View Full Version : AR-15 vs AK-47 as a first rifle...

December 22, 2009, 09:05 PM
Scenario: Home defense, not deer hunting.

Are most of the AK's on the market used?
I am also wary because many countries seem to produce them at widely varying levels of quality.

I also hear good things about the AK like durability and ease of use.

Are it's 7.62x39mm cartridges easy to find in the US?

In the final analysis, which would you choose, the AK-47 or the AR-15?

December 22, 2009, 09:15 PM
well the ak ammo is easy to find just ask for 7.62 ammo and places like cheaper than dirt that do lots of mill surp have it stacked as far as the eye can see in the soviet spam cans. nothing more durable then the soviet weapons. the ar you have a smaller round more accurate but for home defense it all depends on personal preference. I have an m14 so it has the 7.62 round with more powder behind it.

December 22, 2009, 09:30 PM
Cost is a consideration for most of us nowadays and all ARs are pricey, they are very accurate for long distance shooting and you can probably find ammo for home defense but for basic top quality reliability go with an AK.

December 22, 2009, 09:51 PM
maybe you should do a poll!!!!

i would definitly go with the ar. there might come a time when you want to shoot @ 400, 500, 600yds. its alot of fun shooting steel targets at those ranges and you might as well forget shooting the ak with any accuracy at those ranges.

maybe you wont ever shoot that far but for an extra hundred bucks or so it would be worth it to me to keep my options open.

at 600 yds with a decent ar15 and some practice you will hit a man sized steel gong 8 out of 10 times

you will be lucky to hit it 2 out of ten with the ak.

December 22, 2009, 10:02 PM
look at the saiga's you can go with 7.62x39,223,308,and
a new one thats got alot surplus ammo avalible but i
cant remember what it is and the are brand new
and made in origanal russian izhmash factory with
minor altering to get pistol grip and hi cap mags
check into them i had a graet time doing mine.
check up on the 922 compliance stuff and your in

December 22, 2009, 10:24 PM
first rifle?

ar's are complicated to maintain.

any 10 year old child (and they do all over the world) can learn to field strip an ak in 30 minutes or less.

ar's can be extremly accurate, even match grade.

ak's can shoot minute of body accuracy very well.

at this time ar ammo is expensive and sometimes hard to find.

ak ammo is normally more readily available and at a lesser cost.

the cost of ar's seems to be coming down.

many ak's can be found for less than half the cost of an ar.

ar's probably have an edge in lower cost mags and accessories.

ak accessories are increasing and mag prices are reasonable.

i own 2 of each......i want more ak's :)

December 22, 2009, 10:27 PM
I suggest going a different route for home protection. If you are forced to use it to protect yourself or your family it won't help you in court when they hold up an Ak47. It'll make you look like you wanted to kill someone.
I know that's not the case but you need to think of these type of things before it becomes a problem. Not to mention an AR and Ak are both much more powerful than you need for home protection.

If it wasn't used as a home protection firearm I personally say go with the AR first. I have both and just find it more enjoyable to shoot. If you can shoot both and find out which one works best for you.

December 22, 2009, 10:30 PM
Scenario: Home defense, not deer hunting.

As has already been said, there's "AKs" that shoot the same caliber that ARs do, and you can even get a piston operated AR if you are completely stoked on it and/or concerened for reliability. It seems to all come down to preference.

You can use an AR for home defense just fine, I don't think there's enough environmental hazards inside a house to jam up an AR; However, if there is then you have more issues than just worrying about people wanting to break in. :)

December 22, 2009, 10:32 PM
Get the AK now and you will appreciate the AR later, but don't ever get rid of the AK :)

December 22, 2009, 10:35 PM
any 10 year old child (and they do all over the world) can learn to field strip an ak in 30 minutes or less.

are you serious?


there is nothing complicated about the ar. in fact i can tell you with supreme confidence that it is quite a bit quicker and easier to field strip than an ak.

in fact the little girl in the video above can change the upper receiver and barrel to a completely different caliber in less than a minute. anyone thats ever owned one can. less than one minute. zero tools.

edit: contestant number 2

December 22, 2009, 11:17 PM

You have got to be kidding right? with all the little pins and parts an AR has more parts to loose, and is SLIGHTLY more complicated...yes anyone with an IQ of 90 and above should be able to do it proficiently with practice.

