Feral dog "hunting" questions

[rickdavis81]

Some of our friends have had some of their smaller dogs attacked by a pack of wild dogs here lately. One of their whippets is at the vet right now, has his skull punctured, and probaly won't make it. It's supposedly a pack of 4 or 5 and all they could currently tell me is that they look like "wolves". I'm guessing just medium sized mutts. The neighbors have spotted them also and have lost some calves to them they believe.
My question is what would you bait them with? Would my electronic coyote calls work? I've hunted coyotes quite a bit and I've dispatched a few stray trouble animals before but never purposely tried to hunt dogs. Any tips or suggestions. They own 40 acres and I'm not sure about there neighbors. One of my friends lives across the black top with 100 acres and I can hunt there if needed. It's where I target shoot anyway. So I have a little bit of land to cover all with extreme willing permission. Any tips or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

[cornbush]

A good scoped 223 is the bet advice I can give. Bait is going to bring in all the skunks, possums, cats and who knows what else.

[cornbush]

You could try a puppy distress call, even domesticated dogs will usually investigate what sounds like a hurt pup.

[rickdavis81]

I'm thinking I'll leave the AR at home and take my .308. Little more oomph. I'll have to try the puppy sound. I thought about tying up the neighbors cat.:rolleyes:

[fisherman66]

I thought about tying up the neighbors cat.

Never a bad idea. I'd consider that even if there wasn't a pack of feral dogs terrorizing the neighborhood. :D Okay, okay, just teasing.

[schutzen]

Road kill deer relocated to an area suitable for shooting.

[hogdogs]

While feral cats are fair game in florida, Dogs are not.
they must be attacking. Would be an immediate risk of arrest to call in feral dogs to be killed.
Brent

[flyguyskt]

i know in some counties of South Dakota you can kill tame collared dogs if they are bothering livestock! i bet missouri is the same but check

[Smokey Joe]

in my area is SOMEBODY'S property.

Therefore, shooting the dog is destruction of private property. It's illegal to let a dog just run loose, and the owner is responsible for the damage done by their dog, but it's also illegal to shoot a loose dog.

Catch-22. And good luck finding the owner and making a claim stick.

I agree w/ Flyguy SKT and Hogdogs. Check on the local laws before shooting dogs.

(Of course, there's always the SSS* rule, but I don't advocate illegal behavior.)

*Shoot, Shovel, and Shut Up

[davlandrum]

Road kill deer relocated to an area suitable for shooting.

That is a whole additional set of regs to research.

I'd first try animal control and see if they would come trap them. Although with budget cuts, they might just tell you they won't come. Then I would eliminate the problem.

I know it is a crazy thought, but maybe dog food.....:p

[fisherman66]

I'd still tie up the neighbor's cat just for the bedevilment of it.:p

[barnetmill]

If the pack is truly feral garbage, dog food, road kill (dead anything), and any other source of food. A bitch in heat always works. Dog packs are active at night and spot lights might work. Carry a sidearm and a big knife since dog packs will attack people. Use the same calls you would use for a coyote. A 223 should be enough gun for most feral dogs since most are less than 100 lbs.

[Daryl]

Having had to deal with this...

If you REALLY want to solve the issue, set a few Victors or Sterlings, and carry a rifle loaded with .22 shorts.

Use fox/coyote/dog urine on a fence post/weed/whatever as an attractant. Heck, take your own dog with you, and where (s)he pees, set a trap.

The feral dogs step in a trap, and you shoot them between the eyes with the .22 short.

It's quiet, subtle, and very effective.


If you just want to do it for the heck of doing it, then go out and set up the caller and call them in. Or, set out baits that they'll clean up at night when you aren't watching. You'll get a few, but they'll get wise to your ways and then they'll be even harder for the next person to deal with.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

Daryl

[simonkenton]

I love dogs.
I have two pet dogs, they are part of the family.


But...

I was up in north Georgia, building a house for my Mom. This was out in the country.
Every day I took my little Beagle up there, she just hung around the house while I worked.
One neighbor came over, he said a pack of dogs had killed his chickens. The lead dog was a big, ugly chow, he said.
Another neighbor came over, said a pack of dogs had killed his little Pomeranian dog.
He said the lead dog was a big, ugly chow.

