PDA

View Full Version : US Made 1911s


bbrian
November 14, 2007, 12:13 PM
I’m thinking about buying a new 1911 and was leaning toward a Springfield Mil_Spec or TRP. However when I was looking at a thread called “Let’s see your 1911’s” I noticed something disturbing on two Springfield’s. They both said “MADE IN BRAZIL – IMBEL”. No offense to anyone, but if I wanted a gun made in Brazil, I’d just buy a Taurus and save a few bucks.

Am I being naïve to think that US gun manufacturers should manufacture their guns in, I don’t know, the US?

So really I have two questions.

1. Which 1911s are still made in the US?
2. Should I get over the fact that quality guns will be made outside the US and focus on the quality of the gun, not where it was made?

Thanks

DonR101395
November 14, 2007, 12:30 PM
Strictly my opinion and I'm sure I'll need a flame suit, but.............

Springfield is the only mass produced 1911 I would consider. Kimber makes a nice looking pistol, but IMO the QC/QA on them is lacking and they have far too many guns going on the market that need tweeking to get them to run reliably. If I want a reliable assembled in the US 1911 I'll go to one of the custom or semi-custom builders; like NightHawk, Les Baer or Rock River.


Edit: I left Colt off my list just because around here I have an easier time finding anything except a Colt on the shelf. I do love my Colt's though.

Wiskey_33
November 14, 2007, 12:36 PM
Kimber is made in NY...if that counts.

I believe that SA is forged in Brazil and sent to Illinoise to be finished....but I see what you mean. I don't want that stamped all over my pistol either. They do make great guns though.

Kimbers are hit or miss on quality. I've had 2 that were top notch, but a lot of people are saying that they are not as good as they used to be.

Solution? By an older Kimber.

Rinspeed
November 14, 2007, 12:51 PM
Save your money and buy a RRA or Les Baer.

RickB
November 14, 2007, 12:52 PM
All the high-end guns are made in the U.S.; I don't think you can get a Valtro (Italian) anymore. At the mass-production level, Colt, Kimber, Auto Ordnance, at least, are made here. Personally, I have not seen a positive correlation of price and reliability. Higher-end guns will tend to be more durable, due to better parts and fit, but reliability is as much about proper dimensions and tolerances (and magazines), as anything, and even a basic Colt or Springer should run.

sholling
November 14, 2007, 02:45 PM
I believe the S&W is made here, so is Kimber (mine works 100%), I'm not sure what Colt is doing I rarely see their pistols anymore. I'd avoid Auto Ordnance. I'm saving for the S&W myself. I'm very impressed with the quality and the stock trigger.

rellascout
November 14, 2007, 02:50 PM
Dan Wesson get the best of both worlds.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products_dan_wesson.php

http://www.cz-usa.com/data/productimg/main066.png

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 03:10 PM
I'll let Tim Lau, Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers speak to the issue of Kimber quality.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/kimber_warrior.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/kimber_warrior_2.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/kimber_warrior_3.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/kimber_warrior_4.jpg

For those of you who don't know these gentlemen: http://www.10-8consulting.com/index.php

Kimber has clearly gone from good to bad over the course of the last few years. One can only speculate as to why Kimber has fallen so far in terms of quality, but the evidence is quite clear.

As for Springfield, if having "made in Brazil" bothers you, buy a TRP, Operator or any other Springer with a serial number prefixed with NM. Those are built from raw forgings that are cut, finished and assembled right here in the United States and there isn't a finer $1k range 1911 made.

Wildalaska
November 14, 2007, 03:10 PM
Colts are all US made and the best made 1911s out there...they are just hard to get, even for one such as us.

S&Ws are all US made. SIGs are all US made. RRA are Filipino. Kimbers use off shore parts (as I am told)


WildwhodidileaveoutAlaska ™

Colt, S&W or SIG should fit the bill.

