View Full Version : T Shirt Committee: Volunteers Wanted

Rich Lucibella
February 20, 1999, 08:40 AM
Q and cornered rat have volunteered to help with the TFL T-Shirt project. I have volunteered Q as Chairman.

If we can get a small working group (3-5 more people) involved I'm willing to move this forward. The group will work by email to develop the design.

Perhaps a breast graphic and a statement on back...something original like "www.TheFiringLine.com: If you Die We Split Your Gear", as seen on the Atlanta Bunjikan Dojo shirts...also seen on an Arizona Sheriff Dept Jacket. We need a statement we can make our own.

If there's interest in developing the art work for this, I'll handle production and distribution.

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited February 20, 1999).]

February 20, 1999, 08:48 AM
Rich, if I can be of any help - I'm in !

Time zones & a few 1000mls not withstanding ;)

"The Gun from Down Under !"

February 20, 1999, 11:38 AM
Count me in if you need some more help.

Jeff Thomas
February 20, 1999, 01:03 PM
I volunteer! Can I review the 'breast graphic'? ;) (Q, I apologize for my tasteless humor ;) )

Rich, I will help in any way I can - you know where to find me. I am not the artsy type, so I'll have to help in other ways. I might be able to assist with the verbiage. And, IMHO, I would suggest we use something that is more 'intellectual' - to throw off the anti-self defense types that always want to refer to us as 'Neanderthal's'.

PS - let's have a contest on TFL for the best slogan. We have the perfect medium here for a 'virtual' brainstorming session! What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 20, 1999).]

February 20, 1999, 04:02 PM
Well, CR and I are the "artsy" types, so that part is easily covered. As for ideas, Oleg suggests something like "Free People Own Guns, Slaves Do Not" and a graphic of a flintlock musket receiver and a Garand or M-14 receiver side-by-side...

Or, a picture of the constitution with the words "Follow the Law."

Another possibility (may not be appropriate to wear in public ;)), would be a collage from Auschwitz and Soviet "projects" and our own Klansmen, Waco, etc... with a caption "Remember. Stay armed."

I suggested to use the same graphic, except replace "Remember." with "Why." (the statement, not the question).

There is yet another possibility... Oleg has all of his posters readily available at <a href="http://www.ddb.com/RKBA">his site</a> and we could just incorporate TFL logos into them...

Any other suggestions?

cr's email is [email protected], mine is [email protected]

"Oh, grow up, 007."

cornered rat
February 20, 1999, 04:06 PM
How about "Gun Contol World Tour 20th century" and then the chart (perhaps re-designed) from <a href="http://www.jpfo.org/L-laws.htm">JPFO's</a> site?

If you believe in freedom and means of protecting it...you might be a gun nut.

February 20, 1999, 06:26 PM
Q and Cornered Rat if I can be of any assistance to you please don't hesitate to give me a holler.

Justice for one,Justice for all.

Rich Lucibella
February 20, 1999, 08:11 PM
Guys, remember that The Firing Line is about much more than just political issues. While those are the most important, they are also the most somber topics.

The T's should have wide appeal and result in casual observers being interested in what we're all about here. (Q, I'm not certain what is meant by "our own Klansmen"?)

Can we go a bit lighter on the theme?

4V50 Gary
February 20, 1999, 09:47 PM
As a man lacking artistic talent, I'd like to add my two centavos.

Use the "gun" on the front along with the menu showing all the forums on the back.

For extra $, one can have their shirt personalized with their handle.

February 20, 1999, 10:22 PM
Q and Cornered Rat - count me in. I like 4V50 Gary's idea. I would rather see the political/which gun/macho stuff left to the forum; and use the t-shirt as an advertising medium to gather new members. Maybe even a subtle curiousity approach, where we say 'TFL' vice 'The Firing Line and no gun just the crosshairs on the front breast; put the web address and forum listing on the back.

Anyway I am on email, so give me a holler.

Freedom is not Free

4V50 Gary
February 20, 1999, 10:39 PM
But ATM, I've grown fond of the gun. Waaaahhhhhhh! Sniffle Sniffle.

February 21, 1999, 12:11 AM
Well I'm not much on art, design or such stuff, But I think I may have a slogan. What do you think?

The Firing Line- Where the best weapon is between your ears.