These guys kept talking about calling animal control. Hell, there was no animal control in that county.
I figured my little Beagle was next to die.
My Dad had moved some stuff into the house, including a double barrel 20 gauge. He had some number 8 shot.
I knew how devastating close range birdshot was, from having seen so many people killed with it when I was a Paramedic.
I patterened that gun, 3 inches low at 20 feet.
Every morning, I loaded that shotgun and set it by the door.

Sure enough, 4 days later, here came a pack of 4 dogs, lead by a big ugly chow. They moved right in on my little Beagle, and she was smart enough to run under my truck.
That chow would charge at the truck, and growl. He was trying to flush my little Beagle. No doubt he would have killed her.
From the doorway, 20 feet away, I leveled the 20 gauge at the chow.
The other 3 dogs saw me, and they backed up a step, they knew something was wrong.
The chow kept lunging at my truck.
I fired, and it was astonishing. It blew the dog away. It was like in the movies, the dog was blown to the ground, like the earth was jerked from underneath him.
I went right up to him, he was graveyard dead. I didn't even need the second barrel.
The other 3 mutts had hauled ass, thus the drawback of birdshot, no good on a 30 yard shot.

I drove 1/2 mile away, and threw that chow into a giant, 50 foot wide briar patch. I swung the 60 pound dog around in a circle, like a discus thrower, and let fly. He landed in the middle of the patch, not visible unless you crawled into the middle of the briars.
Like Clint Eastwood said, "Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms."
I went back and washed the blood from my truck.

I Shut Up, and told no one about my work on the Neighborhood Safety Patrol.
Every time I think about that, I get a little smile. In spite of my affection for dogs, I did the world a favor that day.
No more chickens, or dogs got killed.

So, I guess you could stake out a little Beagle, that would draw the murderous dog pack.

[hardluk1]

Talk to your fish and game officers and sherrifs. We had a problem with ferral dogs some years back and after some problems were noted all hunters were had the right to shot at dog packs if you felt threatend. It did take some time to cull them down . Shotgun works real well with 4 buck if you have one thats patternd for longer range. Might get several at a setting if they come in. Treat them like coyotes, they will come if in the area. This was in sw fl. Our pack had poodles ,muts, up to sheperds and black and tans. Just a mix of what people did not take care of. Just watch the high velocity guns around houses, a 22 solid will kill ,just slower.

[tyrajam]

I use an eloctronic game call for coyotes, and recently I was hunting across from a farm house. After a few dying rabbit sequences, I switched cards and played the coyote/grey fox fighting card. Sounded like a dogfight, and I swear there were three farm dogs withing 50 feet in about 20 seconds. These dogs went crazy over that fight sound. Thats the first thing Iwould try to bring in a pack of dogs.

I've never shot a dog and don't want to, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

[flyguyskt]

i dont like the 22 lr unless you hit right in the head...NO animal deserves to suffer. they were put out by owners and are trying to survive...some humans do however deserve to suffer(whole other story).

so if you need to be rid of them, do your part as a decent human and make it humane!

[rickdavis81]

Animal control by goverment employees is non existant out here. And I'm a firm believer of SSS. I know the .223 will be enough but there isn't such thing as enough gun so I figure the .308 will be better. But the faster followup on the AR would be nice. Wish the wife wouldn't get mad if I bought a AR10:D I'm thinking dog food for a few days along with road kill and then set up on them with the electronic caller. Probaly put out some game cams too. The husband thinks it might be a "big cat" which I'm skeptical but who knows. THat would be a whole 'nother level though.

[hogdogs]

Bacon grease soaked into poly sponges works well for a bait.... And if you miss after they eat it.... "Dog Gone" you still ain't gonna have them back after a few days...
Brent

[bdturner]

Before you start shooting domestic dogs (non coyotes) you may wish to check to see if there is a law against shooting them. We used to have a bunch of wild dogs here but the coyotes took them out and have not seen any wild "domestic" dogs in years. On the other hand they are not hard to kill. I have dropped several wild dogs using CCI Stingers. Almost all were shot just one time.

[700REM]

Get caught doing this in Tx-straight to jail you go.With all the coyotes in the world-why shoot dogs.If its a matter of dogs roaming your property-then catch them in live traps and release them elsewhere.JMO

[rickdavis81]

Here you don't go to jail for shooting them. And catching them in a live trap, for one you risk being bit. And I'm not a fan of rabies shots, I hate needles. And releasing elsewhere just turns the problem over to someone else. WHile I shoot .22's alot I'm not a fan of using them on bigger stuff if I don't have too. And I'm not sport shooting them. I'm eradicating a problem that's been hurting other house dogs and livestock. The whippett is back home after a few nights at the vet. Looks like he should pull thru but he's not out of the woods yet.