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 03:18 PM
I agree that S&W, Colt and Sig are all great handguns.

rellascout
November 14, 2007, 03:19 PM
I like Colt and Sig of those three. I am not a fan of the schwartz safety in the S&W. If they switched that I would own one.

HisSoldier
November 14, 2007, 03:22 PM
Once again I have to stick my hand up and yell My kimber works 100%!

Does anyone else in this forum feel there is deliberate smear campaign going on against Kimber? I prefer the Kimber FPS over Colt's, though I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Colt. I have nothing against Springfields either and may buy one someday. So, having no ax to grind here, I ask, does anyone else have an ax to grind? Ok, someone got a faulty Kimber, has anyone ever gotten a faulty Springfield?
By the way, my next purchase will probably be an Olympic arms Trailboss with custom features, and I'm pretty sure, made in America.:)

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 03:28 PM
Yeah, we all know Hilton Yam, Larry Vickers, and Tim Lau are engaged in a "smear campaign" against Kimber. They removed Kimber from their "Recommended for Duty 1911" list because they have nothing better to do.

It's a fact that Kimbers quality is lacking as of late and more and more people (including top smiths) are noticing and commenting on it.

rellascout
November 14, 2007, 03:32 PM
Yeah, we all know Hilton Yam, Larry Vickers, and Tim Lau are engaged in a "smear campaign" against Kimber. They removed Kimber from their "Recommended for Duty 1911" list because they have nothing better to do.

It's a fact that Kimbers quality is lacking as of late and more and more people (including top smiths) are noticing and commenting on it.

Rumor has it that is not the case anymore. When you know who left Kimber he took all that with him over to Sig. :D

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 03:35 PM
Considering the posts quoted above are 10 days or less old, I think the problems are still present. :)

azredhawk44
November 14, 2007, 03:45 PM
I wouldn't consider a Sig GSR a safe gun to buy for "out of the box and into the holster" consideration.

My GSR Revolution required two trips to a gunsmith and a trip to SigArms in New Hampshire before it became reliable.

It is now reliable, and I love it... but it was not a good gun out of the box.

I also strongly doubt that the Kimber smith who left and came to Sig knew what he was doing. The first-gen GSR's predate him, but the "Revolution" line was supposed to be his baby. Mine is a "Ricochet" model, a limited run that is not even a production gun listed in their catalogs for that period. Lots of Revolutions had the same problems I had, going back to Sig in droves. This "wundersmith" may have fixed stuff for the gen-3 GSR's, but he sure didn't get it right for the Gen-2's.

rellascout
November 14, 2007, 03:53 PM
I wouldn't consider a Sig GSR a safe gun to buy for "out of the box and into the holster" consideration.

My GSR Revolution required two trips to a gunsmith and a trip to SigArms in New Hampshire before it became reliable.

It is now reliable, and I love it... but it was not a good gun out of the box.

I also strongly doubt that the Kimber smith who left and came to Sig knew what he was doing. The first-gen GSR's predate him, but the "Revolution" line was supposed to be his baby. Mine is a "Ricochet" model, a limited run that is not even a production gun listed in their catalogs for that period. Lots of Revolutions had the same problems I had, going back to Sig in droves. This "wundersmith" may have fixed stuff for the gen-3 GSR's, but he sure didn't get it right for the Gen-2's.

My GSR has been all good. Ran well for the previous owner right out of the box and that continues to this day for me.

The joke I made about Kimber and Sig does not refer to a gun smith. It refers to Ron J. Cohen

President and Chief Executive Officer


Ron J. Cohen is President and Chief Executive Officer of SIG SAUER®.

Mr. Cohen joined the company in December of 2004 as the Company's Chief Operating Officer. He was named President and Chief Executive Officer on April 1, 2005.

Prior to joining the company, Mr. Cohen served as General Manager of Kimber Manufacturing, since its inception on the East Coast in 1996. Born in the USA, Mr. Cohen studied engineering at Technion, in Haifa, Israel. He also served as a combat field commander in the Israeli Army.

