View Full Version : Combat Shotguns

October 7, 2007, 06:50 PM
I'm looking To Buy Either A 12 gauge Mossberg 500/590 Persuader Or A 12 gauge Remington 870 For A Home Defense / Combat Shotgun... Which Would You Choose And Why. Preferably Pump.

i voted for the Mossberg 500 sp persuader but thats only cuz i'm not sure yet so you can ignore it for the most part.

October 7, 2007, 07:54 PM
I like the 590 basically because it is a heavier duty 500. They always go bang!

October 7, 2007, 08:03 PM
I want one of these.

October 7, 2007, 10:29 PM
just be greedy like me and get both:D

October 7, 2007, 11:06 PM
I voted 870 simply because that's what I use. You really can't go wrong with either one.

October 7, 2007, 11:20 PM
I have a Mossberg 500 and it is durable as hell but the Remington 870 always seemed to feel more "high quality". Either is a good bet.

Chris B
October 8, 2007, 02:17 AM
Some prefer the Mossberg because the manual of arms is the same for both left and right handed shooters. I like the 870 myself. Go with what feels better when you handle the weapon. Then once you buy it and clean it go to the range and practice, practice, practice.

October 8, 2007, 02:17 AM
I voted "other". I've got an FN Police which I love. It's basically a Winchester 1300 Defender but it has rifle sights and interchangeable chokes. It's considerably lighter and "handier" than both the Mossberg (which I used to have) and the 870. Because of the different chokes, it's much more versatile than most short shotguns. I successfully use it for informal clay pigeon shooting in the warm months, and it's also a fun super-plinker! Having said that though, you really can't go wrong with any of them.

October 8, 2007, 06:19 AM
just be greedy like me and get both
That's what I did, too. But if I had to choose I'd choose the Mossberg.

Smitty in CT
October 8, 2007, 10:38 AM
Mossberg 930 SPX


Who needs a pump......

October 8, 2007, 12:40 PM
Benelli M4 (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/m4.tpl) because I love my M1 Super 90 (http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1400/1461.htm).


October 8, 2007, 01:13 PM

I have had mine for about 2 years and couldn’t be happier with it, it has been 100% reliable with everything from my light target reloads (#8 shot) to max DRAM 3” magnum buckshot loads and can effortlessly cycle through 9 shells faster than I can pull the trigger, it's also one of the softest shooting 12ga shotguns that I have ever shot..

The M4 being designed to serve as the US military’s Joint Service Combat Shotgun (JSCS) (designated the M1014) is built for extremely rugged use in combat conditions and it is noticeably heaver than the M1 or M2 but the extra weight and ARGO (auto-regulating gas-operated) system of the M4 makes for a very fast, smooth and soft shooting platform.

The ARGO system will pretty much cycle everything other than super light loads like non-lethal and it will do so no matter how much extra weight is on the shotgun or how firmly it’s held.

The ARGO system is pretty simple and very clean running for a gas operated shotgun, the system consists of two cylinders, two stainless steel pistons and two stainless steel cylinder plugs that each contain a spring loaded pressure regulating bleed off valve.

A single hole in each cylinder that leads into the barrel just in front of the chamber channels the gas to power the pistons, the pistons only move about ¼” and push the bolt carrier back to unlock and cycle the action, the cylinder plugs help to keep an optimal pressure level in the cylinders by staying closed with low powered shells or opening up with hi powered shells to release excess gas pressure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/th_100_9664.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/100_9664.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/th_100_9648.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/100_9648.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/th_100_9641.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/100_9641.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/th_100_9659.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Mis/100_9659.jpg)

October 8, 2007, 01:31 PM
Remington 870 Express Magnum with 18 1/2" barrel for the closet. Throw on the second hand wingmaster barrel I picked up and go bust some clays on the weekend.

Smitty in CT
October 8, 2007, 01:42 PM
Mag capacity on the Benelli is only 4+1??

