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View Full Version : Pre-California Ban - Classics you must own


FISHNFRANK
October 29, 2007, 08:36 AM
All,

You folks have probably read it somewhere; CA has passed a microstamp law that says after Jan 1, 2010, all semi-auto's must have this technology. It will be a crime to re-sell those guns that do not -(as I understand it - I may be wrong). The effect of this law will be to drastically reduce the brands and number of semi-auto's available in CA.

So to that end - barring any successful legal challenges - I have 2 years to round out my collection (probably less because I would imagine about 6 months before the ban; semi's will get scarce).

I own (other than revolvers, which are not affected by the law):

1. Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 acp (blue)
2. Colt Commander .45 acp (stainless)
3. FN High Power 9mm (black)

I want to buy a few more (2-3) semi's- what should they be? Fill out the wish list. A Sig 226 .40 might be where I'm leaning first. I might buy another 1911. What else should I consider?

1.
2.
3.

Frank

(p.s. - Make sure you join and support the NRA because this legislation is probably coming to a legislature near you. I've also bought some semi shotguns recently because CA will probably be the first state to totally ban the action)

HighValleyRanch
October 29, 2007, 09:04 AM
No semi-auto classic collection could be complete without owning a GLOCK!

Classic would be first generation model 17, or ANY glock 19.
9mm is the classic. But then any glock would fit the bill for part of you overall collection.

SW52 is the most classic target semi,
or Sig 210...if you could afford one
then don't forget a smith model 41....premo of the .22 targets,
unless you get into the european exotics, then hammerli 208's

Walther PPK

I'm in CA, so in the same boat! Will be buying many guns in the next couple of years too!

Manedwolf
October 29, 2007, 09:17 AM
Classic would be first generation model 17, or ANY glock 19.

Early Glocks? Complete with the lack of case support that caused the kabooms? :confused:

I would suggest:

Classic 1911s...the Argentine M1927's are still reasonably priced. I just got a Detonics, that's sure to be a classic!

ANY SIG....Based on their recent letter, they've strongly hinted that they will not do microstamping, it's not worth their investment just for CA. So you won't ever be able to purchase the perfection that is a SIG in California ever again. Get them now! Definitely a P220, and if you want a classic, get a German one!

IMTHDUKE
October 29, 2007, 10:08 AM
OK...this I like. It's like makin out a Christmas gift list for yourself.:)

If you want to own something new, a high dollar and high quality .45....Ed Brown Kobra Carry
http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/edbrown.jpg

Then if you want something small an R9, oh Cal wont like this at all.

http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/R9.jpg

Then if you want to own something very different, a H&K P7 Titanium coated.
http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/hkp7_big.jpg

Or wait for the PX4 subcompact to hit the stores Jan. 08

http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/Px4Storm_subcompact.jpg

Or right now go for a Kimber Covert Ultra II
http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/ultracovert.jpg

So many guns and so little money.

Officer's Match
October 29, 2007, 01:01 PM
I would agree that you gotta' have at least one Glock, and for me the 23 covers so many bases. If you don't want a 40, I'd definitely go 19 or 30.

Manedwolf
October 29, 2007, 01:07 PM
That P7 needs burlwood grips.

Also, I wouldn't worry about Glock. They'll probably comply and do microstamping. So will S&W.

Baba Louie
October 29, 2007, 02:18 PM
It will be a crime to re-sell those guns that do not.You have GOT to be kidding. :eek:

Either the laws intent is to make new criminals out of law abiding citizens or to make new criminals out of law abiding citizens. In other words, not to "Stop" crime, but to create yet MORE crime. (Question, are LE Agencies weaponry exempt from this microstamping nonsense?)

What happens when old Uncle Fred dies and his collection of WWI and WWII Lugers, valued at $50,000+ enter probate? Do they just mysteriously disappear prior to probate, only to turn up in NV, AZ and OR or elsewhere or is there any mechanism to keep them from being destroyed or turned over to LE Agencies for their own hand-pick illicit collection enhancement (tongue in cheek... I know that such things have never occurred in real life)

But all that is rhetorical and I don't need anyone to waste their time trying to answer (thread drift) when the OP was on SEMI-AUTO classics you must own, to which I reply:

BHP
1911
Luger
C96
HK P7
SIG P210
CZ75 (varients) or 97

Tho with the 1911 mfgs and CZ (as well as SIGS, Glocks, S&W, all new models, etc) I might assume that the mfgs will so desperately want the CA gun buyers $$ that they'll comply with microstamping in their lineup, thus making it mandatory for the rest of the US/world gun buyers to fall in line.

*sigh*

azredhawk44
October 29, 2007, 02:30 PM
Were I to stock up on "California" guns, I'd choose:

1. CZ-52
2. Glock 26 or XD9sc
3. Colt Commander

Guns aren't worth anything to me unless they are useable. Concealable, hard-punching firearms may have a certain value in California if it continues to pursue its gun-banning, ultra-leftist pro-Mexico path.

