View Full Version : EAG Carbine Carthage NC, 15-17Feb2008

Pat Rogers
February 19, 2008, 06:36 PM
EAG conducted a Carbine Operators Course at the Trigger Time facility in Carthage, NC.

Trigger Time is an excellent facility with a great staff, TT’s owner, Tom Bullin, is a great guy who has been in business for a long time and had a great background.

WX was spectacular for T1 and T1, a lucky break for us with the unsettled WX in the country this winter. T3 started off with threatening skies but only a few sprinkles. Once more the WX gods have smiled upon us….

I set the pace for the course by managing to get mis orientated on the trip out on T1. The GPS wouldn’t accept the school address. I didn’t differentiate between, “road” and “lane” etc. Mega egg on face, though we still (barely) arrived on time.

This class had the usual eclectic population of military, other DoD, cops, Feds and average guys. The mix is always interesting and welcome. The diversity of personnel leads to a terrific interchange of conversation regarding both real world and training applications of equipment. There were a number of friends in this class, including two who just returned from the show. One other Shooter had to leave for an OCONUS trip in the middle of T2, a real shame.

A nice touch was Bobby Sivori, a retired NYPD ESU guy who was getting spun up for an OCONUS job. Bobby has never touched an M4, and has more plastic/ metal replacement parts than Lee majors, but still managed to function at a high level. I knew Bobby from the day, and it was nice having somebody who spoke a language I could understand.

We had 5 T&E guns in this class. Two Sully guns on a lube test as well as three LWRC guns (there was a fourth LWRC gun in the class belonging to a retired USAF Col. as well). This is the second class for the Sully guns (appx 2600 rounds) and the first for the LWRC. We’re doing a long term eval on the LWRC carbines (appx 6 months) and will eventually publish this in SWAT Magazine (similar to the S&W M&P 15 Article).

Equipment issues:

We keep on stating that one should not fall in love with your magazines. One shooter had several of those old Brit steel SA80 mags. They didn’t work. We offered him several of the BCM magazines which we have just for this purpose. He refused, because he “liked” his. In a short time, he saw the bright shining light indicating that he had a malfunction 90% of the time he pressed the trigger and was holding up those that brought serviceable gear to class, and finally accepted the BCM magazines.
We had a lot of PMAG’s in the class. The only problem noted was one that would not seat properly in a RRA gun- but would in Colt’s, LWRC etc.
The more I see, the more I am convinced that my choice in using PMAG’s and BCM mags is correct.
We had only two gun problems. A brand new Armalite would not cycle. The buffer spring was appx 1.5” short; the extractor and extractor spring were NG. We replaced all and it ran like a top for the rest of the week.
A BM (with appx 250 rds on it) would not run at all. The gas key was not staked properly. However, the key had 3 pin prick type stakes, something we haven’t seen on a BM before. The shooter had sent the bolt someplace to be plated and it is possible that they switched the BCG -after all, parts are parts……;( .
That is sarcasm for those not used to it.

The extractor spring was too weak to function (4 coil, blue insert). The gun eventually became so problematic that Mike Hueser gave him his Noveske gun- which went down- as did this shooters 1911. This led us to consider that the shooter was in fact Bilé, and could be the true firearms Toxic Avenger.
I eventually gave him one of the T&E LWRC guns, which he couldn’t break.

This particular BM was topped with a unknown brand holo type optic that didn’t make it through the zeroing exercise. He finished with a loaner Aimpoint.

“Just as good as”, isn’t. That is a fact, and not just an observation.

One shooter had pressure problems with his WW White Box. Primers kept on popping…

At every class we see people who perform under stress. Some do it well, and some struggle, but here is a common thread.
Most people can shoot, though the quality of the finished product varies. Shooting is only one part of the equation, and you don’t have to be a world class technical shooter to win a fight. Indeed, an average/ above average shooter who has deeply embedded mean genes may be a better guy to have on your right flank.
Where we see good shooters fail is when we force them to multi task. While we all “know” that only chicks can multi task, man can do it if properly trained.
The majority of issues surface in manipulation- the hand jive that creeps up to bitch slap some in the face. Execute a speed reload? Pretty simple.
Do it under time constraints?
Do it as an individual- while all are watching?

Do it with tight accuracy constraints?
Do multiple reloads in one drill?

Adding any/ all of the above creates a complexity to the underlying drill, and the unnecessary movements of some/ many show how uncomfortable they truly are.
We often talk about the comfort zone- that which denotes that limited set of behaviors that a person will engage without becoming anxious.

Some have an extended comfort zone, and some a more limited one. Those without good initial training and continuous sustainment training will revert to something akin to someone with ADHD, except they have loaded guns in their paws.
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast, and practice most definitely does not make perfect.
It only makes permanent. The more that we do, under the eyes of a critic, will make us better.
If not, well, there is always room at the barber college.

Thanks to Mike Hueser for his patience and skill at keeping guns running and people on track. Thanks as well to Rob K for setting this up and Tim Bullin for allowing us to use the range.

As always, mega kudos to those who continue to support us all; Larue Tactical, TangoDown, CamelBak, Viking Tactics, Bravo Company, Noveske and Crye.

gordo b.
February 19, 2008, 07:05 PM
This was the most informative thread I have read on the error net in ages (since a Ned Christianson one ) about specific real time issues that matter to me. Thanks brother, see you in Aug. !:D

Pat Rogers
February 19, 2008, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I usually don't post AAR's on this site as the population has other priorities.
Which class will you be in??