View Full Version : Tactical shotgun for home defense...

November 4, 2008, 10:27 PM
Alright folks, here's the scoop. I'm trying to buy a good tactical shotgun (anything with an 18" barrel, with a 6-8+ shot magazine using 2 3/4 shells.) So far my choices have been narrowed down to the Mossberg 500 series, and the Remington tactical series. Mossberg looks like the favorable one because of price, but how is its quality compared to Remington? Also, I live in an apartment, so ammo type is important, what kind of buck shot and slug would be recommended? Is reduced recoil a good idea? Thanks for your input for those who answer.


Scattergun Bob
November 4, 2008, 10:58 PM
Though I am a Remington kind of guy, I do own a mossberg 500, I find the gun very well made and I like the position of the safety provided that you do not put a pistol grip stock on it.

Living in a apartment is a very difficult environment to accommodate home defense. Your fields of fire are very limited and over penetration is a constant problem. With that said, YOU need to map out the areas of your casa that do not jeopardize your neighbors and use those as your back stop, another words set up your defensive position to take advantage of "safe backstops". Remember that changing the elevation by kneeling/setting can also create "safe backstops" to absorb your stray balls.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND any brand of slugs inside a apartment complex, and I would reduce my buck to # 4.

Good Luck & Be Safe

November 4, 2008, 11:25 PM
The durability of the mossberg is very fine and it is a rugged gun. I also prefer the ergonomics of the controls over any other shotgun. As well I like their customer service. Even with a pistol grip, the safety is very usable for me.

November 5, 2008, 12:32 AM
I own 870's and have never had a problem with either. I have 3 setups for my very versitale 870


General use / HD

And a bird gun setup that I do not yet have pics of.

The general use setup is how I bought It and it cost me $600. Pricey but I feel the price is worth what I got. 18" barrel, 6+1, 12ga, 2 3/4 or 3". To say the least I feel that I can defend my home with this.

You can get a tactical 870 for at least $100 less without the desert camo stock and forend and choke.

November 5, 2008, 12:34 AM
A bobecho:

I like my 870 but the safety position annoys me. I'd much prefer the visual tang to the tactile trigger guard mount.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND any brand of slugs inside a apartment complex, and I would reduce my buck to # 4.

I think that's wise.

November 5, 2008, 12:41 AM
Personally, I prefer the 870. I shot trap with one for years, hunted with one for most of my life. The 870 trigger is worlds better than the Mossberg 500 trigger.
That being said, I prefer the location of the Mossy safety and I have to admit, there are probably millions of Mossbergs out there doing there job everyday. They too are a rugged, well-made utility shotgun.

What's do I own right now? A standard wood-stocked Mossberg 500 wearing an 18 inch home security barrel, with a 28" vent-rib, ported barel in the safe for trap and bird hunting.

Handle them both, see which one fits you better, then go buy a USED one at half the price!

Scattergun Bob
November 5, 2008, 12:53 AM
A bobecho: :D Nice, had to clean off my monitor screen for that one!

Now if Mossberg would develop a way to lock the sear on their scattergun with that tang safety lever, I would buy stock in the company!

Good Luck & Be Safe

November 5, 2008, 12:54 AM
Although I think the Mossy safety is easier to access or use, the rem safety is "More safe." It would be easier to accidently disengage the mossy safety. Also it would be horrible if you were using a pistol grip, which I sometimes use. Remington 870's are the world's most popular and most produced shotgun in the world for a reason. As far as the shot, 00 buck or 000 buck all the way. One of the first rules of hunting is beware of what is behind your target. I use that for HD as well. Also Box of truth proves that even a 9mm can penetrate just about as much as any shot shells.

November 5, 2008, 12:56 AM
Remington 1100, hard to beat.

Scattergun Bob
November 5, 2008, 01:06 AM
Yep, I agree, pistol rounds and buck do about the same in Sheetrock. I try to be as fair as possible on the Chevy vrs Ford debate:), I own 7 870's and 1 Mossberg they all do "right fine" when it comes to scattering shot.

Good Luck & Be Safe

November 5, 2008, 01:09 AM
+1 bob

November 5, 2008, 03:19 AM
Can't go wrong with either. I currently have a mossberg 500 tactical breacher with an m4 stock, and a mossberg 590 A1 18" . The 500 tactical is very nice for an apartment because its so compact with the retractable stock. Heres a couple of quick videos of my 500:




I wouldn't recommend slugs for home defense. Federal 00 buck is the way to go IMO.