Field striping is NOT changing an UPPER, that is what's called changing the Subject. ;)

My advice is get the best model of EITHER you can afford, it very troubling to have to buy something twice because you went for the cheapest.

December 23, 2009, 12:08 AM
no izzy, i wouldnt kidd about something so serious.

and there are 2 pins that are removed for field stripping. 3 if you count the firing pin.

the pins that hold the upper and lower together are captured.

the ar strips easier, with less physical effort, and does it faster.

if he gets an ak, he will want an ar before its broken in. not the other way around.

set up a grapefruit at 300 yards and hit it in the first 3 rounds from an ar15. it aint happening with the ak.

the ak is a good weapon, but the range at which consistent hits become difficult, the ar is just getting started.

December 23, 2009, 12:21 AM
Were I to be going into battle in the muck, dirt, sand, etc I would take an AK. In battlefield conditions they have been proven more forgiving than the AR/M16. However in the home, either will do. I would go with the AR over the AK because they are generally more accurate and I like the way they feel better. They are more accessorizable and very easily upgradeable. I just assembled my first lower last night and it took me about 30 mins, with no previous experience with their inner workings. Price can be an issue but if you do it yourself you can save a LOT of money. My AR will cost me roughly $650 total when I get it done:

DPMS 16" Bull SS upper $444 (on sale)
Del Ton stripped lower $129
SS lower parts kit $55

Just a side note: Be careful when choosing your ammo. Over penetration is a BIG concern when using a rifle for home defense. Don't want to shoot at a bad guy and kill your neighbor...

December 23, 2009, 12:24 AM
AK Field strip: push button, push in to take off spring, pull bolt carrier back and take off carrier and bolt...they come apart by hand.

NO PINS, no fuss, nothing to loose.

No way in h#ll is the AR more simple. Not in stripping, not in parts count.

You are right the sight radius in an AK leaves a lot to be desired.

Ammo ( like wolf HP) really can make you think the rifle is sub-par...when all it needs is a good quality round in the chamber.

December 23, 2009, 02:34 AM
Well I wouldn't choose either for home defense, a good pistol or revolver is better suited for most. As far as a first rifle, I'd go with a .22lr.

Now with that out of the way, which to choose, AR or AK? Well, I have both and they're both excellent choices, there's really not a wrong answer. I'd say handle both and borrow and fire both. Whichever you like best, then get it and get a good one.

If I had to choose between them I'd have to go with the AR but I don't want to make that choice.

December 23, 2009, 02:36 AM
i would go with the AK. you can walk into academy and get a cheap box for 6 dollars. its not accurate at long ranges but like you said its self defense. and the 7.62x39 hits much harder. my idea of home defense is using a weapon that will take one shot to put them on the ground.

December 23, 2009, 02:40 AM
I prefer the AR15. I don't think it matters which you get first. Get the one that appeals to you more.

December 23, 2009, 02:47 AM
that is very true. it is all about comfort and what you feel best holding. i just happen to feel more comfortable with an AK than an AR

Piper Cub
December 23, 2009, 06:18 AM
The AR is a much safer rifle than the AK.

December 23, 2009, 07:08 AM
note: just ask for 7.62 ammo
I'd be real careful with that. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you might be. You could end up with 7.62 NATO or 7.62X54R ammo for the Moisin-Nagant. Ask for 7.62X39 specifically.

I appreciate the legendary reliability and durability of the AK, though I don't own one. I'm not going into battle. I have an SKS which suits me just fine.
I do own an AR for many years now. I shoot it frequently. It has NEVER not worked and I do not spend an inordinate amount of time maintaining it.
What has prevented me from purchasing an AK is that - aside from the battlefield - it has limited use for me. Take one to the range. What do you do with it aside from burn ammo? It's not a very satisfactory target gun - not at all. There's nothing that it will do at the range that the AR won't do way better and the range is where most of us do most of our shooting, I'm pretty sure.

December 23, 2009, 07:33 AM
AK is easier to maintain. They can be had in 7.62, 5.45, or 5.56.

AR is a great choice if you want to modify and customize.

Whichever one you choose to get first, you'll eventually end up with the other at a later time.

December 23, 2009, 07:59 AM
I am with quentin2: home defense - handgun but may depend on where you live (city with neighbors, etc).
AK vs AR ....... AR
I was in the same spot a few months back but not for home defense. I chose an AR because it is more comfortable to hold/shoulder and accepted to be more accurate of the two. AR and ammo is more expensive but OK.
To save on ammo, think of S&W 5.45x39 AR upper but this introduces other issues - ammo choices, steel core and corrosive but less expensive.