What is the "real" price of a Benelli M4?? I know MSRP is insane ($1600), but, what are they really selling for??

I paid $541.18 for my 930SPX, I'm trying to figure out how many I could buy for the price of an M4....

October 8, 2007, 10:09 PM
I paid just under $1500 for my M4 and to me it was worth every penny, I probably could have found one for a little less but availability of them was very hit and miss and at the time, my local shop hadn’t had one in over a year. I had heard that during that time most were going to federal law enforcement agency’s like the DEA and DHS as well several large SWAT teams.

The listed capacity of 4 in the tube is without the full length tube and with using 3” shells, as it comes the tube will hold 5 = 2-3/4” shells, with the full length tube (or equivalent using an extension) the tube will hold 7 = 2-3/4” or 6 = 3” shells.

Other than a chambered shell adding 1 to the capacity, the M4 is capable holding an additional shell on the shell carrier often referred to as to “floating" or “Ghosting” a shell.

So at max capacity with 2-3/4” shells the M4 will hold 7 in the tube + 1 floating on the carrier + 1 in the chamber, bring the total to 9.

Dave McC
October 8, 2007, 10:22 PM
The best combat shotgun is whichever one you've created a pile of empties at least knee high with.

The hardware is not the weakest link. We are.

Train until your shotgun of choice feels like a body part.

October 9, 2007, 01:04 AM
the 870 feels more solid to me. i dont own either but i shoot both often.
i want me a good hd 870.


October 9, 2007, 01:14 AM
Voted mossy cause my 870 jammed with snow in the action and my mossy hasn't... yet

October 9, 2007, 02:01 AM
scattergun tech's stuff, definitely

ya ya i know it's a massaged 870, but it's got the accessories I want and a solid rep.


October 9, 2007, 03:53 AM
I already have a 500 and I was so very tempted to pick up a barley used 590 with a bayonet even. and I want an 870 too. and a nova.

October 9, 2007, 06:26 AM
My top choice is the 18" 5+1 590. Add the Vang Comp +1 mag extension and you have an 18" 6+1 Mossberg 590. Same shotgun in service with the a large part of the USMC minus the mag extension(stamped M-500). The Army is using the 18" 5+1 500.

That said you won't go wrong woth the Remmy, I have a few......:rolleyes:

October 9, 2007, 08:57 AM
I like remmy better, they feel much more solid than the mossbergs.

Geoff Timm
October 9, 2007, 05:05 PM
How about the Mossberg 835 I don't know why they put a hole saw on the end of the barrel.


Who likes his short barrelled 20 gauge Mossberg 500 with rifle sights. :D

October 9, 2007, 05:36 PM
I love my 870..

I also find it funny how benelli designed a service weapon and went with gas operation instead of inertia. I guess all that "low recoil, most dependable" garbage really is just marketing.

October 9, 2007, 06:18 PM
USAlx50 = I also find it funny how benelli designed a service weapon and went with gas operation instead of inertia. I guess all that "low recoil, most dependable" garbage really is just marketing.

It's because the military wanted to have the option of mounting accessories to the shotgun, much like they are doing with the M4 Carbine.

The Inertia system is clean and reliable when used under the conditions and with the loads it was designed for but the system is sensitive to the added weight from accessories mounted to the shotgun such as lights, shell carriers and optic’s (night vision, red dots etc), it can also be sensitive to how firm or lose the shotgun is held when being fired (like in shooting off shoulder or with your shoulder/back to a wall) and with the use of light loads, Benelli recommends a load of 1-1/8oz at 3 dram eq or more so light target or tactical loads may or may not function reliably especially if there is added weight to the shotgun.

As for the “low recoil” part, now that is probably marketing, the Inertia driven shotguns may have less felt recoil than say a pump action but most gas operated shotguns are much softer shooting, some of that has to do with them having to be so light for the Inertia system to function properly.