Many die hard Sig owners call his moves as Sig President as the Kimberization of Sig.

AJD21
November 14, 2007, 03:56 PM
1. I'd look at Colt for US made 1911's.

2. If I have the choice, I'll always go for American made firearms. Colt, US Firearms, Smith & Wesson and Remington to name some of my favorites US firearm companies.

For certain firearm designs alot of your best options are going to be guns made outside the US(Over/Under shotguns could be an example). But with the 1911 you can find a number of quality 1911 models made in the US.

RickB
November 14, 2007, 05:04 PM
RRA - Rock River Arms - is in Illinois. RIA - "Rock Island Armory" - is from the Philippines.
Colt's "reputation" for poor QC was applied at a time when they dominated the 1911 market, selling about 30,000 a year. Now, Kimber is selling 30,000 a year, and their reputation has taken a hit, while Colt's is about about as good as it's been since the 1970s. Is there a correlation between dominating the market in terms of sales, and not being able to maintain good QC? Is it lack of inspectors, resting on one's laurels, or ?

HisSoldier
November 14, 2007, 05:16 PM
I sure like my Kimber. Love my Colt too. I do feel an affinity for both because they are made here.
I've got quite a few guns made elsewhere, but we are talking about a 1911, it should be made here. Whoever is paying has to make that decision. Even if Kimber was below standard quality, and I do not believe it for a second, it would still be made in America. What I've seen on the surface grinding of Springfields is horrible waves that indicate that the wheel is not being dressed, mit cannot be hidden and looks cheap. If I bought one I'd have to go through a bunch and see if I can find one with flat surface grinding. Kimber would never make one like that.

cryption
November 14, 2007, 06:03 PM
My springfield is made in Croatia, that's cool with me. Just because it's stamped made in brazil doesn't mean it doesn't have the springfield quality. I trust my life to their product on a daily basis and plan to continue to.

shield20
November 14, 2007, 06:55 PM
I have had the best luck with my S&W - it has been 100% reliable, and the QC was apparently excellent. (have heard of issues though from others)

Not so lucky on my Colts, or my Kimber. I avoid Springfield because of the 2 piece barrel, and typically the 2 piece spring guide, though I think I would try them next.

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 07:43 PM
If I bought one I'd have to go through a bunch and see if I can find one with flat surface grinding. Kimber would never make one like that.

You mean Kimber didn't make these? Never say never.

A "custom" Grand Raptor:
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/raptor_rail_flaw.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/Raptor6copy.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/_MG_8756.jpg
<img src="http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/Raptor1copy.jpg">

This isn't some run of the mill Kimber, this is a "Custom Shop" gun.

Here's an example of Kimbers superior machining.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/tle_5.jpg

That's pretty impressive.

They also like to make their superior stainless guns out of stainless that's low in nickel (as a cost cutting measure) which means in many cases their superior guns rust on the gun shelves.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/ultra_carry.jpg

Let's not mention their superior fit...
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/tle_1.jpg

We've had this discussion countless times and everyone knows Kimbers quality is in the crapper. Men like Larry Vickers and Hilton Yam have noted it and I'm sorry, but they know far more about what makes a good 1911 than you or I do.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from being happy with your Kimber. I'm glad you have one that works and you're happy with it. But when someone asks "which 1911 should I get" I'm going to give them the facts and let them decide for themselves.

HisSoldier
November 14, 2007, 08:23 PM
I didn't see wavy surface grinding, nope. We've seen your pics before, do you think Springfield hasn't sent out a few bad apples? I've never seen a Kimber like that, doesn't mean there haven't been some, and I'd bet there have been some bad QC from Springfield too. I'm not talking about one or two bad grind jobs, I'm talking about one or two good grind jobs in a rack of Springfields. Heck, I've got a piece of garbage Llama that has much higher quality surface grinding, and that's about the bottom of the stack for quality guns I've seen. What I'm saying is that it appears that Springfield doesn't even care about the quality of their surface grinding finishes, on an average gun. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am.

schmeky
November 14, 2007, 08:38 PM
I believe Kimber is having QC problems, to a degree. Anyone that makes 30,000 guns a year will have some issues. With that said, I had Colt years ago that was really junky.