RevolverLover
October 29, 2007, 03:36 PM
AB 1471 provides that, after January 1, 2010, semiautomatic
pistols that are not already listed on the "safe handgun list"
maintained by the Department of Justice would be required to be
designed and equipped with "a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of
the pistol, and which are transferred by imprinting on each
cartridge case when the firearm is fired." This would apply
only to new models of semiautomatic pistols that a manufacturer
offered for sale in California after January 1, 2010 . Handgun
owners would not be required to turn in their previously
purchased handguns and gun dealers would still be permitted to
sell all the existing models that could be legally sold in
California (i.e., were on the "safe handgun list") prior to
January 1, 2010, that do not have this microstamping technology.

So according to AB 1471, the microstamping law only applies to new handguns that are not on the list.

sholling
October 29, 2007, 03:38 PM
It will be a crime to re-sell those guns that do notPlease show where the law says this... What I read was that microstamping is required (maybe) to make the approved list for importation for sale.

RevolverLover
October 29, 2007, 03:45 PM
Quote:
It will be a crime to re-sell those guns that do not

Please show where the law says this...


Please show me too because I do not remember reading that part of the law. The only part I read that it might be illegal would be to alter or remove the microstamping under PC 12090 but the way it was worded it doesn't seem like they were too sure they would be able to enforce it.

shield20
October 29, 2007, 03:49 PM
Another to say only NEW model guns introduced/wanting to be sold in CA will need the technology - exisiting models already listed will not need to be modified.

FirstFreedom
October 29, 2007, 05:15 PM
With what you already have, I would suggest (if it was me):

1. One or more CZs
2. One or more Sigs
3. More 1911s, custom or otherwise
4. HK P7
5. micro Kahr or Rohrbaugh for a deep cover concealed carry gun.

Your big name makers are still going to sell there - so buy the small/custom makers of good guns who can't afford to tool up for microstamping. With that in mind, I'd put Sig towards the bottom of the list, since they'll likely keep selling. Put custom shop 1911s high on the list, as these will go bye-bye.

IdahoG36
October 29, 2007, 08:30 PM
equipped with "a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of
the pistol, and which are transferred by imprinting on each
cartridge case when the firearm is fired."

Now lets just say you do quite a bit of shooting, and over time the handgun is unable to imprint this information onto the spent cartridges due to the characters being worn out. Then what do you do? Does your firearm become illegal until fixed? How would you notice, being that it's MICROSCOPIC? Also, how will it do with steel cased ammunition? Quite a bit harder than brass.

All I can say is that I'm glad I live in a gun friendly state that doesn't subject it's citizens to ridiculous and restrictive gun laws. In Idaho, if you purchase a handgun, you walk out with it that day. A concealed weapon permit is easier to get than a driver's license. I love it.:D

hamster
October 29, 2007, 08:33 PM
this is the first i've heard of this law. but now that i know about it, i think there're some guns i'll want to get. but wouldn't most major gun makers comply with the law eventually?

on my list:

CZ-75
USP45C
1911
maybe a glock or another sig

FISHNFRANK
October 29, 2007, 09:49 PM
All

It was my understanding that guns would not be able to be re-sold without this technology. I might be wrong there because I don't see that in the law text. A lot of guys are under the impression that this is the case. There has been a lot of confusion around this law.

As far as the DOJ approved handgun list - each gun on there has an expiration data and I would imagine that when the gun came up for renewal, the gun would not be re-approved without the technology. So if nothing else, it would eventually choke off new guns in the state without the technology.

Sorry if I provided false info - I do appreciate the suggestions though because there will be a reduction in the brands available if nothing else

Sample of the list for Colts: There is an expiration date on all

Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
07000D Defender Ltwgt Ser 90 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 3/11/2008
04012XSE Combat Commander / Stainless Steel (brushed) Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 10/30/2008
04091U / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 11/14/2008
04691 / Carbon Steel Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 11/14/2008
01070XSE / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 5/9/2008
01091 M1991A1 Ser 80 / Stainless Steel (matte) Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/11/2008
01980XSE / Carbon Steel (blue) Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/9/2008
01991 M1991A1 Ser 80 / Steel (matte blue) Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/11/2008
01991AR Custom M1991A1 / Blue Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/8/2008
01991Z Custom M1991 A1 / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/8/2008
I3060CS Python / Stainless Steel Revolver 6" .357 Magnum 7/24/2008


Frank

railroader
October 30, 2007, 12:12 AM
Guns on the list can be renewed yearly to stay on the list. Only new guns to be added to the list need to have a magazine disconnect and a loaded chamber indicator. The in 2010 new guns added to the list will also need to microstamp the ammunition. Here's the list, everything can stay on here as long as the BS fees are paid. http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ Mark

IMTHDUKE
October 30, 2007, 07:52 AM
http://www.treasureislandbedandbreakfast.com/images/GUNS/biggun.jpg

:D

FISHNFRANK
October 30, 2007, 08:01 AM
So - it sounds as if the Microstamp bill is not as bad as it has been made to sound? Guns that are already available, will continue to be available but new guns will need it.

A separate issue will probably be; will people want to buy guns with the technology? I know i'd sit on the sidelines for sure and I suspect that a lot of folks would as well

I love the picture of the M60 on steroids

Frank

Manedwolf
October 30, 2007, 08:12 AM
Wait till California bans importation of replacement parts for older, nonstamped guns as well.