November 5, 2008, 05:07 AM
Mossberg 500.I really don't like the word "Tactical", better to say "useful". This is mine with a ProMag stock and TacStar side saddle. Works perfectly and the stock is very well made.


November 5, 2008, 05:56 AM
Mossberg 500.I really don't like the word "Tactical", better to say "useful".

I know what you mean...you add the word "tactical" to a gun name, shooting class, or article of clothing and sales probably triple.

As annoying as that word is, the alternative mossberg 500 "useful" sounds kind of corny. :D

November 5, 2008, 07:10 AM
I will keep in mind to use buckshots only, especially because of the fact I live in an apartment. To ScattergunBob, is there any reason you picked #4 buck over 00 or 000 buck? So far I have a Steyr M-40A1 for general SD, but a shotgun is always nice to have because of its intrinsic effectiveness.


November 5, 2008, 07:28 AM
i had issues with the theroy that buck shot is safe in an appt or home.
this is what i did, i built 6 double sided walls for the range.
i tried every size from slugs to #9 bird shot.
ALL sizes except #7-#9 went through 4 sheets of wall.
the bird shot even at 2ft went through the first wall and dropped inside.

Dave McC
November 5, 2008, 08:30 AM
Either platform will do and so will lots of others.

The weakest link is us. Train like your life depended on it. It does.

Shoot as frequently as possible, until you know your shotgun like your tongue knows your teeth.

Shoot clays, starlings, tin cans, landfill rats,whatever you can.

Even static games like trap and skeet are good training. If you can hit small fast targets in short time frames, larger slower ones are a gimme.

November 5, 2008, 09:21 AM
Shoot as frequently as possible, until you know your shotgun like your tongue knows your teeth.

Scattergun Bob
November 5, 2008, 12:42 PM
Epyon said "To ScattergunBob, is there any reason you picked #4 buck over 00 or 000 buck?"

No not really, I have just had some "negative consequences" using 00 in apartment environments. It is my conservatism coming out in regard to recommending shot size. There may be a little less penetration with #4buck, MAYBE!

Epyon said "but a shotgun is always nice to have because of its intrinsic effectiveness."

During my time "under the gun" I have learned one thing There Are no magic projectiles or Perfect guns, it is all a compromise. We educate and train ourselves to SELECT the compromise best for the job at hand. Effectiveness has much to do with OTHER factors and there are NO guaranteed stops in a gunfight.

By the way, you got a response from Dave McC, read it carfully, In my humble mind, everything he says is GOLD.
Good Luck & Be Safe

November 5, 2008, 12:59 PM
Handle them both, see which one fits you better, then go buy a USED one at half the price!

I agree with that, there are plenty of deals out there every day to be found.

As for why not to use slugs or 00........if you ever get to see a discharge in a house you will know why.... sheetrock and hollow doors arent going to stop much of anything. # 4 buck is what I keep mine loaded with.

November 5, 2008, 01:04 PM
Damn Scattergun, I only own 2 870's. Can you PM me pics of your babys? I just got my 2nd but I already want more :cool:

November 5, 2008, 01:09 PM

You said, you own only ... " 7 870's and 1 Mossberg ... " - you're slacking off man .... ( and no mention of a Benelli M-4 or a lowly Browning BPS in the mix ...shame on you). You need some more shotgun firepower hardware ....we're relying on you for our broad base tactical shotgun info ...don't let us down...

November 5, 2008, 01:17 PM
I only own 2 870's

They have a way of multiplying.

I was at 4 and then thinned the herd down to just 1 that was well worn in. Now all of a sudden there's an old Wingmaster in my truck. I have no idea how it got there, honest........

Think my wife will buy that??:confused:

November 5, 2008, 01:21 PM
I use to have an 870 and a 1300. Now I have a 590A1...but mine wears wood:




I keep it loaded up with reduced recoil 00 Buck with which I am able to achieve ultra-fast follow up shots.

Scattergun Bob
November 5, 2008, 02:46 PM
I do have a M-37, 1100, Win superx-1, benelli M-1 S90 x 2, a unusual win model 1400 box magazine fed, and a Remington Model 31. All set up as fighting scatterguns. No M4 Benelli or M-12 or BPS though a BPS with a short barrel is on the table up here.

We were talking about the great Chevy vrs Ford debate, so I stayed there. Being a new bee to the internet I don't what to brag or act out, but since you asked.:)

Obviously, I am WAY TOO fixated on fighting scatterguns, guess you call that an addiction!