Whatever firearm you pick for home defense, consider over-penetration.

December 23, 2009, 08:02 AM
To Rickyjames: "ar's are complicated to maintain." Really? not mine. It is idiot proof. I am no engineer, but i nor anyone i know have trouble maintaining an AR. I can almost completely strip mine in a couple of minutes. Field strip in seconds. Run wet, clean after a few hundred rounds and it golden.

If all you want is grab and defend. The AK will do fine. An AK makes for fine HD weapon. Both weapons do. Get what you can afford. ARs prices are really low now. For pure HD against the typical break in, i would get a pump 12ga or 9mm hi capacity pistol. For SHTF then an AK or AR.

AK ammo can be found at most outdoor stores that sell ammo; Bass Pro, Dicks, etc and all gun shows.

try to shoot both. Make an educated choice. I personally didnt like the muzzle rise of the AK and SKS.

I agree with RT: "Whichever one you choose to get first, you'll eventually end up with the other at a later time. "

December 23, 2009, 08:27 AM
I have four ARs and an AK and I would never use either for home defense for the fear of over penetration. IMHO, a small gauge pump shot gun w/ an 18" barrel, i.e. .410 or 20g, is ideal for the home defense scenario or possibly an easy to operate revolver.

Granted, I know some of you live in more rural areas so you may want the capability of deterring someone from re-entering the home after a confrontation. But the most likely scenario in my situation and most home intrusions is an engagement of a perp at 10-15ft with the purpose of preserving and protecting you and your family's lives. Ideally no shots would be fired, but in the event that they are it probably isn't going to turn into a scene from "Die Hard".

Personally, I keep a Mossberg 500 .410 behind the bedroom room. It has the stopping power of a .44mag at 10ft and it looks like a squirrel gun to the district attorney,


*ps* On second thought, give serious consideration to an Hk-93 & Beta mag :rolleyes:;)

December 23, 2009, 09:30 AM
These threads always seem to go south quickly and I would just say that the oringator of the thread should go look and handle both and if he has the cash buy the one he likes the best. As many have stated the AR is a more accurate weapon and it's lighter and easy to handle and shoot. The AK is bullet proof in terms of being reliable and shooting any ammo but is rather crudely built. They are both easy to tear down and maintain.

December 23, 2009, 10:24 AM
I would go with the AK for a First Rifle. They are made to be abused, and still run.

I bought one years and years ago, and still have it. It will shoot and shoot, and shoot.

Ammo is still a little cheaper than it is for the AR.

But remember that the soviets made them first then the soviet block, then the rest of the world. I have had russian, romanian, bulgarian, yugo, and chinese models. They are all the same.

And parts are cheap.

December 23, 2009, 01:59 PM
Go to the store. Fondle a few. See what you like. Go to the range, ask people there if you can fire a couple of rounds through their rifles. See what you like. Think on it.

After all this buy what YOU want. Shoot it often, and enjoy your life. If you don't like your rifle you can always sell it or trade it for another.

December 23, 2009, 04:05 PM
Since its more home defense than deer hunting, I'd say AR15.

Get some quality mags and some good ammo, 75gr TAP ammo for your home dabout:blankefense ammo.

Get a white light, attach it to the carbine. Add a red dot optic (not a cheappie) after you save for a few months, buy it used if need be (Aimpoint Comp M2's are downright affordable used on many gun boards for sale sections), and practice with it.

Its ideal for home defense because it will defeat most body armor (home invasion bad guys are starting to use this believe it or not) and its less of an over penetration issue with 75gr TAP than it is shooting 9mm or other handgun rounds inside the house.

Check out the boxotruth.com if you think I blowing smoke up you know where, the research is out there.

December 23, 2009, 06:06 PM
Great responses.

The one thing nobody addressed is whether AK's are generally only available used.

I'd also like some info on determining country of origin because I
hear some countries produce very good ones and others pretty poor models.

I have to admit, I have questioned the practicality of either for home defense since I don't live in a rural area. I am pretty sure my .45 is pretty adequate.
There is always the question of either having a long gun grabbed from you
or just banging against things in the dark.

All the same, there is something undeniably cool, even including the crudeness of an AK!