October 9, 2007, 06:28 PM
i know its not a pump but it is built on the AK-47 chassis. Go for the siaga 12 with some custom mods ;)

I can't get the picture to post on this computer but here is a picture list on the siaga forum. Some very nice shotguns on there.


October 9, 2007, 06:37 PM
Oh how i want a saiga 12! I sold my 7.62 saiga a year ago and miss that as well..

October 9, 2007, 06:43 PM
I would go for the Saiga also. 8- or 10-round magazine, of course.

Barring that, the Mossberg with the bayonet, probably.

Smitty in CT
October 9, 2007, 06:49 PM
How about the Mossberg 835 I don't know why they put a hole saw on the end of the barrel.



That is the Mossberg 930 "Tactical", the thing on the end of the barrel is used for door breaching...I don't know how many people out there are using their shotguns for door breaching....but I guess it LOOKS tacticool....

October 11, 2007, 07:07 AM
870 for me.

October 11, 2007, 08:26 AM
HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 for me :cool:

October 11, 2007, 07:57 PM
Another Vote for the Mossberg 590 9 shot - preferably in marinecoat finish.

1) it holds 9 shots

2) since it's a pump, it's less likely to malfuction than an autoloader

3) it's simple

4) the Mossberg passed the Mil-Spec 3443 standards

5) it's cost effective

October 11, 2007, 08:25 PM
"Which Would You Choose And Why?"

The Remington 870. It's the benchmark.

October 11, 2007, 09:26 PM
FN Police tactical shotgun plus slugs or OO gets it done for me.

Good shooting

October 11, 2007, 10:38 PM
My Mossberg 590A1 with 18.5" barrel and bead sight hasn't let me down yet.

October 12, 2007, 07:59 AM
I own 2 Mossberg 500's and until recently owned a Remington 870.

They are both fine weapons and you can't go wrong with either one.


October 12, 2007, 09:02 AM
I have shot all 3 of them at one time or another. I'd just go with the Mossy 500. Tons of aftermarket goodies and what not.

I just think that a Mossy 500 fits me better than either of the other two.
They are all quality shotties and will out last the vast majority of us.

October 12, 2007, 07:09 PM
At work, a Remington 870 5+1 with 14" barrell. It feels like a boat anchor though.

Home, where I have a choice, a Mossy 500. It's lighter and has better controls.

Any of the above will do absolutely fine around the house. Just pick whatever YOU like or whatever fits the wallet the best.

October 12, 2007, 10:24 PM
i would go with the remington. i have hunted with the wingmaster for the last 20 years. never had a problem with. never jammed, never froze up. took 1 deer with it. a few ducks. several cases of clays . this past january i bought an express magum model. afterwards i found out i cant put a mag extension on it. if its made after 1993. you have to get it with the extension on it. from what i was told law enforcement only can buy it like that. otherwise you can only load 4+1 in it. my wingmaster and wingmaster magnum will accept the mag extensions fine and dandy. the only thing i dont like on the wingmaster is the shiny bolt. all else is blued except the bolt. i dont know why. but either of the remington 870 models will be fine. if all you are using it for is a home defense model i would go with the express magnum model. 3" mag. buckshot or even #2 fine lead shot should let the bad guys know you are not playing around.

October 13, 2007, 02:47 PM
Any of the 3 you have listed are good choices................hpg

Daniel BOON
October 16, 2007, 08:06 PM
I have a 870WM magnum. mine works fast or slow, up or down. short stroke it and there could be problems during a social intervention with bad guys, or a fast moving duck.
one day i woke up and thought i needed a Mossberg 590. i went to see a friend who had a basic 590, marine coated. altho it took 9 rnds, to my 870 7 rnds; it seemed to be sluggish, and my friend said it was just dirty and filled with desert sand. that could be. when all was said and done, I'll stick to my 870; at least until I can find a rem 1100 tactical.:)

October 16, 2007, 08:29 PM
I have a Winchester 1300 Defender that has served me for over 13 yrs and I picked up an M1014 Benelli last friday! I shot the benelli yesterday and was Very impressed! It will cycle Dove and quail as well as any 3" mag slug or buck round and I even tried a few Aguila Minishells and it cycled them too! I had seen the M-4 but If I was going to spend this kind of $$ I had to have the Real Deal!