I have a new Colt XSE that has some fitting issues with the ejector. I also have new Colt Custom .38 Super and the slide lock does not work as precisely as a $1000.00+ gun should.

I have an early model Kimber Classic Custom I have had for over 15 years and it is a work of art, is utterly reliable, and is still tight.

I also have a Norinco that will shoot anything, all day long, accurately. Lastly, my dirt cheap Rock Island Armory in .38 Super has no issues at all and in some ways, is better fitted than my Colts.

Anything or anyone can have issues, Kimber being no exception.

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 10:21 PM
didn't see wavy surface grinding, nope. We've seen your pics before, do you think Springfield hasn't sent out a few bad apples? I've never seen a Kimber like that, doesn't mean there haven't been some, and I'd bet there have been some bad QC from Springfield too.
Yeah, the top gun smiths in the United States are telling people that Kimber has QC issues and have once listed them on their "approve duty 1911" list but recently removed them after compiling notes from most other top gun smiths in the US who work on 1911's and discovering Kimbers QC issues are wide spread and common knowledge.

Did you see this?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Kimber/kimber_warrior.jpg

You can stick your fingers in your ears and go "hummmmmm" for as long as you like but the fact is people aren't talking about the shoddy QC at Springfield, S&W, Colt, etc. but they are saying that Kimber "is more trouble than it's worth".

You can dismiss me or others on this forum but you can't dismiss top smiths like Yam, Vickers, etc.

You might want to look past your nose for a moment. If people call Kimber to task for their shoddy craftsmanship and hit them where it counts (pocketbook) then they will fix things and produce a consistently quality product. There is no denying it, Kimber is turning out guns with consistently out of spec chambers, extractors, ejectors, slide stops, etc. That's a well documented fact. It's not the periodical boo-boo or Friday gun, it's a day to day practice for them and it needs to be fixed.

Sturmgewehre
November 14, 2007, 10:26 PM
Show me a single comment from Yam, Vickers, Wilson, Brown, or anyone else who's made a name for themselves in the 1911 custom business that say that Springfield isn't recommended. Show me one top smith that has said Springfield has chamber, extractor, ejector, etc. consistently being out of spec issues.

I'll be waiting.

shepherddogs
November 14, 2007, 10:52 PM
I have found Kimbers to be superior 1911s. It's hard for me to understand how some are so good and others are worthless. Each one I have owned or shot has been outstanding.

DonR101395
November 14, 2007, 11:06 PM
Show me a single comment from Yam, Vickers, Wilson, Brown, or anyone else who's made a name for themselves in the 1911 custom business that say that Springfield isn't recommended. Show me one top smith that has said Springfield has chamber, extractor, ejector, etc. consistently being out of spec issues.

Sturm,
I agree with you and..................................

It looks like this thread is going the way a Colt vs. Bushmaster thread usually goes. You and the smiths are talking about hard use guns. Cosmetics aside, to many if they go out and it shoots 50-100 rounds a couple of weekends a month it's reliable and GTG. The chaff starts separating when you take it out and shoot 1500 rounds in a weekend a couple of times a year. That GTG Brand X looks less appealing when your clearing malfunctions while moving to cover and start thinking about what you would have done had it been a real two way range.

Just my $.02 YMMV

jdc1244
November 14, 2007, 11:15 PM
I only recommend guns I own – I only own Colt 1911s and they have been flawless. If you want an American made 1911 – and the original – I can recommend Colt.

I left Colt off my list just because around here I have an easier time finding anything except a Colt on the shelf. I do love my Colt's though.

Colts are all US made and the best made 1911s out there...they are just hard to get, even for one such as us.

Interesting.