My Best Bob

PS I will e-mail you about the gun show soon, got kind of behind on the honey do list for winter!:(

Scattergun Bob
November 5, 2008, 02:50 PM
If some one can explain in simple language (child like) how to get pictures into this forum then yes. I have tried many times and FAILED, I have NO real knoledge of digital cameras or this stupid Kodak program, and each time I have tried, it DO NOT WORK!!!!!:mad:

Good Luck & Be Safe

November 5, 2008, 03:38 PM
I'm not good at it - but someplace in your software program - there will be a resize option - and in general, to get a jpeg file below the max for the forum you have to get it under 240 ( and ideally around 100 ). What I finally figured out, is to go into the Edit section of my photo software, resize, and it lets me put in the pixel size I want, then I re-save it with a new file name - and it works.

The reloading portion of my shop ( see, no food, I have to leave once in a while ).


and yes, you are fixated on fighting shotguns / but that's why we like you...

the software I use for managing photos in a Windows XP environment is called Photo Explosion Deluxe ver 2.0 - but its a few years old, and there is probably something new out there now. I don't know anything about a Kodak program.

November 5, 2008, 04:22 PM
Use this website to resize photos


Dave McC
November 5, 2008, 10:11 PM
Bob, you say "Fixated on fighting shotguns" like it's a bad thing....

You also have more 870s. I'm down to 5. Sold the TB.

I'll catch up.....

November 7, 2008, 04:57 AM
BigJim... I think that sounds like blah blah blah photos..... blah balh blah resize and then you do it like this.... blah blah blah.. to poor Bob. Great with Scatterguns... not so good with computer....:p

November 7, 2008, 07:16 AM
create photo bucket account
upload picture
copy/paste the img tag into post.

but all this talk about buckshot penetrating walls...are you guys using low brass shells or the most powerful long magnums the gun will handle? i dont think magnums work well for home defense, i like lower power/recoil, wouldnt this have some effect on wall penetration tests?

...but with all the home defense shotguns out there...are there no dedicated loads actually designed for this choice??

November 7, 2008, 11:04 AM
I use 00 winchester or what ever is cheap in a 12 gauge. 9 pellet high brass. My intent is to fire on a COM thus it should reduce the velocity and energy of any pass thru balls. In my 20 gauge I can only find #3 buck as the largest ball size in a low dough round. I would go bigger if I could find it. I reckon 1-3 of those sunk in the torso will slow down a home invader a touch at least.

November 7, 2008, 01:18 PM
For Scattergun Bob (No pictures needed)During my time "under the gun" I have learned one thing There Are no magic projectiles or Perfect guns, it is all a compromise.
Well said, but I doubt we'll stop seeing requests for recommendations on selecting an all purpose perfect gun/ammo combination for HD. Perhaps your compromise should have been in a bold red font.

From your postings, you obviously have considerable knowledge of what you aptly refer to as fighting shotguns. Given that you have more models in your possession than the average gun shop, what is your compromise of choice for a HD shotgun? This assumes you keep a shotgun at the ready, which may not be the case. And, a shotgun may not be your first choice.

Rather than rehashing the typical scenario of what to do if you hear something go bump in the night: What reaction do you anticipate if a low orbiting LE helicopter's loudspeaker announces to your neighborhood, "Lock your doors and stay in your homes!"?

November 7, 2008, 02:13 PM
how well those funny looking little semi auto shotguns that were built for the minishells would be in a home defense situation when quarters are close and over penetration a real problem. just a thought.

November 7, 2008, 02:55 PM
sold the TB

Funny, I just aquired one of those. Though it appears as if the receiver and internals are the only original TB parts left on it. The wood is of Police model vintage and it WAS wearing an express barrel. Picked up a couple of older nice Wingmaster barrels (20" Cyl and 28" Mod) and it feels a little more correct now. I wasn't after a trap gun anyway so it works for my purposes.

That's the nice thing about 870's you can pretty much make of them what you want.

Dave McC
November 7, 2008, 03:05 PM
Right on, RRN. 870s go apart like Lego sets. Lessee....

Of the 5 here, 3 do not have the stocks on they did when they first entered my care. One(Frankenstein) has been swapped twice.

3, not the same 3, have different barrels mounted. Two have different bolts.

Of course, Frankenstein, my overpublicised parts 870, has DNA more mixed than a junkyard pooch. Maybe 10 870s contributed to THAT mixture.

And I'm a ten thumbed technodunce. A real gun smith would have lots more stuff moved around.