November 25, 2007, 02:52 PM
Does he 590 meet military specifications or is it just the 590A1? the sticker that came on the mossy said i was but i wasnt sure.

Dave McC
November 25, 2007, 10:27 PM
I use 870s, but any of these will do.

Good "Serious" shotguns are abundant. Good shotgunners are not.

November 25, 2007, 10:44 PM
Mossberg 590.

I have the mossberg 500 persuader, and I love it and after 2 years of competetive skeet shooting, i am very comfortable with it. I will not replace it. Having said that, the 590 (more so the A1 model) is really the new benchmark for tactical shotguns. 9 round capacity in a short package and from a solid manufacturer.

Remington 870 are also fantastic. Fit is THE MAIN attribute of a shotgun that allows you to use it well. Pick based on that, and you will be happy. Buy from a reputable manufacturer like mossberg or remington and you're almost certain to have literally flawless reliability.

Mossbergs are cheaper, remingtons feel nicer. In my mind both are equal in terms of reliability, and I have experience with both.

November 26, 2007, 01:22 AM
Mossberg 500A 12ga., 18 -1/2" bbl., pump-action with a Knoxx BreachersGrip. Fun shooting at the range and good for HD close-quarters movement. Only about 7-1/2 lbs.

November 26, 2007, 08:55 PM
Choose a model where you can easily get/use extra barrels; a shorter barrel with bead/rifle sights and a longer barrel for hunting/trap/skeet.

December 1, 2007, 11:59 AM
I like my Franchi LAW-12. My buddy has a SPAS 12. Both are folding stock. Had I the opportunity, I'd go with the SPAS because it will work as pump or semi-auto. Hard to find or afford these days. For home I don't need a 3" shell. For the collection a "trench broom" would be nice but $$$. Two of my other buddies have 500's and really like them. Short stocks and extended tubes with tritium front bead.

December 6, 2007, 07:43 PM
I agree with BlondieStomp!! The Wilson scattergun is an awsome shotgun. I sent mine to Vang Comp and I can make quality head shots at 25 yards. Very tight!!

December 8, 2007, 01:08 PM
Don't much care for pumpguns anymore...


fett tracking
December 8, 2007, 03:07 PM
BOBASH. Thats ****ing rad.

HARDHIT, cash out for a benelli M4. You wont be dissapointed. Its worth every penny.

December 8, 2007, 08:02 PM
Wilson Combat ;)

December 9, 2007, 06:16 AM
Hey Bobash got aquestion for you on the picture is the weapon shown mag or belt fed? I kind of get the jist of the ammo on the back ground on PKC links was just wondering:D and if so then is the gun firing 7.62x39 or 7.62x54? or is it just for the pic. Not to be technical or anything

December 9, 2007, 10:10 AM
That, ladies and gents...is the saiga 12 you have heard so many of us preach on....tromix conversion?

Boris Bush
December 9, 2007, 01:52 PM

That is 8x57mm linked. The 7.92 on the wood case says so........

December 10, 2007, 12:24 AM
no offense I know what the box says the links are PKC and PKC's shoots 7.62x54 the reason I asked was just curious where he got the links from, beings that as far as I know, and I could wrong because I've been wrong before, the PKC is the only machine gun that uses them links in Iraq, I work with PKC's every day that is why I was asking. Now they have other links that look the same but are larger and they are used for the 12mm or our equivelant of the .50 cal

The Man
December 10, 2007, 02:16 AM
870 and 500.Both:D

December 22, 2007, 12:12 AM
One of the Mossies due to one thing and one thing alone:

The location of the slide release button

December 22, 2007, 10:01 AM
Ford or Chevy. Remmie 870 or Mossie 500/590. Pick the one that feels most natural and instinctive to use. Both are fine scatterguns.