[Daryl]

Get caught doing this in Tx-straight to jail you go.With all the coyotes in the world-why shoot dogs.If its a matter of dogs roaming your property-then catch them in live traps and release them elsewhere.JMO


My mom's suffering from a similar issue with dogs. They aren't feral, but instead belong to a neighbor. They've attacked her livestock, yet trying to prove that is pretty tough.

They've also shown aggression towards my mother and her husband.

We've contacted animal control...twice; two days between the two calls. We were also told by them that one of the best ways to deal with it was to just shoot the offending dog(s).

Trapping a dog and then releasing it elsewhere only puts the problem elsewhere for someone else to deal with. That is, if it doesn't come back. Leaving a dog to survive in the wild isn't a good option, no matter how "warm and fuzzy" it may make one feel about not shooting it. One of these dogs is a pit bull, so where should we turn it loose? Want it near YOUR house, so it can come play with your kids?

No? I didn't think so.

I don't know about tx, but Arizona's laws on such things are pretty unambiguous. If the dog is loose and causing damage to livestock, or threatening people, then you can and should "end the threat" by doing away with the dog.

And bear in mind that I love dogs. I have 5 of my own, and each one of them is, right now at this moment (without me having to look) in their kennel minding their own business and not causing problems for my neighbors.

I have little tollerance for dogs that run loose, chase livestock, and threaten young children and older ladies, while their owners do nothing to stop the problem. I don't have to wait for the dog to kill someone or their pet; I just end the threat it poses in the area.

If it stays home then there is no issue. I'll not call or bait if from it's own property. If it crosses the fenceline of it's own accord, then I end the threat. Again, there is no need to wait 'till the thing kills my mother or her animals.

Daryl

[Art Eatman]

Unless the Texas legislature has changed the laws in recent years, feral dogs in Texas are fair game. In any rural area, any stray dog on one's land has no protection beyond the opinion and judgement of the landowner.

One dog with a collar, just traipsing through, is likely no problem. Any group of dogs, with or without collars, is a problem looking for an opportunity.

People will drive right past an animal shelter/dog pound to throw away the unwanted bow-wow. That generally leads to a dead dog, whether by starvation or a bullet. A house cat can generally survive in the wild--until I shoot him--but a house dog generally won't.

We had a wild pack of feral dogs; about a dozen of them. They'd been seen pulling down a deer, and had been driven away from a colt. I popped a couple of big long-legged hound-types. Looking them over, they were pretty much gaunted. But, in a desert, a pack has to cover a lot of ground for not much available prey...

[GeauxTide]

Had a Cur digging up my yard, going after my Dachsunds and chasing me on my lawn mower. Neighbor thought it was funny. Caught up with her in a remote area and put the pipe to her. If a dog is collared with ID, I hold, if not...........

[Scorch]

They've attacked her livestock, yet trying to prove that is pretty tough.
They've also shown aggression towards my mother and her husband.
In any state I have ever lived in, including CA, that right there would be enough reason to shoot them. My brother shot a neighbor's dog that was harassing livestock, then called animal control to pick up the carcass. They did, then charged the owner for the privilege. Too bad my brother doesn't shoot very fast, he could have had two of them.
Get caught doing this in Tx-straight to jail you goI'm going to go along with Art on this one. Not trying to start an argument, but in every state I have ever lived in (7 Western states so far), shooting an animal to prevent damage to livestock or domestic animals will not get you arrested, fined, cited, or even noticed. LiveRanchers, farmers, and their lobbyists would have none of that, and up until very recently they pretty much set the rules.

[sc928porsche]

Trap them in a live trap. Then deliver them to the pound. That takes care of all the legalities.

[hardluk1]

People that think dogs don't break bad in a group need to spend a bit of time around a feral dog pack . They will make a coyote pack seem tame by all other comparisons. Also coyotes if there packs get same will mate dogs and bring them into the pac and the offspring can look like anything but a normal dog or coyote. Much more like a mutt. Anyone that hunts around al or ge knows what i mean about the mutt look. Blond, black any color but the typical coyote picture. So you see a pack of mutts running loose contact your fish and game or sherrif let them know about them and start kill'n. In areas the ranchers carry rifles year round just for them. And like said before a 22 will work or shotgun does just fine if near homes.