Jeff Thomas
February 21, 1999, 01:49 AM
Here are a few ideas - no guffaws, please: ;)

1. Incredible firearms discussions on the web.
2. The web's best firearms resource
3. Shooting logic, info and advice your way on the web
4. Shooting discussions your way
5. Guns and logic, at your virtual shooting range
6. Virtually the best shooting discussion on the web

cornered rat
February 21, 1999, 03:40 AM
Unfortunately, <a href="http://www.dioso.com/smallarm.html" target="_new">Joe</a> has already done most of the ideas with his rec.guns tshirt designs...check them out.

February 21, 1999, 03:42 AM
I do agree with keeping it lighter...

Could we get David to write something for us? His post on "sick of ultimate" was great!


"Oh, grow up, 007."

Jeff Thomas
February 21, 1999, 04:16 AM
David had a great one, but if we used that, all the shirts would have to be XXXXL! ;)

With due respect to Joe, he's got some great shirts there. However, and maybe I'm too low key, TFL doesn't strike me as the kind of site that would be accurately advertised with the 'macho'-type slogans / t-shirts.

This site has developed, IMHO, as an intelligent, professional, skilled group of shooters who have a firm philosophy of independence, responsibility and a respect for self-defense, hunting, gunsmithing and so on. We have a great mix of LEO's, military personnel, civilians, amateurs and experts. The challenge would seem to involve finding a slogan that most members would wear with pride, no?

I'm sure my politics are showing, but from my perspective, I would be disappointed to see TFL t-shirts that sounded something like (as Mort so eloquently put it recently, in jest ;) ) 'GLOCK 4EVR AND DEF LEPPARD ROX [email protected]$*&!%'.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 21, 1999).]

February 21, 1999, 06:50 AM

** Dont' get MAD....Get ONLINE ! **

Too Subliminal ? ;)

"The Gun from Down Under !"

[This message has been edited by HS (edited February 21, 1999).]

Ray VanderLinden
February 21, 1999, 08:26 AM
I like Grayfox's Line but I'd add something like:


Come to www.thefiringline.com for ammo.

[This message has been edited by Raymond VanDerLinden (edited February 21, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Raymond VanDerLinden (edited February 21, 1999).]

February 21, 1999, 08:27 AM
How about on the (left?) upper front "Everything you ever wanted to know about firearms..." and on the (left?) upper back "...but were afraid to ask. The Firing Line.com." Putting TFL in a different color.

February 21, 1999, 09:06 AM
Don't forget a l/h breast pocket on the T-shirt !

Where else would I put my spare extra rounds during competition ? :)

btw, it would be a most excellant place for the GUN !

"The Gun from Down Under !"

Rich Lucibella
February 21, 1999, 10:17 AM
Looks like you've got plenty for a committee. You might consider taking general suggestions from this thread, as it develops and working by e-mail on the specificvs with a team of your choice.

All others...keep the great ideas coming. The approach must be eye catching and memorable (I recently saw a tagline on an email, "Intructing defenders in the proper use of a shovel after a gunfight" :). Certainly not what we're looking for, but has the "memorable" quality.

Rich Lucibella
February 21, 1999, 10:29 AM
Quotes from my files; not put forth as possible T-Text, but to encourage mpre ideas:

"Those who will give up essential liberties to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin

"In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief in the chains of the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson

"Our legislators are not sufficiently apprised of the rightful limits of their power; that their true office is to declare and enforce only our natural rights and duties, and to take none of them from us."
Thomas Jefferson Letter to F. W. Gilmer, 1816

"Liberty means responsibility; that is why most men dread it."
George Bernard Shaw

"There are remedies worse than the disease."
Publilius Syrus Sententiae, c. 50 B.C.

"Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do."
Bertrand Russell

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"
Sigmund Freud in "General Introduction to Psychoanalysis"

"Hoplophobia is, after all, not a reasoned position, but rather a mental aberration. Being basically emotional, it is a feeling rather than an examined forensic position"
Colonel Jeff Cooper


February 21, 1999, 06:04 PM
I really like the freud comment. ;)

But cornered rat just came up with something I really like best so far:

"The Firing Line. Where the good guys are."

"Oh, grow up, 007."

Rich Lucibella
February 21, 1999, 07:00 PM
Q and cornered rat....sounds like we're getting there. I like the imagery.

How about something along the lines of:
There is a cure...www.TheFiringLine.com

February 22, 1999, 01:47 AM
Yes, but.

Don't you think the chosen phrase should be "gunny", whatever it is? I, being tired, have no suggestions. No, wait--no, I don't have anything.

4V50 Gary
February 22, 1999, 02:11 AM
Gunny as in gunnysack or as in USMC Gunnery Sergeant?