The shop I visited today had a good selection of Colt 1911s, including a New Agent, minus the Series 70 I purchased. Should I go back and snap up a few more? :D

The Body Bagger
November 14, 2007, 11:27 PM
If it must be made in the USA then I also suggest Colt. With that being said Springfield Armory's 1911s, Brazilian as they may be, are pretty good.

DonR101395
November 14, 2007, 11:31 PM
The shop I visited today had a good selection of Colt 1911s, including a New Agent, minus the Series 70 I purchased. Should I go back and snap up a few more?

The few that I see around here fall into three catagories
1. Over priced(IMO) because an unknown person made an attempt to "customize" it.
I won't buy a gun someone I don't know tinkered with unless it's cheap and not too badly tweaked.

2. They are abused to the point that it's not worth the money to have a smith rebuild it.

3. They are way over priced "cause you just can't find them Colt's just anywhere. I've got the only two in town:rolleyes:". I've bought my last two on gunbroker, 1991 ORMs basically just for the frame and slide had them stripped down and rebuilt with Ed Brown/C&S parts.

skinewmexico
November 14, 2007, 11:32 PM
Yes, you are naive to think that Springfield is a US manufacturer. Get an STI.

HisSoldier
November 14, 2007, 11:59 PM
I find the general tone of some in this forum rude and condescending, have a nice time patting each other on the backs.

Sturmgewehre
November 15, 2007, 12:18 AM
You find those who disagree with you "condescending". You find those who quote respected smiths as being "rude".

You try to claim everyone else (Springfield) has the same, or more pronounced, quality issues and when presented with facts (pictures and quotes from highly respected smiths) that counter your accusations... you claim everyone is rude and condescending.

jabotinsky
November 15, 2007, 09:56 AM
To answer your question, I prefer to buy U.S., but bought a Springer because it was a quality 1911 for under $500, customer service is friendly and U.S.-based. I'd prefer not to buy products from Saudi, Syria, Iran and a few others...my Toyota lets me buy less oil from some of those, the Toyota's made in the U.S. It gets confusing. I think Colt and Springfield are both corporate entities interested in profit, not bettering the world. Right now a GI can be had for $450, the cheapest Colt government is around $700; Brazilians are smart folks with good steal... Hello, Reo...Reo by the Sea-O, Max & Leo in Reo de Janeiro!

HisSoldier
November 15, 2007, 10:21 PM
Sturm, I said the surface grinding I've seen on Springers is awful, that's my opinion based on many many years of having a production machine shop with surface grinders. I didn't say anything else about your beloved Sringfields, in fact I said I'd like to buy one someday. But youwould never lower yourself to own a Kimber I guess, and trash me every time I try to express my opinion.
Well, all I can say is I feel sorry for people who make enemies of potential friends so fast. Someone else assumed I didn't shoot ten million rounds a month or something so my opinion didn't matter, stupidist statement in the thread considering what I do for a living, I know about quality machining and design. My Kimber is tighter than any 1911 I've ever seen, never fails to fire whatever I've put to it, and is extremely accurate. It had exactly Zero flaws in it when I pulled it out of the box. I haven't held a Wilson or Baer but I assume they are better than my Kimber, and cost more for a reason, that doesn't make my Kimber bad. You can make any caustic comments you want to now, I've had it with you and this thread.

The Body Bagger
November 15, 2007, 10:24 PM
Well the bottom line is that you are happy with your Kimber. I know of several other fellow officers who have them as their primary duty weapon and they feel much the same. Would I buy a Kimber? No, its not my cup of tea, I'm more of a......... GLOCK guy.:)

DonR101395
November 15, 2007, 10:53 PM
Someone else assumed I didn't shoot ten million rounds a month or something so my opinion didn't matter, stupidist statement in the thread considering what I do for a living, I know about quality machining and design. My Kimber is tighter than any 1911 I've ever seen, never fails to fire whatever I've put to it, and is extremely accurate.