[Art Eatman]

"Trap them in a live trap."

You live in town?

Have you ever checked the price of the largest "Hav-A-Hart"? They're only raccoon sized. They don't give them away, either.

If you're gonna trap, setting three or four #4 Victors under some bait hanging from a tree limb works real good.

[W. C. Quantrill]

The big problem any more is that people dont know how to keep their mouth shut. Shoot, shovel, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. End of problem.

[hogdogs]

You can't touch a dog size live trap for under $150.00 bucks!
Since it constitutes a home made dangerous weapon/ gun and the barrel is nonexistent I won't detail the construction of a 12 gauge/rat trap device....
Works real nice at point blank range.
Brent

[Tuckahoe]

Are you sure these are not coy dogs? That could change things. In NC you can shoot dogs if being attacked or they are killing or attempting to kill your livestock.

[hogdogs]

In florida, A dog is a dog.... A yote is a yote.... A coy dog could be claimed a property of a person. While they may face a 250 dollar fine, You risk buying all the unborn offspring. Sure, if said dog is attacking than fine but if no evidence exists, 10 years at $1,000 per puppy twice per year and 8 per litter is a bunch of money if you lose.....
Brent

[700REM]

Yep-Same here.Aint got nothing to do with no legistlature.Its done by county.Or it is here anyways.You get caught shooting one and you better have some money to pay the tree huggers cause they will be after you.Happen to a friend and his chickens and I aint talkin no egg chickens-I am talkin Livestock Show chickens,he shot two of them so called feral dogs,cost him right at 1500.00.End of story.

[Daryl]

On coy-dogs...

I've hunted coyotes for over 30 years (actually, closer to 33 years), and I've yet to see a coyote that looked like anything but a coyote. I see a domestic dog loose often enough, but they're obviously used to humans and are domesticated pooches.

Feral dogs around here hang out in areas at the edge of town, and beg scraps from those who'll share. Some get adopted by tender hearted folks, but I suspect that most eventually starve. The desert is a harsh environment to dump your pet into.

Now, having shot well over 1000 coyotes in my years of hunting/calling them, I can honestly say that I've NEVER seen a coy-dog. Coyotes look like coyotes, and exhibit the characteristics of coyotes (walk with tail down rather than up, and so forth). Dogs exhibit the characteristics of dogs (tail up, friendly towards people, and so forth).

I know that it's biologically possible for them to interbreed, but I suspect that because of their natural activities, habits, and characteristically suspicious nature towards dogs, that it's almighty rare for a coyote to breed a dog, or for a dog to breed a coyote. In fact, I've some SERIOUS doubts about a bitch coyote letting a dog breed her. To understand my doubts, you'd have to study up on coyote habits though; they aren't typical dogs by any stretch of the wildest imagination. They don't have the same breeding habits, nor do they raise their young the same way a dog does.

Not saying it can't happen, but that it's almighty rare. I've shot an awful lot of coyotes in areas inhabited by both coyotes AND dogs, and I've yet to ever see a coy-dog...ever.

Daryl

[700REM]

Daryl;
where are you located ??

[Suwannee Tim]

I'm astonished by hogdog. He vehemently claims that it is illegal to shoot trespassing dogs, it is not. He makes reference to making a trap out of a 12 gauge shotgun which is a second degree felony in Florida, you can get life in prison for making or possessing. Some people make it up as they go, hogdog is one and he ain't very good at it. My guess is he lets his dogs run the neighborhood.

I have lost count of the dogs I have killed and I have gone to court once, the civil lawsuit was dismissed, I whacked two very expensive afghan hounds to earn that. I killed a dog as a Jacksonville Sheriff's officer watched. I have killed several dogs as the owners watched, dont' do this unless it is really necessary. I killed a champion AKC registered doberman worth thousands of dollars, the owner of the dog called the Sheriff's office, the Sheriff of Clay County himself, Jennings Muhree responded (he rode patrol one day a week), told the owner all he could do was sue me. He didn't sue me. Two days later I watch one of Sheriff Murhee's officers kill three dogs serving a warrant. No big deal.

You have to know the local law, both state, county and municipal ordinance as the case may be, and you might be sued which is rare. It can cost you some money which is rare.

Do what you need to do and keep your mouth shut.

You can chum up any feral dog with dog food, makes it easy.

