View Full Version : Need some help with this one....

July 9, 2008, 10:04 AM
Anybody have a clue what this is?????? It was inherited and I have zero information, other than it is supposed to be a 16 gauge and is believed to be German. If you know what it is, do you have a value estimate? Thanks!





July 9, 2008, 10:05 AM




July 9, 2008, 10:06 AM





These are the only written words on the whole gun. It is on the barrel, left side.

July 9, 2008, 10:08 AM



Thanks for any info!

July 9, 2008, 10:17 AM
It'll be German; "nitro beschuss" means essentially "nitro proved", or "good for nitro powders". If you take the forearm off and separate the barrels from the receiver, there should be a series of proof marks that will let us narrow down when and where it was built, and possibly some maker's marks. If this gun is typical, there may be some Germanic writing along the top of the rib, but it can be easy to overlook.

July 9, 2008, 10:28 AM
Thanks, I will take it down tonight and see what I can find. Should I expect to find a serial number or anything like that? Thanks!

July 9, 2008, 10:30 AM
Also, I know nothing about shotguns. What's a forearm?:D

July 9, 2008, 10:45 AM
the piece of wood at the front of the arm.

July 9, 2008, 10:48 AM
Duh :o Thanks Oli.:D

July 9, 2008, 11:00 AM
from what I see in your pics there is a push-button at the front-most of the forearm. Push it and you should be able to get the piece free.

By removing the forearm, the barrels are also free.

July 9, 2008, 02:51 PM
Yes, there should be a serial number on the bottom of the barrels that matches a number on the receiver, showing that those parts were built to each other. To get the barrels off, you should open the gun to cock it, the close it back up again, press the button on the forearm to get it to release from the hanger on the bottom of the barrels, and then it'll come off in your hand. Then, you can open the gun up again with the thumb lever, and the barrels will tip down out of the receiver. The proof marks should be on both the flat part of the receiver (the "water table") and on the bottoms of the chamber parts of the barrels.

July 9, 2008, 03:13 PM
Thanks guys, hoping I will find something of use by doing this.

July 9, 2008, 04:22 PM
Ok here it is. Serial number is 393XX.





July 9, 2008, 04:23 PM




Need an ID and an approx. value range. Thanks!

Jim Watson
July 9, 2008, 05:16 PM
The illustrated shotgun was made in Belgium as shown by the (Crown)(oval)ELG mark. Other proof marks include those that came into use in 1924.

It is a 16 gauge with 65mm (2 9/16") chambers, not meant for current production 2 3/4" shells although I am sure a bunch of these guns have been shot with them without blowing up, just wearing a little faster.

Probably a "guild gun" made by assorted shops in the gunmakers' guild in some area of Belgium. Maybe the final assembler's name is coded by the DH mark, but these guns don't have brand names as we know them.

I won't guess a dollar value, but it is not a tremendously valuable gun.

July 9, 2008, 06:04 PM
the markings with the lion thing, the P.V, the R thing with the star above it....those are also on a belgian browning 16 gauge I have. What are those for, just signs for belgium as well? Any others have a theory? Thanks!

Jim Watson
July 9, 2008, 06:52 PM
No theory, it is a matter of Belgian law.

The (lion)PV means it has been proof tested with an overload of smokeless powder. The (star)R is the inspector's personal stamp. Other marks indicate measurements, inspections, or tests made as the gun went through the government proof house. Most industrialized foreign lands have proof laws requiring government test of guns before sale. We just depend on the factory tests and lawyers.

July 10, 2008, 05:45 AM
Sorry to mislead you on the "German" angle; as Jim says, this shotgun was built in Belgium, and should have its chambers lengthened if you want to shoot it. The "DH" is likely the maker's mark, but finding out who used that mark can be a big problem, since many of the manufacturers of these went out of business quite some time ago.

Jeff Mulliken
July 10, 2008, 06:10 AM
The proof marks indicate that the chambers are 65 mm long. That is 2 9/16" and it was the most common 16 ga shell length when this gun was made.

You should not use 2 3/4" shells in this gun. However 2 1/2" shells are readily available from RST and can be used.

The value on most Belgian Guild guns is a couple of hundred dollars. This one is not in particularly good shape so I would guess $200 to $250.


July 10, 2008, 07:44 AM
Thanks guys, not looking to sell or shoot as it was passed down to us along with many other guns, just searching for info. Anyone care to guesstimate a date for this gun? Thanks!