December 23, 2009, 06:11 PM
I purchased a slightly used 7.62 Norinco AKM, made some changes and couldn't be happier with the results :cool:

December 23, 2009, 06:31 PM
The ergonimics on the AK platform are terrible. The length of pull is set for 3rd world midgets, the safety is awkward at best, the trigger tends to be crappy, the sights are difficult to adjust and are far too close together. The accuracy is 'relaxed' at best. Mag changes are less straight forward than with the AR. What they do well is to run. The AR15 is less forgiving of poor maintenence, but the sights, trigger, mag changes, overall ergos, and certainly accuracy are first rate. If you are uncomfortable with the direct gas impingement aspect, the Ruger itteration uses a piston ala AK and others.

One is a Rapier, the other a cleaver. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

December 23, 2009, 06:35 PM
jhenry The ergonomics on the AK platform are terrible.

But they don't have to be totally terrible...
The LOP is adjustable, the sights are now B.U.I.S., the Chinese trigger is
excellent, the safety is enhanced and the accuracy would surprise you :)


December 23, 2009, 07:46 PM
My vote would be AR, and not just because I am familiar with it.

For a first rifle, I would want something accurate enough to be interesting to keep me practicing. If I know the best I am going to do is "minute of body" no matter how much I practice, what would be the point.

December 23, 2009, 07:51 PM
I would go AK. It hits harder, box of 20 rds is $5, can be field stripped in less than 10 seconds, and the rifles are only 300-500 bucks. It may not be accurate at 500 yds, but who is going to be 500 yds away when they are breaking into your house?

December 23, 2009, 08:49 PM
SR420, that is an improvement. I should have specified bone stock for both really. Once we move past the basics, I would still opt for an AR, but I do have a fondness for the Galil. Yours looks quite nice by the way. What kind of groups can you manage with that?

December 23, 2009, 09:02 PM
jhenry, I hit whatever I put the red dot on out to 100 yards and have not tried a longer shot yet.
I will see how she does at longer ranges this spring and see what kind of groups she will print then.

December 23, 2009, 11:01 PM
I would say the photo of the improved AK with better parts is actually an admission that the original is less than it should be. If it takes all the add-on AR 15 parts to make it better, nuff said.

The ergos on the AK are not good, operating the safety means removing the shooting hand from the grip, the easy top cover disassembly means sight mounts are not easy or effective. The sight radius is short, and like the post from Missouri asking for parts, nothing is on the shelf.

The caliber is 1940's era, no better than the .30-30. Surplus may be stacked on the floor at gun shops, but it's all low grade 4 MOA fodder.

Home defense guns are often used for other purposes - and the AK isn't touted as much in hunting or target circles. There are many other better choices.

An AR is one. Military rifles are the heritage of the American shooting public. Every generation "takes" it's rifle home, in spirit if not exactly like the Swiss. The AR has more support, wider caliber and ammunition choices, more parts, more upgrades, a bigger user base, and more training available. The average quality is superior to the average AK - and they are made in America.

Buy the AR.

December 23, 2009, 11:02 PM
for home defence its personal preference im sorry but you did open up an age old can of worms. No one said anything about yardage or accuracy he is talking about defense of the home not on a battlefield not complex of parts can we please stay on topic. They are both powerfull rifles. It all depends on what you want.

December 23, 2009, 11:28 PM
Installing better parts on an AR must be an admission that the original is less than it should be.

Ignition Override
December 24, 2009, 12:38 AM
pvt. Long and one or two others beat me to it.

Unless I misunderstood, the original poster's stated objective, at least for discussion, is home defense.
As long as Wolf ammo has no FTF/fail-to-fire in a specific rifle, why is high gun accuracy (home defense range) a serious factor?

If a given AR, AK, SKS "Paratrooper", Mini 14/30 or M-1 Carbine etc with soft tipped bullets, is totally reliable for targets at 2-25 yards, then it still baffles me why people need a rifle which produces tight groups at 100 yards, unless also wanted for hunting or other offensive 'missions'.

December 24, 2009, 01:10 AM
Both of those rifles are capable of serious over penetration in an urban setting. Now if you're out in the country it may be a moot point but I would personally look into something in the CX4 Storm or other Handgun Caliber rifles. But that's just me...

December 24, 2009, 11:30 AM
original poster's stated objective, at least for discussion, is home defense.

OK, I will stay on task, but not be very helpful.

The answer for me, for home defense is NEITHER.

For strictly home defense, a shotgun is the correct answer for me.