223 will do the job just fine. I use a handgun or 22, a lot of times a 22 to the back of the head as they are in a live trap. If the dog has an owner, a 22 short will force the owner to pay a big vet bill, he may learn something. It's only illegal if you get caught.

By far the best way to deal with dogs is to trap them, turn them over to the local dog catcher, or not as the case may be. Most animal control agencies will loan you a trap.
Heart of the Earth Products makes good traps, I have a 48D, it gets used regularly.

http://www.animal-traps.com/animal-trap-folding-dog-tc.html

A couple of these are handy:

http://www.animal-traps.com/animal-trap-covers-dividers.html#dividers

[guntotin_fool]

start raising hogs, feral Dogs LOVE the harrowing barn, I must have shot 25 over the years trying to sneak in to the barn and snatch a squealing piglet.

Killing a pet and killing a feral dog is two different things, one is threat, one is a pest. I tried hard to never shoot a collared dog, it happened, but only after they broke the rules and tried or succeeded in grabbing what they should have left alone.

I Have never met a tree hugger who freaked out less by seeing a feral dog shot, than being attacked by a dog pack when they were hiking.

[Art Eatman]

A round trip to my nearest "local" dog-catcher is eight gallons of gasoline. IOW, there's no "one size fits all" in this deal.

As far as generalizing about "feral" dogs: Don't get carried away. A friend of mine living just outside of Georgetown, Texas, lost sheep to feral dogs. He managed to shoot a couple of them. Both had collars, and one of the dogs--a Collie mix--had been at home in town just that morning.

[Suwannee Tim]

I don't make any distinction between feral and domestic. I have never seen a feral dog that I considered very dangerous but I have seen dozens of very dangerous domestic dogs. Neither tree huggers or animal rights wackos get upset over the humane killing of feral dogs, the owners can get really upset when you whack their "puppy." Keep your dogs off my property and off public property and I won't kill your dog.

[hardluk1]

Daryl A lease we hunted in al was also looked over bio the fish and game bio to get your doe tags and he was the one that confermed the coy-dogs in that area and to shoot all we could. Those did act much more like coyotes in there travel but i never saw many coyotes trqvel in the day light hours in a pack, Them sucker travels day and night in a loose pack just don't sound on each other as much as regular coy pack does at night. We were hunting between clayton and eufalia al.
Suwanee Tim, When i lived in sw fl i had a nieghbor that had 3 dogs that ran loose 2 sheps and i mutt, and they could be a pain. We had laws that you had to keep your dog leashed if not hunting . One night or screen porch cats came running in, my wife went to see what was up and opened the door to those 3 ****** off dogs. I got a 357 with rat shoot and fire all 6 rounds at them as they hauled butt. Then called the owner,, Reminded him of our leash law and told him if his dogs came back on my property and growled at anyone i would kill themand put them on his door step. Then asked if he had a problem with that and he said no. Turns out he was the ass. district attorney jerry brock..His brother was the DA. Glad i never went to court for anything. He did get rid of his dogs instead of makeing a run or fence in his yard. Guy had horses and money. O well.

[Suwannee Tim]

A couple of succinct thoughts, the best and easiest way to do this is trap them and whack them with a 22. Dump the carcass on the side of the road, looks like road kill. Keep quiet.

[roy reali]

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/armpusstatedoglaws.htm
Go to the above website. Click on a state then go through the dog regulations. You will find each state's laws concerning shooting stray and/or feral dogs.

[hogdogs]

Roy,
Linky no worky for me.
Brent

[roy reali]

Try again. I fixed it.

[Daryl]

Daryl;
where are you located ??


I'm in Southeast Arizona, about 20 miles southwest of Tombstone.

Some of the best calling country to be found.

Daryl

[Daryl]

Hardluk1

Bear in mind that I didn't say it CAN'T happen; only that in my experience, it's VERY unlikely.

A lot of people say "coy-dog", and later find out it's just a wild mutt.

I've seen people claim lion attacks on their horse, when the legs were chewed up and the sign showed it to be dogs. Lions do not attack the legs of it's prey.

I've seen a lot of people claim damage done by coyotes, when in reality it was dogs.

Not that coyotes, mt lions and such don't cause problems once in a while, but many folks would rather talk about "coy-dogs" or "mt lions" than "someone's mutt". People sensationalize things, and many times they're wrong. Some biologists are just as guilty of this at times, from what I've seen.

