwide have been using wood to protect the barrel for as long as shoulder arms have been in use. Wood was cheap, barrels were expensive.

What we know of today as a Mannlicher stock has its roots in the cavalry version of the German Gew 88 "commission" rifle, circa 1890. These had full length stocks, metal forend tips and spatulate bolt handles. Mannlicher himself was part of the "coamission." A picture of this model is below:

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Pictures/man_0133-01.JPG

In 1900, Mannlicher mated this action and stock with Schoenauer's rotary magazine, creating the dynasty of rifles that we still enjoy today. The first real production model, the 1903 carbine, was intended for Alpine hunting.

Mannlicher-Schoenauers, along with Sako, CZ and a few others, used heavy barrels that were not effected by stock pressure. Accuracy was, and still is, remarkable. Other companies, such as Ruger, use pencil thin ultra-light barrels that heat up quickly and begin stringing. In 30 years of collecting such carbines, the most unusual model was the Antonio Zoli 1900 made in Italy. While it had a full length stock, the barrel was free-floated.

sc928porsche
January 28, 2010, 08:30 PM
Nice stock on that old Krag.

bamaranger
January 30, 2010, 01:59 AM
Jeff Cooper, may he shoot "x"'s forever, related the walking stick theory in one of his columns of Coopers Corner as I recall.

Lawyer Daggit
January 30, 2010, 02:42 AM
RE earlier comment, Sako stocks are not really full wood stocks, the stock is in two pieces separating at the swivel band.

Historically were CZ producing Mannlicher stocked firearms as production arms? I have only seen full wood stocks on relatively recent CZ's (and a CZ book I have going back to the 70's does not list them).

I would be surprised if they would utilize a heavy barrel on a carbine. Although I must confess the use of lightweight barrels by American manufacturers like Ruger and Remington baffles.

dgludwig
January 30, 2010, 03:19 PM
I don't believe that a thin sliver of wood was ever designed to protect a steel barrel from a handling mishap. But, as I opined in my earlier post, to my eyes, a Mannlicher stock, as impractical as it might be, does "look" nice-though others adamantly disagree; beauty always being in the eyes of the beholder.

KurtC
January 30, 2010, 03:38 PM
The wood was intended to absorb shocks from bumps and bangs, sort of like the collapsible bumper on a car.

CZ began producing full stock models when they were allowed to use their own name, with the 550 series. I do not know of any made while they were still being forced to market them under the Brno name (600 series). Between 1942 and 1954, the original Brno made full stock commercial rifles and carbines (21f, 22f, etc) using small ring 98's. These had pencil thin barrels that made them very light, but they also heated up very quickly. The Brno model B, made on a large ring 98 in the 1930's, also had a full length stock. These were marketed to compete with the Mauser M and S.

The current CZ550 has more wood than two of the original Brno models :D

Lawyer Daggit
January 30, 2010, 07:11 PM
I must confess the light barrel on my Model 7 MS .350 is not really a problem because the laminated stock is very stable and has never touched the barrel. I used to have a .308 m77 RSI and it would never shoot accurately and no matter what I did to try and fix the problem it would end up with the barrel touching the wood.

KurtC
January 30, 2010, 07:31 PM
Your Remington MS7 is also bedded at the barrel shoulder/recoil lug.

Lawyer Daggit
January 31, 2010, 12:24 AM
It is, but it does not adversely effect accuracy.

KurtC
January 31, 2010, 09:34 AM
It should improve accuracy. The factory only does it on their Custom Shop models.