December 24, 2009, 11:40 AM

For strictly home defense, a shotgun is the correct answer for me.

A good shotgun coupled with a good handgun is a great HD combo.


December 24, 2009, 11:43 AM
To me Reliability is the most important consideration for self defence. Please don't anyone say an AR is more reliable than an AK. Especially in the hands of a first time rifle owner.

December 24, 2009, 11:48 AM
Wouldn't a 7.62 penetrate through walls easly? If so, then that is to much liability for your stray bullets. you should look in to a shotgun like a remington 870 express marine mag. plus a shotgun has a variety of ammo capadilities.

Besides, the AK often comes with missmatched parts ( that is what has happened to my buddy several times) and the AK is usually a reproduction. Go with the AR. The quality is much more consistant and it is made in the U.S.A

December 24, 2009, 11:54 AM
For home defense, a gun that allows you to go from safe to fire without removing your firing grip is more ideal than one that requires you to (a) remove your firing grip to actuate the safety, or (b) clear the home with the safety off (posing a threat to potential family members). Keep in mind the AK doesn't have the long safe trigger pulls of Glocks & their kin.

In the end, go to the gun store, fondle one of each, and decide which one feels better for you. Personally, I like my ARs. YMMV

*ETA* The reliability hoopla is just that. Hoopla. Both rifles from decent manufacturers are reliable. Try to stay away from Century Arms AKs. I had two bad AKs before I found one that worked. Your results may vary :)

Master Blaster
December 24, 2009, 12:38 PM
I can field strip my AR-15 faster than I can field strip my AK guns. When folks field strip and AR they always take the bolt apart, remove the firing pin cam pin etc. Try that with your AK and let us know how you make out. I can also detail strip My AR much faster than I could fully detail strip an AK. But hey maybe some of you can remove all the rivets and pins on that AK with your teeth.

I can take off the barrel on my AR and switch from a 14.5" barrel with iron sights, to a 20" bull barrel with a sighted in scope in about 30 seconds with my AR-15. Anyone care to race me with their AK doing that??? I guess if you have an Arbor press with you it won't take you more than 1/2 an hour to change the barrel and the sights on your AK.

Now I like both platforms, but if I had to choose which on I would defend my life and my family with I will take my AR-15 any time. In a SHTF situation in the USA, it will be easier to get 5.56/223 ammo than 7.62X39.


December 24, 2009, 12:52 PM
This has all gotten pretty funny.

Choise the Right weapon for the job!
Know the advantages and dis-advantages of your chosen weapon.
Plan your ......................... ( thats the part most are missing)

December 24, 2009, 01:03 PM
I'm not sure where your home is or what you consider home defense, but I think both the AR and AK are overkill simply for home defense. As all around SHTF/homedef/plinker/fun gun, sure they're great, but if this is to simply be for HD, I'd say Remington 870 or a good quality handgun.

December 24, 2009, 01:04 PM
The one thing nobody addressed is whether AK's are generally only available used.

Brand new AKs are available from several different sources. At the moment the best buy is the SGL 20 from K-VAR that just went on sale today.


It's Russian made in Izhevsk at the factory that makes AKs for the Russian military. At $579.00 it is the best buy on AKs at the moment. I bought a SGL 21 last month which is the same rifle with the addition of an accessory lug for $505.00 when they were on sale back then. I'm extremely pleased with the fit and finish of these rifles.

Another source for a new AK is from Arsenal in Las Vegas. Their AKs are Bulgarian and are very good as well but significantly more expensive than the SGLs.

Personally I prefer an AK over an AR for personal defense. Yes, the manual of arms for an AK is different from the AR but different is not necessarily worse. Just don't try to run an AK like an AR and you'll be fine.

December 24, 2009, 03:40 PM
If I were you, I wouldnt get either for strictly HD.

Look into shotguns or even a handgun.

December 24, 2009, 04:24 PM
Merry Christmas to me.
Arsenal SLR106 in 5.56 Nato

December 25, 2009, 02:07 PM
I suggest going a different route for home protection. If you are forced to use it to protect yourself or your family it won't help you in court when they hold up an Ak47. It'll make you look like you wanted to kill someone.
I know that's not the case but you need to think of these type of things before it becomes a problem. Not to mention an AR and Ak are both much more powerful than you need for home protection.