November 7, 2008, 03:08 PM
I'm going to soon need another gun safe or cabinet just for the extra barrels I've accumulated. I've got 2 or 3 per shotgun for most of them. I keep them huddled in the back of the closet hoping they'll breed a nice O/U.

Hasn't happened yet.........:D.

November 7, 2008, 05:27 PM
get an 870 Police and don't look back

Dave McC
November 7, 2008, 08:46 PM
870s do not reproduce, but they do multiply. Good luck.....

Scattergun Bob
November 7, 2008, 08:58 PM
Zippy 13
Thank you for asking my opinion on this matter. I have an outspoken theory of Home Defense and I will gladly share it. I suggest that theories are like orifices everyone has a couple. That said, what works for me may or may not work for another. I suggest strongly to all of my students and cronies that YOU MUST PERSONALLY prove the value of each item and procedure that your life depends on. OK, enough said!

The difficulty of discussing home defense in a forum is the complex nature of the subject, I appreciate that you took the time to limit the scope of the discussion. In order to give you my best I need to take a bit of space and define some parts of home defense so that you understand from where my mind is coming.

So, before I start, I am often chided for my advocacy of passive defense measures that allow us to exit the combat envelope without having to engage the enemy, I firmly stand on the premise that the best gunfight is the one that never happened, and anything we do before hand to harden our home as a target will reward us. Once our passive defenses have been breached, then it is time for direct, decisive and aggressive action.

I believe that there are 5 basic missions within the idea of home defense. Each has a different set of skills and tactics, each offers unique combat multipliers. Each has dramatic failings. Each complicates our ability to discuss Home Defense in general terms. I will describe these from the most aggressive/ risk thru least aggressive / risk.

1st Attacking / Searching / Clearing – hunting your enemy A very successful but VERY risky mission. As an independent fighter I would not deploy a scattergun for this mission. There would have to be an overwhelming reason for me to execute this mission as an independent fighter. REMEMBER; you will be doing this in what ever you sleep in, and folks I do not sleep in tactical pants or with a pistol belt on.

2nd Moving to gain intelligence – Who’s out side? The worst thing we can do; open the door and exist our house, HIGH risk / minimal gain, what ever firearm we deploy it won’t make up for this mistake. And yet to a person we at one time or another will all do it.

3rd Moving to aid – get to the Kids – A have to mission, not much time to clear or secure areas, we simply have to move forward thru unknown ground and survive this, then gather our flock. Again due to its length as an independent fighter I would not deploy a scattergun here. Once you bring your flock back to an area of safety, get the scattergun out.

4th Giving Ground – retreating to a safe spot – Have a gun, with in reason most any gun will do. We can arm up back at the fort.

5th Holding Ground - Welcome to my fortress - In my opinion the most successful defense theory available, it of course is not available to those that have others to defend unless you have a defense plan that moves them into your fortress. I my opinion this is the optimal theory for a scattergun deployment. Known distance, known direction of threat, surprise, no corners or doorways to stick your barrel through, availability of more tools if you scattergun does not work, ability to pre select fields and angles of safe firing, delivery of maximum projectile weight in a large crush zone. The list of positive combat multipliers for this mission is extensive.

Perhaps there are other missions that others may use, please add to my list.

So now to answer your second question Zippy, I would execute mission 4 & 5 I would enter my bedroom (Fortress), lock the door, leave the lights out, deploy Brenda into her hidey hole with a cell phone and her j-frame, take up my position, deploy a scattergun that lives there and sweat it out. If some compelling reason forced me out of my fortress, I would exit with an N frame .45, spare speed loader in my shorts and at least one flash light (just the mere vision of fat, old, Bob rolling down the hall in skivvies, ought to transfix, disorient and drive off most perps :D.) And yes, Brenda does practice as # 2 man down the hallway. I’ve had worse tactical partners.

As to your first question, If you have a scattergun that you KNOW is reliable and you absolutely KNOW how to make it GO and STOP, use it. A double can be stored partially broken open (pencil between barrels and receiver, loaded for bear. A pump is good cruiser ready, an auto like my Benelli m-1 stored hammer down, 1 on the carrier works. Mossberg, savage/stevens, Remington, Ithaca, Winchester, etc they all scatter shot just fine.

My compromise is to a Remington 870 fighting shotgun, I know the gun very well, after what seem like a life time of looking down a 870 barrel I feel confident with what it will and will not do, I believe that I can fix most of the malfunctions quickly. Also with a surplus of them I could afford loosing one to the DA during a shooting investigation. AND most important as long as I execute mission #5 correctly I have a pistol as a backup right next to me.