If a biologist said "coy-dog", I'd be tempted to ask to see blood sample verification. It's certainly possible, but I know an awful lot about coyotes, and I strongly suspect it's not as common as many would like to believe.

Again, yes, it's biologically possible, and I'm sure it can happen, but out of the many, many coyotes I've seen up close and personal, I've never seen it.

If it were common at all, we'd have lost the coyote as a species many years ago. The blood lines would be so contaminated with mutt blood that the coyote would no longer exist in it's native form. But the coyote still exists, and is very much surviving in a world that's getting tougher all the time.

Daryl

[hogdogs]

Suwanee, You are dead wrong about me.
I stated it is against florida law to shoot a dog not attacking or posing an immediate threat of attack. I also mentioned that the 12 gauge rat trap is out there. I didn't suggest folks make one nor did I suggest instruction on how to do so. I did also mention the bacon grease on a poly sponge. I did not say I was one who feels you should leave feral dogs alone. I simply stated that random hunting of domestic dogs is not legal here.

You are also dead wrong about my dogs roaming the neighborhood. One of highly regarded TFL members who is a regular reader of this section may pipe up if he wishes that I do have some house dogs that go outdoors off lead but are hardly roaming the neighborhood which is no less than 5 acre wooded places. I also maintain many dogs in my "dog yard" of 10-15 foot chains.

If a stray so much as shows me his teeth he is skating on the thinnest of ice....
If he breeds to my gyps, I will let the owner of the male know I expect them to buy all the feed. If they refuse I give them a knuckle samich.
So you may choose to stand down before you make too many claims about who you know nothing about!
Brent

[Ian0351]

Roy:
Thanks for the link... I now know that should anything ever happen here in WA, I am free and clear to take care of my problem. I would probably use a shotgun, since I live in the burbs.

[Kishido]

Had a Cur digging up my yard, going after my Dachsunds and chasing me on my lawn mower. Neighbor thought it was funny. Caught up with her in a remote area and put the pipe to her. If a dog is collared with ID, I hold, if not.........


Okay now I'm pretty sure doing away with neighbors is frowned upon by most states.....sadly :D

[JAYBIRD78]

The big problem any more is that people dont know how to keep their mouth shut. Shoot, shovel, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. End of problem.

+1 to this. I'm not a hunter and I don't usually go around killing animals. However on occasion I have "taken care of" some pests within populated areas. ;) ;)

Just be smart about it, if your in town consider using shorts or subsonic 22s or air rifle. Don't be aiming at your pests with the neighbors kids playing in the background. :eek:

Hell, I have an aunt who was damn near anti gun until she had some coons in her decorative pond. She still has a air rifle of mine, now that I think about it.

Good luck.

[Willie Lowman]

I know it is a crazy thought, but maybe dog food.....

That's how I do it. Put a can of Alpo or something on a paper plate and go sit behind my AR-15. 55gr. JHPs kill dogs dead.

I will say that I don't put the bait out till I know the dog I want to kill is near my house. I don't go out of my way to get 'em. The dog food just makes them stand still long enough to get a clean shot.

[thallub]

People will drive right past an animal shelter/dog pound to throw away the unwanted bow-wow. That generally leads to a dead dog, whether by starvation or a bullet.


Same thing happens in this part of OK. Lots of dogs get turned loose here to hassle livestock, pets and game. All but the big mean ones soon become coyote food. The big ones get shot pretty quick.

[Nnobby45]

I'm not making excuses for dogs running loose, but some good pets can become vicious when running with other dogs. Not disimilar with what happens when a group of teens get together and get destructive even though, as individuals, they seem like good kids.

Chances are that each dog is someone's pet and "such a good dog" when at home curled up on the couch.

Not saying that true feral dogs in packs don't exist, or that delinquent pets can't be just as destructive.

[hardluk1]

Daryl at this point i don't give a damnd what you believe. Mutt, coyote or mix. I will beleive a state pay'd bio over your intuition. I am also the only person i know that has killed coyotes, at least they looked like the real thing, with a bow on several hunting trips in georgia for deer. But maybe a better get tested results. jeeesss I should have took pictures.

[Nanuk]

I used to hunt Feral dogs in the Army. They are fairly easy to find, in that, they roam on the roads and trails (path of least resistance). A good 223 is plenty, I use a 55 Nosler BT on anything up the big deer we have here.

