View Full Version : Super accurate Mosin Nagant
November 6, 2009, 03:05 AM
Is seems that more people swear _at_ Mosin Nagants than by them. I've read a lot of comments that they are pretty good if they can make a 3" or 4" group at 50 yards. They're cheap. But does _anybody_ say good things about them?
November 6, 2009, 03:12 AM
with russian ones you may get a good one you my get a piece of crap but for 80-100 dollers for a rifle that can shoot 3inchs why complian any the finn mosin nagants are actually very good they should all shoot under two inches they were so obseesed with accuracy that they would send them back to the armory if they didn't.
November 6, 2009, 03:31 AM
The carbines might make good truck rifles when you knock the bayonet off.
Any Nagant I've shot seemed to kick unreasonably hard w/ heavy ball ammo.
Many likely saw marginal maintenance. I've also read that many barrels were rechromed, further reducing whatever rifling was left.
But, the russians used select nagants as snipers, I've read some articles stating how attemtion was paid to bedding and they were shot for accuracy.
And the 54R cartridge, despite its age, is much a round, equal to the '06 in power, and the Soviets retained it in the SVD sniper
You can't beat the price of the rifles, and still, the ammo, these days.
November 6, 2009, 07:53 AM
JimL, I will say something good about them. I have 4 mosins and for a mbr they are great. The ones I like to the most is the Finn m39, m37, and 91/30. The 91/30 is a sniper repo. With the 3 above I can usually get 2" groups at 100 yards without much problem. They do tend to get what many call sticky bolt. A lot of times this is caused by the ammo but if you keep the chamber clean then that is not really a problem. The safety is not the greatest but again not that big of a deal. The other mosin I have is a m27 which is a beautiful shooter all by itself. Remember that the mosin was in use till around 1950 and can still be seen in combat in different parts of the world today.
November 6, 2009, 09:31 AM
finn mosin nagants are actually very good
They're the same thing, aren't they? When the Czar was out of power all the Finns used the very weapons the Russians left in the aresenal.
November 6, 2009, 09:57 AM
I believe that the only Russian parts the Finns used were the receivers. The barrel is heavier, trugger much better and the stock feels more like a Garand than a Russian Mosin stock. Overall the Finns are by far the best of the Mosins.
November 6, 2009, 10:21 AM
Finnish rifles were made to a higher standard. In general they are more accurate and some people with a m39 in good shape can get groups in the 1-1.5 MOA area.
they cost more, but are worth it.
At the same time it's possible to have a good russian manufactured rifle that shoots within 2 MOA. my m44 can shoot about a 2'' group at 100 yards.
November 6, 2009, 10:30 AM
I've never handloaded for mine and I've only shot various 40 year old surplus ammo... but it's a 3MOA rifle with surplus ammo for $69.
Interestingly, my Springfield M1A was a 3MOA rifle with surplus ammo... but it wasn't $69.:rolleyes:
That's good for shooting a pumpkin at 300 yards. And hitting it every time. At least until the barrel gets so hot that the heat mirage from the barrel messes up your sight picture.
One of these days I'll start loading for peak accuracy with this rifle. I have brass for it. I'd expect it to be good for at least 2MOA with the right load. I have no illusions of a 0.25MOA russian mosin... but I got a pretty good specimen.
November 6, 2009, 10:50 AM
my refurbed 91/30 can group about 4 inches at 100yds. (surplus ammo of course) the side to side measurement of the group was only 1.5in., with some better sights i could probable group it at about 2 in.
.300 Weatherby Mag
November 6, 2009, 11:53 AM
Overall the Finns are by far the best of the Mosins
I'm not going to argue about the quality of the Finns... But have you ever seen a Remington or Westinghouse Mosin?? Some of them can shoot very well... My Remington built m91 mosin shoots like a house of fire compared to most mosins...
November 6, 2009, 06:54 PM
Don't forget that most Mosins are fed surplus ammo, which will make even the best target rifle in the world perform like a POS. Buy (or handload!) some quality ammo and your groups should improve.
November 6, 2009, 07:33 PM
AIM has 91's for $79.99 right now .:D
November 6, 2009, 08:16 PM
91's or 91/30
November 6, 2009, 08:20 PM
I know nothing of whether they are good or not... but... I just bought one for 200 bucks with 660 rds of ammo included... checked on broker and could probably move the ammo alone for 300:D
November 6, 2009, 09:26 PM
Has anyone used silver bear ammo? I've only shot the laqured brown bear and surplus ammo.