What are you talking about? Most of the states have a castle doctrine law on the books and I personally could care less how I look. 2nd guessing and thinking too much can get get one killed. Anyway I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six, so I'll take my chances with overkill here in Georgia.

December 25, 2009, 06:01 PM
RT, you must have been VERY good this year!
That's quite a haul!

Ranger, I live in a "castle doctrine" site.
Not being involved in any kind of criminal activity, I'm not too worried
about jury perception of my weapon of choice.

In the unfortunate case that I would ever have to use it,
it would be very clear that my motive was only self defense.
In a best case scenario, charges would never be filed.

Getting back to AK's, while I generally dislike used weapons (they never seem as well cared for as mine) I would consider it in the case of the reliable AK. I kind of like the older ones with more wood.

Is there a reliable web site to order used AK's?
Or... is it best to visit a gun show?

One question I would like answered is from best to worst, which
countries produce quality AK's?

If at a gun show, how can you tell the difference?
Like just about everything else, do some unscrupulous dealers sell
AK's that seem to be produced in a quality country when they are really low end?

I had started reading about stamped vs milled "upper receivers", I believe.
Can you explain the difference?

For those recommending a shotgun as an alternative to an AK/AR-15,
I have considered this but it's a long ride to a range here that will allow you
to fire shotguns and even then you are limited to firing at a distance vs CQC.
(Well there is one indoor range that will let you fire shotguns but you have to be shooting low recoil slugs)

Having never fired either a shotgun or an AK, I am inclined to believe that
the shotgun would probably produce more recoil and muzzle flash.


December 25, 2009, 06:12 PM
I went with the AK-47, but would feel comfortable with either.

I am more comfortable with the operating system of the ak-47 and my ability to work on in if needs arise. I also like the ballistics of the 7.62x39 at fighting distances vs. 5.56x45

December 26, 2009, 12:23 AM
Good sight to look at for ak's is www.classicarms.us. We got one from there and it was a brand new wasr-10 in perfect condition with everthing I wanted for it for around $450. I would definately recommend these.

December 26, 2009, 01:22 AM
I wouldn't consider either for home defense unless I lived in a really sparsely populated place and stray bullets wouldn't end up where they shouldn't. So assuming I lived in such a place, I would go AK.

It seems like the most consistent criticisms of the AK has been that it's less accurate and its sights aren't as good. If we're talking the sorts of distances associated with home defense, there probably won't be ANY detectable difference in accuracy between the two guns. I think the AK's sights lend themselves to faster target acquisition, but that maybe just because it's what I am more accustomed to.

December 26, 2009, 01:29 AM
What are you talking about? Most of the states have a castle doctrine law on the books and I personally could care less how I look. 2nd guessing and thinking too much can get get one killed. Anyway I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six, so I'll take my chances with overkill here in Georgia.

Our rights concerning our home and property are diminishing every day, that is just the way it is. Criminals are being given the benefit of the doubt more and more nowadays.

It is easy to say you dont care but when you face those twelve you wont want them to label you as a nut job with an assault rifle complex and an itchy trigger finger who was looking for a fight.

As far as the judged by twelve nonsense is concerned, I don't want to be dead or in jail. I will take my chances with the "squirrel gun"

davlandrum is right. The court of public opinion matters.

December 26, 2009, 07:45 PM
Are all of the rifles on Classic Arms new?

They seem to specialize in Romanian and Polish AK's.

Is it "6 of one, half dozen of the other" or does one country produce a
clearly better product?

Another thing that nobody answered is whether milled is better than stamped.
(It would seem so).

December 26, 2009, 08:48 PM
Sorry I have to do it on the 1 millionth "ar vs. ak" thread...


...fear not and don't get any feathers ruffled, I'm not making fun of anyone. Mind you I know for a fact I started an AR vs. something (I believe mini14) thread a long time ago. Carry on and ignore me if I offend you.

December 26, 2009, 09:38 PM
This blows the AR and AK away for home defense
scroll way down to see specs and folded stock

December 27, 2009, 01:35 PM
If you're not gonna go all-out on accessories look into an AR-180B. And even then there's a couple companies that make railed fore-ends for it.

Simple to take apart, good accuracy, and take AR-15 magazines.

December 27, 2009, 01:38 PM
either is a good choice. However, as home defense I would be more comfortable with the less penetrative ability of 223. I would not want to kill a neighbor because a round went through my house and his. however, if corbon or others make 7.62x39 home defense loads then it is not an issue.