Kinda touchy aren't you? Nobody said your opinion didn't count. And my assessment of the thread was correct. It's no different that the my brand X AR15 is the best no matter what anyone says. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes, Kimber can even put out a good pistol sometimes.

Hunter0924
November 15, 2007, 11:31 PM
Another vote for Colt, for a number of reasons.

Sturmgewehre
November 15, 2007, 11:33 PM
I didn't say anything else about your beloved Sringfields, in fact I said I'd like to buy one someday. But youwould never lower yourself to own a Kimber I guess, and trash me every time I try to express my opinion.
Lower myself? LOL. Well I guess the two I owned don't count. Of the two I owned, one I sent back to Kimber twice and twice it was returned to me in as bad or worse shape that it was sent out in. The other just bobbled every 100 rounds or so, nothing major but enough for me to trade it for something more useful.

Making enemies of potential friends? You're the one attacking me, or that's how I see it. I've expressed my congratulations on your flawless, better than every other 1911 Kimber and I sincerely mean it. Trust me, there are thousands upon thousands of other Kimbers owners out there that wish they had your gun but like me, got stuck with lemon(s).

If you're willing to shake hands and be friends, so am I. I have no beef with you and I don't wish to argue with you. I concede the point you've made that your handgun is perfect. I don't believe Springfields are above imperfections. But what I do know is that when I've had problems with a Springfield (one time 10 years ago) I sent the firearm back to them and within 2 weeks I had it fixed and upgraded with free improvements. When I had problems with my Kimber I waited 3 weeks and both times I got the same problems back and a couple of new ones for my trouble.

The simple fact is that Kimber once made a consitently quality product years ago. Today they make a consitently shoddy product with the few good performers. I've not only noticed this but so have very well respected gun smiths. Perhaps you have an old Kimber or one of the few current ones that seem to be ok (although chances are something is out of spec but it happens to work ok for you). Either way I don't intend to belittle your personal Kimber. But I want those who are looking to buy a 1911 to know is that you run an inordinately high risk of getting a lemon if you buy Kimber due to their lack of quality control. If you buy Colt, S&W, Springfield, or even Taurus you're more likely to not have any problems. Does that mean Colt, S&W, Springfield or Taurus don't have the occasional flaw? Of course not. But if you do purchase a 1911 with a problem, chances are Springfield will have it fixed immediately and properly the first time whereas it's a crap shoot with companies like Taurus and Kimber.

Sturmgewehre
November 15, 2007, 11:34 PM
Kimber can even put out a good pistol sometimes.
Exactly, unfortunately for them just not as consitently as Springfield, Colt, S&W or even Taurus.

BigJimP
November 16, 2007, 07:19 PM
Of the mass produced 1911's I think Springfield is doing a better job than Kimber, Colt, etc. Are they doing as good a job as the custom shops like Wilson, Les Baer and Ed Brown - no way.

But these things run in cycles - and all companies put out some stinkers - even Wilson, Baer and Brown. But right Now I would put Wilson and Brown at the top of the list - followed in 3rd by Baer - then the rest (STI, etc ).

But, in my opinion, the margins are pretty thin on handguns and I think in handguns, and guns in general, you often get what you pay for - and time to custom fit, time in the shop, higher quality components all cost more money.

varoadking
November 16, 2007, 08:04 PM
Kimbers quality is in the crapper.

Always has been, IMHO...

shepherddogs
November 16, 2007, 08:23 PM
Like I said before, every Kimber I have encountered has been excellent. I'm talking fit, finish and function. Very accurate. I think Sturm just got a bad one and he's still POd. I'm the same way every time I hear the word Keltec, but I promise they're junk.:barf::)

G&G
November 16, 2007, 08:50 PM
How big is Kimber's advertising budget? :confused: It's got to make up a healthy percentage of the total sale price. That being said, to keep prices competitive, they've got to cut corners somewhere else. I got my first 1911 3 weeks ago. A Dan Wesson Commander Bobtail. Lots of Ed Brown parts in it. No problems. Nothing to tweak. A very good pistol for under $1K. I've heard of Kimbers problems and that's why I went in another direction.