I've handled both, and decided on a 590 for me. If Santa doesn't leave one under the tree, I'll be ordering one from Bud's on the 26th:p. The 590 just has a more natural fit and the control layout (tang safety and slide release) works a lot better for me. That is with a standard stock, by the way. The 8+1 capacity is a nice bonus, but didn't figure into my decision.

Now, if I were getting a pistol grip shottie, I would prefer the 870, as the Mossie's tang safety is just too far out of reach - crossbolts definitely make more since in a PGO layout.

December 22, 2007, 10:40 PM
Hands down the mossy. I have the 590-a1. The stock ghost rings are great. The loading and unloading procedure is better on the mossy because the lifter stays up. The safety is in a better spot. The slide release is in the right spot, its in a unusual spot on the 870. The 590-a1 model gives you a heavier barrel, an aluminum receiver and trigger gaurd which is an advantage in my opinion. I shot nothing but 870's until I ordered the 590-a1 sight unseen. I was nothing but impressed by this thing. I honestly have not handled or shot any other mossy's but my 590-a1. I can only say that the 590-a1 is an awsome defense shotgun with good techincal advantages over any stock 870 I've seen.

December 23, 2007, 03:43 AM
thank you for drawing my attention to that. I take it back, get a Mossy for two reasons and two reasons alone:

1) location of slide release button
2) shell lifter in up position makes loading easier. (why does the 870's stay down???)

December 23, 2007, 05:22 AM






December 23, 2007, 05:41 AM
Mossberg 500.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8303/defender2kh9.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=defender2kh9.jpg)
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/649/defender1pn2.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=defender1pn2.jpg)

December 23, 2007, 05:18 PM
Go with an 870

December 24, 2007, 08:14 AM
If you want to empty your bank account and sell your wife as a sex slave then buy the Benelli otherwise get the Mossberg 590A1 pump or 930SPX semi-auto ...

Mossberg will hold there own with Rem or Benelli -

I just bought a .20 gauge Mossberg pump 500 persuader style and changed out the stock to a pistol handle fold up that holds five extra rounds, a pistol handle pump fore end handle, and a heat shield with ghost sights attached - whole setup cost me less than $325 -

It's about as tactical as tactical can get - :D

December 24, 2007, 11:19 AM
You mean it looks about as tactical as tactical can look. How many rounds have you put through it? How many magnum, serious loads? I've watched mossbergs in the field jam and have a hard time clearing. He says it always does that when he shoots heavy game rounds out of it. Sure he only lost geese and duck because of it, but it sure makes me question the use of one as a home defense gun unless there is something drastically different about their HD gun in comparison to their field version. When the life of my family is in question, a few more dollars is not a consideration. The cheapest HD gun I can find is not the one I'm looking for. Of those offered in the original post, I would get the 870 without question.

The mossbergs are pretty though and you can't argue against their pricetag.

December 24, 2007, 02:07 PM
What is with you are you insinuating that I don't give a hoot about my family - Sure sounds that way by your stupid post...

Arrogant "A's" translation cause this is what he really means- AKA Billindenver-

"Well if you own anything else but a benelli or a Rem then you don't care about your families well being as your cheap and your shotgun is cheap and that makes you a non-Man ..."

December 24, 2007, 06:07 PM
That is not what I meant, nor did I take this discussion personally or get all emotional as you apparently are. I will not get into that on an internet site, but if you would like to bring your insults to me personally I will be happy to oblige you.

Buy whatever you like, but don't get all weepy eyed and cry foul if someone disagrees with your choice. If you can't take an internet site and the opinions therein with a grain of salt, perhaps you are not mature enough to own a firearm.


December 24, 2007, 06:23 PM
perhaps you are not mature enough to own a firearm

Oh, Oh, I guess I better turn in all my firearms...