November 6, 2009, 10:18 PM
I have a 1938 Isczivek 91/30 that I absolutely love. With the cheapest mil-surp nasty ammo I still get 5" groups at 100 yds. But I reload for it, and that's when things really get sweet. I'm getting it dialed in to hitting 2" groups reliably at 100 yds. so far and haven't even really had time to do any fine-tuning yet. So yes, there are good ones out there. Most of the cussing you're probably hearing are from the people who buy one expecting it to fire like a NIB current production rifle---and they won't. But if you spend the time dialing things in right, and baby things into place, and figure out what they like to eat and what they don't, they have potential for being a really sweet shooter. The fun is in the tuning. The reward is what you manage to get it to do. Not that I guarantee it will ever happen, but my goal with this one is to eventually be able to bring it to my 1000-meter range and have the possibility to ring a few gongs. It's never going to shoot like the rifles I built for that range, but I'm having fun stepping back to a little more old-school shooting with it.
November 6, 2009, 10:58 PM
They were not that accurate new much less 60 years and a world war later. Designed to be a mass produced, tough service rifle - which it is. It's also as accurate as designed to be . . . "minute of Nazi".
November 7, 2009, 01:24 AM
To true the Russian favored mass attack so individual marksmanship was not that important to them hit a human body at 150 yard was probably all they were asking for the Russian mosin nagant rifle was designed quantity way over quality the tool bit that bored out the barrels would be used from about .310 diameter till it hit close to .317 before they would change it with a new one so as not to wast the bit. Now the bullet in a 7.62 round is .311 talk about throwing a hotdog down a hallway lol. Now a the finns were totally different when the Finnish white guards kicked the commies out of Finland in 1917 after the Russian revolution they were all using the Russian m91 which they liked but after time they got worn out so what they did was reused the old russki m91 action modified the trigger made there own stock that would fit there needs and most importantly had new barrels made some in Switzerland now they also changed there ammunition the dt166 round the case was pretty much the same but it used a .3095 diameter bullet the early finn rifles pre m39 had .3085 diameter barrels but when the m39 cam out they switched to .310 so they could use captured ammo and there own they were also not so stingy on the machine bit for drilling out the rifling of the barrel.they were also obsessed with accuracy all there rifles had to shoot at least 2 moa or it was considered unfit for service and sent to be fixed most Finnish solders were also experienced outdoorsmen. so with russian nagants give them a good once over definitely don't buy it if its counter bored look down the barrel bring a bore snake with you if its horribly pitted or the hole in the end of the barrel just looks big for some reason don't buy it these are good was to look for a good rusky mosin I've had five 91/30's an m38 and an m38 and all turned out great except one of the 91/30's had a bore that slugged .315 but it turned out to be a very rare date and configuration at least according to 7.62x54r mosin i cant remember the site but its a 1941 dated tula on a 1941 dated ishtveck high wall receiver they said there's only three examples confirmed buy collectors well I have a fourth
November 7, 2009, 05:22 AM
my best grouping was 2" at 100yrds. with Sellier&Bellot 174gr,ammo.out of my 1929 91/30. out of the 4 that i have she shoots the best,with my 91/59 carbine a close 2nd. With good quality ammo it will make a world of difference.my .02
November 7, 2009, 05:32 AM
I seen a guy break 5" clay targets at 110 yards shooting while standing with a russian M44. Made me think about mosins a bit.
November 7, 2009, 07:40 AM
M 91 /30 s have a long history . It served Russia well during the defense of Stalingrad and the push towards Berlin. I love mine. The ammo is still cheap in today's high prices. Might as well get them before they are all gone.
November 7, 2009, 01:58 PM
In the workbench forum on guboards there is an article on accurizing.
November 7, 2009, 04:16 PM
I have 4-- well an M44, an M91/30 and 2 Type 53s (Chinese M44s)-- the M44s were designed to fire with the bayo out-- I was told, but either way, it shoots sub 3" off the bench at 100 yards with the right ammo-- the 91/30 actually is harder to shoot to me- -the barrel looks good, but I assume the rifling is not as good as on the 44s...the Chinese Type 53s are actually the best shooting-- I got them off Omega for $35 each were the best suprise-- they were corn cob rough and actually had hay sticking out of them and gunked up with a haphazard cosmo coating..I spent a whole saturday cleaning them up, and besides no bluing and rough stocks (which I Pledged) I got them Headspaced checked, and both passed--
The actions on both are butter smooth, and they shoot the best groups out of the four..
Who would have thunk it? The 2 Chinese ones are in the middle...
November 7, 2009, 04:45 PM
Mine was a Westinghouse. My friend's was a Remington. We bought them for $20 ea at a surplus store and brought them home on a city bus when we were in high school. The guy told us they were Argentine Mausers. We bought a hundred rds of ammo each that looked clean but many of the cases were cracked. Some was so bad that the bullets fell out. I didn't know any better so I stuck them back in and fired them. Never had any problems thank God.
November 7, 2009, 07:28 PM
i swear by the mosin m91 when it comes to hunting, its the only rifle i own, i haven taken, hogs, deer, elk, moose and brown bear with it, and cmon, good enough to blow nazi faces off.
only thing i swear AT with the mosin is the dad gum recoil, pain in the ass, i mean the shoulder...
November 7, 2009, 09:22 PM
..."they were corn cob rough and actually had hay sticking out of them and gunked up with a haphazard cosmo coating..."