[Daryl]

Hardpuk,

Believe whatever the flip you want; it's no skin off my back.

You're as entitled to repeat foolish BS as the next fella is.

You want to make your point? Show me a picture of a coy-dog from the wild. Better yet, maybe a picture of a pack of them? I'm rather curious as to what one looks like. Dogs and coyotes are everywhere these days, so it's not like I'm asking for a picture of bigfoot. If coyotes breed with dogs, it shouldn't be too hard to find several pictures, right? Of course, proof that it has coyote blood in it would strengthen your argument.

I guarantee I've shot more with a rifle than you have with a bow...or anything else in georgia.

Seriously, I've never even seen a picture of one that could be proven to be a coy-dog. Hunters kill coyotes and post the pictures on the 'net pretty frequently. Why can't I find a good picture of a proven coy-dog?

Daryl

[fineredmist]

Feral dogs can be a serious problem. I was in the Army back in the 60s and some bases had real problems with the "dogs left behind" by servicemen being sent overseas. Packs of ferals would raid trash barrels in housing areas and attack pets left outdoors. It got to the point where MP patrols were issued shotguns to take care of the problem. The dead ferals were taken to the base Vet for examination and it was not uncommon to find some of them were rabid. The City of Hartford Ct. had the same problem with feral dogs some 20 years back and animal control trapped and "disposed" of them.
A pack of hungry feral dogs is nothing to be taken lightly, they are very dangerous.

[Art Eatman]

Knock off the personal stuff. I find it to be underwhelming.

The only coy-dogs of which I know first-hand had coyote sires. Momma was a house dog. The pups were locally in demand as yard-guards. But this was just two litters, and maybe 20 years back.

What we've found, these last 30 or so years, is that occasionally a group of three or four coyotes will come past a house where there is a yard dog. If the yard dog is lured out by the smell of a bitch in heat, shame on him; it's a one-time event. I doubt that anybody knows whether this is deliberate or "just happens", but it's been written about for over a hundred years.

[roy reali]

Coy-dogs are not a problem here, we have to worry about Hougars. They are a cross between house cats and wild cougars, hence the name, Hougars. Fortunately our Badgers haven't taken to fornicating with any of our domestic animals yet! Could you imagine what a Bamster would look like!!!:eek:

[treg]

Several of the dogs we've had to deal with around here were the result of townies that move out and let thier dogs roam, "like they did in the wild" or "just like nature intended". If the owner is known or a collar with ID is present the prefered method is to catch them and have the county take them to the pound - 50 miles away. The result is an educated (less ignorant) owner that had to spend time and money to retrieve thier dog, pay fines and veterinary costs. Being how this is both fun and effective I have plans and materials for a large towable live trap, should be done by fall.

[hardluk1]

Art Eatman atleast one guy around here knows coy-dogs are real to some extent even if only a regional area. Try to control the bs till i find someone that closed minded. sorry if your offended

[Daryl]

The only coy-dogs of which I know first-hand had coyote sires. Momma was a house dog. The pups were locally in demand as yard-guards. But this was just two litters, and maybe 20 years back.

What we've found, these last 30 or so years, is that occasionally a group of three or four coyotes will come past a house where there is a yard dog. If the yard dog is lured out by the smell of a bitch in heat, shame on him; it's a one-time event. I doubt that anybody knows whether this is deliberate or "just happens", but it's been written about for over a hundred years.


Art,

If you read over my posts, this goes right along with what I said. I have serious doubts about a bitch coyote letting a dog breed her. I'm sure it can happen, but it's almighty rare.

A litter of dog pups sired by a male coyote is more likely, yet still very rare. They're generally raised/dealt with in captivity by a dog as the mother, and aren't the problem many folks like to believe. They're usually about half wild and tend to be shy, but they aren't necessarily agressive unless cornered. In fact, some reports are that they don't make good watch dogs because they don't bark much, and tend to hide rather than show aggression towards an intruder.

I've no doubt that it can and has happened, but I also know it's very rare in the wild. "Packs of coy-dogs" rampaging an area is a nearly non-existent concern.

I've spent a lot of time over many years in the outdoors, and my primary focus over much of that time afield has been hunting coyotes. When you spend that much time interested in a critter and their habits, you invariably learn a bit about them. I've never in my life seen anything resembling a coy-dog in the wild. I once knew of a litter of pups that I suspected might have been sired by a coyote, but that was never checked to prove it one way or the other. The litter was mothered by a captive mutt that was very friendly, and the pups were never (as far as I know) tamed to the point of becoming decent pets.