December 25, 2007, 02:50 AM
I don't no. My Mossberg is pretty heavy duty in my eyes. So in fact that Mossberg makes a breacher barrel for the Remington. Not that capacity is a issue but my 500 holds 8+1. I would put it up against a 870 any day as it is definitely built tuff. I only have 50 or so rounds through it but so far so good....

December 25, 2007, 03:18 AM
I also have a mossberg 500(jic to fit in my backpack) to which I have added the knoxx comp stock and side saddle. I'm going to the range over the holidays to see how it performs. At least it LOOKS mean.:rolleyes:

December 25, 2007, 08:23 AM
The problem as I see it is a lot of people buy the Yuppie shotgun -

(I use the word Yuppie simply because I can't think of anything that better describes people that have to get the best at all costs, and keep up with the Jones)

- Then after buying the Rem 870 or 1100 or the benelli (astro priced) M4 they realize that they could have gotten a more functionally correct shotgun for less than half the price, that will fire anything you put into it downrange. I mean isn't that what we want a shotgun for is to fire caps.

Somehow, I think these Yuppies have no use for firing their shotguns at all. I'll venture to say that more than a few of them buy and never fire at all. I believe they buy these weapons to simply say they have them, to look at them hanging on the wall, to polish them, to massage them!!!

So they can get on forums like this and tell everyone that they have one and that their's is better than yours - They say to themselves over and over mine has to be better, right? It cost three times as much so it has to be better, right??? Right??? Right???

WRONG !!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

December 25, 2007, 09:31 AM
Six, as I said before you are entirely too emotional about this issue. It is a discussion on the merits of different shotguns. There is nothing yuppy about an 870. It's not significantly more expensive than your mossberg.

As I said before, in what I thought was a polite way despite your emotional outburst...I have seen the mossbergs jam in the field a few times now in the last few months and it makes me question them as an HD weapon UNLESS there is something different about the HD gun. I can clear a jam as well as the next guy, but my wife can not. I left the possibility that the HD gun has something different about it so that someone like you could tell me if there is or not. Could very well be. It wasn't meant as an attack on your manhood and it would be nice if you would gather up your self esteem and get over it. We are discussing shotguns here, that is all.

The way this works is I say I have seen them jam and it gives me pause, then you say you have put XXX number of HD rounds through yours and have never jammed. Then we discuss the differences between heavy game loads and HD loads and whether or not the 870 jams too. That gives a reader who comes along later and finds this thread a few different opinions to consider. It's a much better way of sharing information than the my toys are better than your toys method you are using. If you can keep your emotions in check, you might find there is information in the world that you do not have. As shocking as it may be, there are people out there that use your shotgun every single week...wouldn't you like to know what trends they see or is it better to just throw around insults and proclaim your omnipotence?

December 25, 2007, 09:55 AM
Sir, why are you answering as if my post was directed at you? It was not... I was merely making a statement about what i feel people do- Not you - (unless the definition fits you?) and of course I don't know you - so I have no way of knowing that, and I agree with you the 870 is close to a Mossberg price wise.

I have no grudge match going here - Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday - to you and yours ...

Smitty in CT
December 25, 2007, 09:19 PM
Mossberg 500.


Merry Christmas!!, you're "Homeland Defender" might become a collector's item some day, the new ones don't have the "FEAR NO EVIL" on them...

I think it had to to with someone else already had the rights to it.

I like the way it looks!

December 25, 2007, 10:25 PM
Merry Christmas!!, you're "Homeland Defender" might become a collector's item some day, the new ones don't have the "FEAR NO EVIL" on them...

I think it had to to with someone else already had the rights to it.

I like the way it looks!

Thanks Smitty!!!:)
Merry Christmas to you too!!!!

I was wondering why I have not seen them in a while. The one I got was sitting in the Gun Store for months. A friend got one a long time ago and this one just sat there. They have the 18.5 5+1 cruiser's everywhere with the breacher barrel but this 22" 8+1 that I got I have not seen any other ones than the ones me and my buddy have.....