http://www.gunblast.com/DanWesson-CommanderClassic.htm

Just my .02

Ken O
November 16, 2007, 09:05 PM
About 20 years ago I got invited to go to an ISPC match, I shot using a borrowed gun. The only guns I saw on the lines there were Colt 1911s, I was told that was the gun to get and got several cards for gunsmiths to "get them to function right". My friend paid a grand for a Gold Cup that would not shoot out of the box but a gunsmith did a fine job of making it shoot right. That was the norm at the time, I figured if I'm going to have to have it gunsmithed, I'm buying a Springfield for half the price.

I bought a bare bones Springfield and the thing shot just fine right out of the box. My Colt friends thought it was unbelievable, I also like the 70 series trigger over the 80 series the Colts were using. I was the only one shooting anything other than Colt, soon after there were very few new Colts being bought, it seemed Kimber was the one to have and they shot out of the box, and my cheap Springfield kept shooting with no problem. Colt's quality was as low as any gun could get, maybe because they seem to have a lock on the market.

I'm real glad they got their act together (according to the posts above), but I wonder why I seldom see them in matches any more. Can you buy a new Colt now and go shoot a competition without any gunsmithing? I'm not talking plinking here, real competition.

I am a .45 fan, I shoot in any competition in driving distance, IDPA, ISPC, Steel Challeng, Pins, PPC. etc, etc. I also shoot my other .45s like my S&W 625 (my favorite) Glock 21, XD45 Tac. I would like to add a Colt in there some day.

shepherddogs
November 16, 2007, 09:41 PM
The guy who owns the local gun shop told me Kimber sells more 1911s than all other makers combined. Don't know if thats true but maybe thats why more people have problems. Every one I have encountered has been excellent. I only owned 1 Springfield. It was the MilSpec with bigger sights, lowered ejection port and a few other basic perks. It was very reliable, fairly accurate and just a little loose slide to frame. Trigger was hard and just a bit gritty. It didn't even come close to the Kimbers in the tolerance department.:)

varoadking
November 16, 2007, 09:50 PM
S&W make a nice looking pistol, but IMO the QC/QA on them is lacking and they have far too many guns going on the market that need tweeking to get them to run reliably.

This is the first complaint I have heard about a S&W 1911. Did you own one?

The guy who owns the local gun shop told me Kimber sells more 1911s than all other makers combined.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/pig.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/yelrotflmao.gif

DonR101395
November 16, 2007, 10:06 PM
This is the first complaint I have heard about a S&W 1911. Did you own one?

I borrowed one for a few months while I was having a Commander built. I put 1500-1800 rounds through it. Accuracy was quite good, fit and finish were nice, but I couldn't find mags that it liked. Tried CMC, Colt and Novaks all that I had on hand and that were known to work and are working in my currents guns. My comment regarding the S&W was simply based on a sampling of one. I'll modify if you like, since after re-reading what I wrote you're correct and it's not a fair sampling or statement, especially since I can't remember anyone else having a problem with a S&W.

Sturmgewehre
November 16, 2007, 10:18 PM
I think Sturm just got a bad one and he's still POd.
...and because I got a bad one I called up my personal friends Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers and had them make public comments that Kimbers are poorly made and are "more trouble than they're worth".

LOL

Sturmgewehre
November 16, 2007, 10:21 PM
It didn't even come close to the Kimbers in the tolerance department.

Yeah, in post #23 (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2575415&postcount=23) in this thread we got a good look at Kimbers superior fit and finish. I don't know how any other 1911 makers can compete.

Hehe.

...and these poorly made Springfields... how they stay in business I'll never know.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/4.jpg

shepherddogs
November 16, 2007, 10:25 PM
Like I said you got a bad one. Hey I lost Hiltons number. Have you got it handy?:D