Hoplophobia? I understand it is derived from hoplite. Used in a phalanx, the hoplite was formidable but it was proven that peltasts, given the terrain could prove their master. Ahh, where goes the valor of men when they must slay another with firearms from afar instead of the push of the pike?

February 22, 1999, 08:47 AM
Give me" LIBERTY " or give me " The Firing Line . Com !"

Still too cerebral? ;)

"The Gun from Down Under !"

Rich Lucibella
February 22, 1999, 09:48 AM
Hoplophobia is a Jeff Cooper term.
Hoplo= Tool or Weapon (interchangeable in original Greek)
Phobia= Irrational fear.

4V50 Gary
February 22, 1999, 12:10 PM
Thanks Rich. Should have figured that one out but I never studied Greek (OK, so Hoplo is Greek and phobia is Latin). I know the hoplite was the heavily armored pikeman of 600-350 B.C. Deployed in a phalanx, battles were won by the "push of the pike" and the side which pushed heavier and remained steadier prevailed. The heavy armor gave the hoplites of the Greek city states the advantage over their lightly armored Persian enemies (and others). Naturally, this was a strictly a linear battle formation not conducive to rough terrain (less the phalanx lose its cohesiveness) and this made the flanks of the phalanx vulnerable. Thus, light infantry with greater mobility, known as peltasts, were formed to protect the flanks of the phalanx. Calvary was also used in this regard. In one battle, despite the Spartan hoplites being defeated by Athenian peltasts (on the island of Pylos), all Greeks stubbornly stayed with the hoplite. While the heavier armor was later discarded by the Macedonians, it wasn't until the advent of the Roman Legion did the Greek phalanx meet its match. Enough history for today.

So, what's the T-shirt going to look like folks?

February 22, 1999, 05:20 PM
Visuals will be easy after we can decide on the text.

I'm still leaning toward "www.TheFiringLine.com: Where the Good Guys Are," with a pair of ivory-handled Colt SAA Revolvers or something like that...

(I agree with 4v50 Gary... I like the guns, too.)

Oleg has agreed to be my designer on this one, since I'm working on another freelance project this & next week (Hey, the Creative Director part is the easiest... I just sit back and ask for ideas, then delegate the actual "work" to the Art Director. ;)).

"Oh, grow up, 007."

Jeff Thomas
February 22, 1999, 08:10 PM
I'm a bit partial to the Ben Franklin quote, but maybe that's too stodgy. And, this will sound dumb (because I don't care for 'political correctness' at all!), but I'd like to see plenty of female participation and 'where the good guys are' may be discouraging (?). Q, is that silly? Otherwise, I like it.

How about 'Shooting subjects, for those who won't be shooting subjects'? ;)

Along Grayfox's and Raymond's lines, how about:

"TheFiringLine.Com - Ammunition for your mind!"?

I think it would be great to include an H&K / Sig / 1911 pistol, and a rifle or shotgun ('black' rifle probably not best - maybe M-14 or ??)

Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 23, 1999).]

February 22, 1999, 10:06 PM
How about something really simple and to the point, such as, The Firing Line logo on the the front and on the back, "It's Loaded!".....

Jeff Thomas
February 22, 1999, 11:17 PM
Hey Kate! Welcome! Ask and ye shall receive, eh?

Rob Pincus
February 23, 1999, 12:20 AM
I always refer to TFL as

"The Premier Firearms Discussion site on the Internet"

I am in favor of VERY simple graphics.. no matter what it says, if it looks like a def lepard T-shirt, I probly won't wear it much.

Futhermore, when you guys get around to actually buying the shirts, please involve me. I get great shirts at dirt bottom pricing from some of the companies I use as sponsors for charity events.

Anyone up for a reasonably priced Polo instead of a T-shirt ??


Jeff Thomas
February 23, 1999, 01:02 AM
Actually a Polo / golf shirt would be a very good idea, or at least an option. It would be good to let some of our fellow golfers see what we do during the other 6 days of the week.

If we go with T's, let's get decent quality shirts - the thin ones are bad news. Of course, the market will govern ...

For a logo, how about a crossed rifle and shotgun, with a pistol over 'TFL', ala:

. / - \
/ TFL \

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 23, 1999).]

February 23, 1999, 05:58 AM
I'd suggest using a graphic similar to the one at the top of this page, except don't use the M-60. You could use two rifles, say a flintlock and an M-14, maybe with a Colt SAA and a 1911 in the foreground. Under the graphic, you could put something like "All gun talk, All the time" (not neccesarly that phrase--just a suggestion).