I would not deploy a scattegun outside of my fortress, with out experienced and trusted support personell with whom I had trained and were armed correctly.

In closing, as important as the selection and deployment of a fighting firearms, is to always have a plan, practice that plan, understand the limits of your specific mission and know how to be aggressive decisive and savage.

Never underestimate your enemy
Never supply your enemy with anything he can use against you (information or material)
When it is necessary to attack, strike first with the maximum force available.

I hope in some small way this answers your question, if not I will try again.

My Best, Bob

Scattergun Bob
November 7, 2008, 09:01 PM
You get a GOLD star, not only am I not good, the terms incoherent, lost in space, absolutely clueless come to mind when folks talk about pictures, photo programs and photobucket??? what the hell is that:)

Good Luck & Be Safe

Scattergun Bob
November 7, 2008, 09:07 PM

Are you sure that 870 don't asexually reproduce, I swore I saw my 870 police smiling at that new cute special field that I brought home a few months ago!:)

Damn straight parts guns count! one of my trade-ins came as a receiver only and I hate to think how many different parts lots built it back up, funny thing is works just fine.

My Best, Bob

November 7, 2008, 10:39 PM
Scattergun Bobthe best gunfight is the one that never happened

PM sent.

Dave McC
November 7, 2008, 11:11 PM
As long as that 870, Bob, doesn't keep that Special Field out late on school nights.....

Seriously, one of the delights of the 870 platform is the modular design. Frankenstein, whose receiver dates from 1973, wears the corncob forend that was on my first 870, made in 1950, when I got it in 1959 for Xmas. It also has the bolt from that one.

The TG and action bars may or may not be original to the receiver. I got them from the same dealer that bought the surplussed shotguns when the MD Pen closed down and parted out the worst ones. The abused hunka walnut they threw in to clinch the deal was so abused I painted it flat black. It's now cleaned, up, refinished, and adorns a friend's impromptu trap 870 in OK.

Whether or not original, Frankenstein near shucks itself, the trigger is clean at 4 lbs and there's an impressive amount of dead critters in its history.

Scattergun Bob
November 7, 2008, 11:26 PM
P/S Glad to have you back and active on our forum, hopefully all is healed and works as advertised!:)

best regards, Scattergun Bob

Dave McC
November 8, 2008, 09:42 AM
Thanks, Bob. Stamina still needs some work but the pain's gone.

Modding both THRs leave me scant time for others, but I've memories here.

November 8, 2008, 10:26 AM
I'm like others here and will say you should get your self a combo shotgun and handgun back up.


Katrina Guy
November 9, 2008, 09:15 AM
Let me preface by saying I'm not nearly as knowing as many in this forum, that prefaced, from my common sense perspective I prefer the Mossberg over the Remington because of the placement or location of the slide release lever. How was that for a run on sentence *laugh*.
I was turned off with the Mossberg six months ago and bought an 870 instead-reason, the safety of the Mossberg turned me off, not it's placement which is generally prefered but it seemed rickity. However I visited Academy sporting goods a month back and picked up the Mossy and the safety has been changed, not instead of being some add on like thing on top it is now a rectangular piece that sits inside of a groove.
BUT the location of that slide release in my opinion is the most important thing especially if you plan to keep the shotgun loaded but unchambered. Next time you go view the two brands keep this in mind, really want to get creative monkey with both slide releases with your eyes closed as you may need to pull it into action sometime in near darkness.

Scattergun Bob
November 9, 2008, 10:29 AM
Katrina Guy is 100% on the placement of the slide release. I work Winchester and Mossberg releases much better than Ithaca 37 or Remington 870. I have a suspesion that Remington "borrowed" the design and placement of the release from Ithaca.

Good Luck & Be Safe

November 10, 2008, 02:02 AM
I kinda feel outnumbered here, but I have a Benelli SuperNova Tactical. Its a fine shotgun, but hella hard to get parts for. Oh well...I think my next purchase will either be a Remington 870P MAX or a Benelli M3 or M4. Now, in terms of the ammo to use for home defense, although 00-Buck is obviously the most effective, I have heard that birdshot is preferred. I keep 2 to 3 rounds of birdshot in the tube, followed by 2 or so rounds of 00-Buck. In addition, I have 4 rounds of buckshot in a Mesa Tactical sidesaddle.
The birdshot ranges from #4 to #7. The 00 rounds are low-recoil Federals. When we are talking sub-30 feet or so, in terms of home defense range, full power 00-Buck isnt really necessary, imho. Plus, this allows for greater control in an otherwise seemigly uncontrollable situation!