My M44 had hair inside it when i got it. :confused:
I don't really want to know what was going on, but I cleaned it all out with the cosmo.
Lol. Maybe it killed some Nazis with the bayonet? I wish.
November 8, 2009, 02:50 PM
My M44 is absolutely horrible...........in looks. Has several cracks in the stock (they were repaired...kinda), stains, rust, dents, and chunks missing. The bore looks like it should be the surface of the moon........HUGE and very plentifull craters (not pitting, they are craters) and rust as well. Overall, the gun looks like somebody dropped it in a lake for a few days, then sent it to tumble dry inside cement mixer. However, despite the "character" in its looks, it shoots superbly. I shoot .308, .310, and .312 diameter bullets in handloads, as well as whatever dirt cheap factory/surplus I can find, and it is point of POA=POI out to 400+ yds. No holdover for elevation, just pull on the target and shoot. Now, at that distance, we aren't talking 2" or 3" groups, but with the rusty old iron sights and crappy bore, you can put every round into a paper plate at 400 yards. For a 65 year old gun, that looks like it was never cared for a day in its life.......i think it does pretty good.
November 8, 2009, 04:22 PM
I can break clays pretty regularly with my 91/30 @ 100yds or so, that's good enough for me.
November 8, 2009, 10:10 PM
My M44 could shoot inside 1" at 50 yards all day using iron sights and Bulgarian 147 gr. surplus. When I put on a red dot optic on it I was able to do the same at 100 yards. Getting that M44 was the best $90 I have ever spent on a firearm. An excellent hunting rifle, fun and cheap to shoot, and felt really special to hold bearing in mind it was made in 1945.
Its too bad it was stolen from me about 10 days ago. :(
November 17, 2009, 05:43 PM
I use my PU sniper for hunting coyotes, and have used it for shooting prairie dogs. It is accurate enough, but it there are better choices.
For some reason I just seem to shoot mine well.
November 18, 2009, 06:54 AM
There is considerable information on Finnish Mosin-Nagants at www.jaegerplatoon.net. The writer on that website, who seems to be Finnish, was generous with the shortcomings of Finnish made rifles. They were never able to produce enough of their own and used more Russian made rifles than their own before it was over. Some models (there were several) were too finely made or made from substandard materials and did not stand up too well to front line service. These problems also applied to other Finnish made weapons and often as not, Russian models were preferred when they could get them, in spite of their own shortcomings. Apparently a front line soldier wants a weapon that is rugged and reliable before anything else.
The website is incredibly detail with respect to numbers of weapons acquired, lost and ultimate disposition, including artillery and sometimes ammunition.
November 18, 2009, 07:35 AM
My M44 might not be terribly accurate, but it _is_ an easy rifle to shoot. Similar to the TT-33 in this regard, now that I think of it.
Of course, you've gotta wonder what they were thinking with sights that go out to like 1500 yards.
November 18, 2009, 10:12 AM
November 18, 2009, 10:43 AM
There is nothing in the design of the Mosin that makes it inaccurate. Any issue's it has can be fixed and I'm sure that you can turn one into a sub-moa gun. But why, just buy a better gun in the first place. Some people want to think they are accurate "enough" the way they come but some of the groups are laughable. Some of the other groups are pipe dreams. If you buy a Mosin it will not be super accurate. It will take 100's of dollars to get it "super accurate" and then you end up with an accurate club.
November 18, 2009, 12:10 PM
I would say they're accurate enough
:confused: For what?
November 18, 2009, 12:59 PM
With enough practice and knowledge about how the gun shoots, it doesn't take a million bucks, just a few here and there. The benefit of doing this is that you have a relatively accurate rifle that costs 1/3 the price to shoot compared to a comparable .308 or 30-06. Accurate enough means you can hit a 1000 yard gong with factory ammo.
November 18, 2009, 03:58 PM
But why, just buy a better gun in the first place.
Any competent shooter can fork over the bucks for a NIB Savage or Remi and produce nice, tight grouping. If that's your thing, go for it. For some of us, part of the fun is taking an old Mil Surp rifle that groups Minute-Of-Volkswagon and seeing just how well we can tune it in. Kinda like buying a new Mustang vs. rebuilding something much older for the simple pleasure of seeing what you can do with it. I, for one, enjoy the rebuild.
November 18, 2009, 06:23 PM
I've personally got a 91/30 1942 Ishevik (I think that's how it's spelt[edit: I know that priorly I said it was a Tula, but I was mistaken. I got the markings backwards]) with a bright bore, no pitting and a decent crown. Now... I'm not shooting surplus ammo, I'm shooting brown bear 185gr and Wolf 145gr FMJ ammo. I do about 1.5 MOA.
November 19, 2009, 08:18 AM
91/30 produced in the USSR in 1942. Just a blast to shoot, and super accurate up to about 100 yds just holding it. All the numbers match. Still have to fire it out of a rest to check how accurate it is at longer distances.
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