BUT, they were raised in captivity, were not a problem in the wild, and never showed any aggression towards a person that I'm aware of. They'd hide rather than show any aggression at all.

As I've said over and over, I've no doubt it's possible, and I'm even fairly sure it's happened in the wild, but it's mighty rare.

Rare enough, in fact, that any threat they might pose would seem non-existent to the general public.

Daryl

[hogdogs]

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt293/MarkFreddy/EllieandSowA.jpg
This is not only a "Coy-Dog" but a damn fine hog dog! I copied the pic without permission but doubt the guy would mind. Florida bred and born.

As for my chained out dogs, I am not ignorant! If I had the many thousands of dollars to build an escape proof kennel, I surely would. If my bulldogs were able to escape, it would be a bad situation and someone would be posting a "How to hunt feral dogs" thread about them.
Brent

[barnetmill]

Interbreeding between closely related canines occurs. I do not know how often. Below is part of an article that is based up one from Science Magazine.

"By Thomas H. Maugh II

Los Angeles Times

Black wolves and coyotes, often the villains of cartoons and children's fairy tales, apparently inherited their color from a much more warm and fuzzy animal: the dog.

True, dogs are descended from wolves, but research Friday in the journal Science indicates black fur was bred into dogs by humans and inadvertently introduced into the wild species.

The trait shows up in the wild primarily in North America, and it was probably brought to the continent about 15,000 years ago, when the first immigrants crossed over the Bering land bridge, bringing their dogs along.

That the mutation has stayed in the wild population for so long suggests it is beneficial in some way."

I have seen what I believe was a black coyote at the former Joliet Army Ammunition Plant (35,000 acres a little southwest of Chicago) a few years ago. The canine reminded me of some dog-wolf hybrids except for the very small size. Coyotes that I saw in Kansas were grey.

[hogdogs]

And the only dogs I keep on chains are work dogs. The ones I consider to be tools. I have the 4 indoor pet dogs as well. But the work dogs are not something I wish to have the same level of affection for as they may end up cut down dead by a hog on any hunt.
The wife and daughter don't need to be falling love the same for them as they do the pets as it will cause me strife from them when the dogs get hurt or killed.
Brent

[cornbush]

I guess I'm igronant too, my yard in Idaho wasn't fenced and I didn't own the place. So I kept my MUTT on a chain, had shelter, food, and water too. But I guess maybe we just don't have the brain power to take care of an animal Brent! :eek::eek: We also regularly shot strays, and problem dogs, collar or not. If my dog got out and caused a problem I wouldn't hold it against anyone to do the same.

[Dallas Jack]

I hunt in the Central Texas area. Goats are a big form of income there and the ranchers keep dogs to guard their goats. Usually Great Pyrenees. If they find another dog on their property that they do not reconize (another ranchers dog) the dog is shot collar or not. If they see another ranchers dog on their property they will call the rancher. (the first time) They just can not afford the loses caused by dogs and coyotes.

When hunting season starts, the hunters are likely to shoot any dog they see. The herd dogs generally stay with the goats and do not roam the woods. Of course there would not be a dog (or cat) problem if people didn't come from town and drop them off.

Feral dogs (and cats) are just not tolerated there. The general rule (as I've heard it) in ranching country is to shoot all feral dogs (and all cats) and be done with it.

On a side note, I live in the suburbs outside of Dallas. I keep a live trap baited in my back yard because of racoons. So far I've caught as many stray cats as I have coons. (5 each and 1 possum) They all go the the animal control folks never to be seen again. I've about cleaned the neiborhood of stray cats.
Dallas Jack

[cornbush]

When I lived in Idaho the sheep hearders left a few dogs behind every year. They were all great pyrenese, they were aggressive and we shot every one we saw after we knew the hearders had pulled out. There have been some heated discussions on this topic in the past, everyone has a different opinion about "the poor dog left behind", but I think if they saw them work over a deer or two they would change their mind.

[Peptobismol9]

If you live in a neighborhood, use something with high fragmentation, so its not likley to ricochet. Have you ever heard of Varmint Grenades? If you live in the woods, or away from a lot of people, shotguns are always a great way to eliminate the problem. If you want to be sure you get 'em, 3-inch 12 gauge rounds.