Anyway, unless you have already made a decision, I would go with a Mossberg. I have heard that, as of late, Remington has been lacking in terms of QA on their shotguns. Unless we are talking about the 870 Marine Magnum, Magnum XCS or Police models. These seem to have the highest marks in terms of what Remington has to offer.

If cost is not an concern, and if you havent decided already, I would consider one of the high-end Remington Police models vs the Mossberg. If cost IS a concern, I stand by my original suggestion of Mossberg. Of course, you might also consider a Benelli M3, which gives you both a semi-auto shotty as well as a pump. The "M" series Benellis seem to have far greater parts availability than the other Benelli models. Of course, as with most things in life, you will pay a fairly high price for such a weapon as this. Good luck!!

Katrina Guy
November 10, 2008, 06:41 PM
You're probably like me and most others in here, mostly you want a defensive shotgun just to have handy?
That's me anyway. I don't grab it every time I hear a cat outside knock over a freaking garbage can lid, actually I don't reach for anything under such circumstances, I'm not on a hair trigger here nor do I think that most in here are as well...still a formidable weapon such as a shotgun does allow you to sleep better at night-good choice for you to get, and remember, you won't always be living in whatever present abode you're in-but your shotgun will follow you around from abode to abode, beit large or small, urban or country. A good thing to have.
I do have a Colt brand 1911 next to me in the bed and a shotgun nearby, if I hear something that sounds suspect I'll get up with my handgun, now if I were to hear something that sounded like my door getting kicked in that's a different story.
I like the Mossberg persuader a lot but most in here I believe don't think it's as well made/will hold up as long as the venerable 870, while this may be true and it probably is, I don't plan on shooting thousands of rounds through mine, keep this in mind as well in your choice of which one to get.
NOTE, I've not shot my Remington 870 HD yet, nor ever a Mossberg, one may shoot far better than another, THAT one is for more competent shotgunners to address.

November 10, 2008, 07:01 PM
have owned a few mossbergs. they come and go, $200-$300...trade them in on something new fangled, later i regret it and get another one.
the last election months i have been watching all the black rifles roll out the door of the gun store i frequent like a feeding frenzy, and i kept seeing this lonely, used mossberg with rifle stock just sitting there. wrote down the receiver numbers read up the last few weeks here and elsewhere etc. kept hoping someone would buy it so i wouldnt have to see it any more.
trip back from the range this morning i asked how much he really wanted for it, since it had been there thru the election fever and obviously wasnt ever gonna sell.

$350.00, looks new except for one shiny spot on the mag from sitting in his felt lined rack and rolling back and forth for 6 months:
parkerized m590a1 heavy 20" barrel, bead front sight, alum trigger set, bayonet lug:rolleyes:. i had 50 bux to put down, it was more than i could bear. oh well.

Katrina Guy
November 10, 2008, 07:25 PM
You're such a softy *laugh*

November 10, 2008, 08:02 PM
stalled for weeks but no takers.
maybe i missed something broke on it.

Katrina Guy
November 10, 2008, 10:06 PM
LOL!, well, let's hope not, funny story though.

Katrina Guy
November 10, 2008, 10:08 PM
If it were spray painted black I'm sure it would have gone with the rest of the black is in feeding freenzys LOL

November 14, 2008, 02:11 AM
Get a saiga 12 with a 20 round drum and some 10 round mags. Use a Mossberg 590A1 pump as a backup :)

January 2, 2009, 06:04 PM
I have to second the fella who mentioned the benelli supernova tactical with pistol grips and ghost sights. You will have a much more difficult time getting bling-bling for your gun but in a defensive situation this is not necessary. I find the grip and buttstock on this gun to make it amazingly maneuverable for a shotgun, while still giving you a buttstock to absorb the recoil and get back on target. Magazine extensions are easy to find. I think the shotgun is a beautiful piece, which in fact, is why I bought it on an impulse while at the gun store for a revolver.

I've taken it to the range and fired off 100s of rounds of buckshot and slugs. It is amazingly accurate for a smoothbore. The high velocity slugs were always on the black at 30 yards. The buckshot pattern was perfect for in-the-home distances.

And the recoil on this badboy was less than on my remi 870 or my mossberg.