Then, simply put "www.thefiringline.com" on the pocket (if it's a pocket tee) or over the left breast.

How's that sound?

Ed Brunner
February 23, 1999, 08:49 AM
"The Firing Line-Ammunition for the Mind"

Dont you just love it?

Better days to be,


Rich Lucibella
February 23, 1999, 09:40 AM
The T-Shirts will be high quality. Polos? Might be an idea. However, I have zero intention of stocking 144 TFL polo shirts and 144 TFL T's on the off chance they're gonna become the latest fashion craze.

Once the designs are done to Q's satisfaction, we'll price the units and, if we can get committments for all of 'em (at cost), we'll move forward. Otherwise, we had some fun.

4V50 Gary
February 23, 1999, 12:35 PM
As a point of order, the gun is a FN MAG. It shares with the M60 the feed mechanism of the MG42. Respectfully,

4V50 Gary

February 23, 1999, 04:41 PM
For the text part, how about "www.thefiringline.com" and "This Is Your Brain On Guns...Any Questions!".
Yes I got the idea from the anti-drug comercials. I like them. :)

just a thought


February 24, 1999, 12:20 AM
I think we're getting close. I really like "Ammunition for your mind". I think the main point is to stress that we're not just shooters, but intellegent thinkers as well.

4V50 Gary
February 24, 1999, 12:26 AM
OK, how about the gun with one of those fancy slogans someone suggests beneath it?

February 24, 1999, 07:44 AM
The Firing Line.com - No Licence Reqired !

The Firing Line.com-The Best on the NET !

The Firing Line.com - No Waiting Period !

The Firing Line.com - Open 7 Days
NO WAITING ! ------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"

[This message has been edited by HS (edited February 24, 1999).]

El Chimango Pete
February 24, 1999, 01:29 PM
Alas, nobody has suggeted a Pennsylvania / Kentuchy rifle.
"the Spirit of 1776
(picture and/or "The Firing Line Forums")
"into 2000"
----but all the other ideas are great!
Please don't crossed AK 47's or any other military rifle - many of the terrorist goons that have caused so much misery in the name of 'marxism-leninism' (and still do) here in Latin America have used this style logo... just stating the obvious ;)

El Chimango Pete
(from the other 'down under')

Member NRA (life), SASS (life 'El Chimango Pete' #20037), Muzzle Loaders, other clubs in Argentina. Firearms Instructor
On ICQ "Buzzard-Pete"

February 24, 1999, 01:38 PM
The one about the Kentucky rifle is a good one. How about some satin jackets? could get them on a as per order item? with members name above left breast.

Justice for one,Justice for all.

February 24, 1999, 02:16 PM
I love Grayfox's "Ammunition for your Mind" idea.

El Chimango Pete
February 24, 1999, 05:17 PM
On the other hand there is some advantage in using the word "hoplophobia" just imagine...

Non Gun Person (NGP): "Hey! what does that mean?"
You snap out your portable soap box, assemble it quickly and start

"Its an unreasonable fear of weapons... etc."

A great opportunity for spreading the gospel!

:) El Chimango Pete
"... from the down under where time is normal and everybody knows what day it is"

February 24, 1999, 06:37 PM
My vote goes for "Ammunition For Your Mind"

with a the TFL logo and a Kentucky rifle on top with a Glock on the bottom. Old to new topics of discussion symbology.

For the tshirt put the forum listing on the back; the polo just have the logo.

I also like the idea of polo shirts, although I just want a TFL shirt :)

Freedom is not Free

February 24, 1999, 10:55 PM
Just for the record "Ammunition for your mind" was Jeff Thomas' idea. Give credit where credit is due. :)

I like the crossed rifle and pistol idea. But, the point about pure military weapons is well taken. How about a flintlock and an olympic target rifle at the top with a peacemaker and a bullseye 1911 at the bottom?

Jeff Thomas
February 27, 1999, 11:45 PM
Thanks, Grayfox. It occurred to me only after reading your idea and Raymond's.

So, Rich, do you need any capital to get the t-shirts going?

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited February 27, 1999).]

Rich Lucibella
February 28, 1999, 11:09 AM
Thanks for the offer, Jeff. There's enough stashed back for this, if we get an acceptable design and comittments for purchase.

Rich Lucibella
February 28, 1999, 12:31 PM
This thread is getting a bit long in the tooth (slow loading). Please feel free to continue it as a "Part Deux".