PDA

View Full Version : S&W MP9c or Taurus PT111


Twisted99
September 11, 2007, 06:10 PM
Been reading here about 6 months, never owned a firearm. After reading and reading I concluded S&W MP9c, then more reading and I'm thinking PT-111. So I go to a local dealer today (he has both on his website) and he really cannot recommend the Taurus, he will order it, but really thinks the S&W is MUCH better. The big ? which one, and why? I do not care about the cost between these two (about $200) but do not want to spend more than the S&W.

IM_Lugger
September 11, 2007, 07:51 PM
no experiance with PT111 but I like Taurus guns in general...

I own M&P9 full size and it's a great gun

fwiw....

Qwiks draw
September 12, 2007, 12:32 AM
As much as I would like to recommend one or the other right off, I am not though I do have a Taurus PT111 Mil/pro.

How much experience shooting and what have you shot as far as guns go?

Small and compact guns are harder to use and get to know over their bigger brethren. What's known as specialist's guns.

A starting point for those new to shooting any gun is to get aquainted with the basics of shooting. This goes double for handguns. These take more time,experience,practice, and dedication as opposed to long guns. Not overwhelming by any means.

Starting with a .22lrf ,38 Special, or 9x19 full size pistol or revolver is warranted for learning and becoming proficient with handguns.

With a .22lrf pistol, one can practice and gain much needed experience.
Once that is done moving on to the centerfire guns is a much easier step.

If one already has the basics down then move on to the full size pistols.
9mm. has light recoil, quick recovery shot to shot, presents a decent level of protection, and is cheaper to shoot over the larger calibers.

If you have training on a revolver then a full size S&W or Taurus 24/7 is called for. These have what are essentially DAO triggers or related to them. These are lighter than revolver double action triggers, but are a bit harder to learn to hit with consistently. Every brand,make,and model, has a different type of DAO trigger.Different techniques and trigger pull for each type.

Take that down a step to the compact models and there has to be finer hand co-ordination, consistent trigger pull all the way through, and even hand pressure.

Taking a basic handgun course would get things off to a good start.

Gunshops,ranges,shooting clubs, or the NRA have accredited instructors who can do the job. Whether one on one, or a class full of people ,these would give you the basics and knowledge to become proficient.

If you start out with a DA/SA triggered gun there are things to learn here as well.
Double action pulls on semi-autos are hard,approximately 10-14 pounds of pressure for the first shot. Then with the single action pull of approx. 5-8 pounds of trigger pull,each shot has the lighter pull until shooting is over and the pistol is safely decocked. This brings it back to the hard double action pull again.

Smith and Wesson makes 3.5 in barreled 9mm.908 pistols in the DA/SA mode.Nothing larger in 9mm. This is a slim single stack 8 round magazine pistol. Cartridge count is meaningless if you don't hit your target with the first few rounds of a gunfight under extreme duress. And it will be just that.
8 rounds can do it. Or carry extra ammo ( in magazines) on the belt as one is supposed to do. One or two extra mags will get one through most defense scenarios.

Taurus makes the PT92, or it's cousin, the PT911 that hold 15 or more cartridges in a magazine. Need medium to large hands to hold these. Small hands means it's tougher to get a good grip on any double stack large capacity semi-auto.

If you choose the double action only trigger type then a full sized S&W SIGMA or M&P would be in order. Then go to the comapct or subcompact once you master the larger pistol.

Or go with a full size Taurus 24/7 either in OSS guise or Millennium Pro guise with at least a 4 inch or greater barrel.Then get the 24/7 shorty or PT111 MIl/pro.

Nothing says you can't start with the small guns, but the road can be harder than it needs to be by doing so. Up to you.

Since we as members cannot tell which gun will fit you and your needs, we can only advise somewhat.

Both are brands are excellent pistols and have excellent track records despite the hype or negativity written about both companies.

I will admit to a Taurus bias because of longevity,dureability,price and very good service given by the 4 Taurus revolvers and 2 semi-autos I own.

Never owned a S&W anything, but all the countles people who I know who own S&W guns, most if not all, were happy and served well by what they bought.

There is a S&W M&P board at http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php

There is also www.taurusarmed.net which is the Taurus source along with Taurus Talk at MSN.

Check them all out. Join and ask questions. Check out old threads and new ones at these forums. Staff and members are more than willing to impart info and experience with the real deal products you are interested in.

Who knows? You might go with a CZ75, a SIG anything (239?), or a Ruger P series pistol.

Do have the Rugers,also. Have that bias as well.

I will not dump on another's brand as that is unprofessional,rude, and disrespectful. No need to anyway. If a gun maker puts out a crappy product, they will cease to exist. Law of averages,capitalism, free market, and common sense. We vote with our wallets after all.

So there is a lot to consider,learn,and get aquainted with.

Good luck and keep us posted.

MPanova
September 12, 2007, 05:25 AM
Im sure he is going to tell you to get the Smith because he will make more money off of it :rolleyes: Dont listen to which one "HE" wants to sell you and pick the one that fits you best. I would recommend the PT111 because my wife has put about 8000 flawless rounds through hers and it just keeps going and goin and you get the idea. If the PT111 fits you better then get it and take the 200 bucks you saved and buy 1000 rounds of ammo and a holster and go have some fun at the range.

Twisted99
September 12, 2007, 05:46 AM
Thanks for the replies. Qwiks draw, I have already asked about the courses they have, and he also told me about a nearby range that rents guns, so that will probably be my next step. His reason for not recommending the Taurus is reliability, specifically trigger issues. In my first post I should have asked how those two compare in quality / reliability.

MPanova
September 12, 2007, 06:24 AM
Im not sure what problems the Taurus was had with the trigger. I have not heard anything atleast. IMO the trigger feel and pull is better ont he Taurus, also with the PT111 you get the only striker fired gun made that has a 2nd strike capability. You can read more about that on taurususa.com

As far as reliability and quality I would say they are equal.


Where are you from? Ill let you shoot my wifes PT111 with as many rounds as you want to buy. Hell Ill even clean it every 400 rounds for you if you want to shoot that much.

Twisted99
September 12, 2007, 06:54 AM
Where are you from? Ill let you shoot my wifes PT111 with as many rounds as you want to buy. Hell Ill even clean it every 400 rounds for you if you want to shoot that much.
__________________

I'm in Florida, but the wifes family is in Houston, HMMMM.:)

Jkwas
September 12, 2007, 09:26 AM
I have a PT111, and like it a lot. But if I had a do-over, I would go with the G26 or the M&P compact only because of size. The grips are shorter and they conceal better. The M&P also comes with adjustable grip panels, and two magazines, one short for carry, and one with an extension for the range.
I paid half of what you would you pay for the glock and smith, but if money isn't the issue, than that's my input.

Cloudpeak
September 12, 2007, 12:58 PM
And, if the handgun has to go back to the factory for warranty work, S&W picks up freight cost both ways. Shipping handguns is very expensive and I've read too many reports of people having to send Taurus handguns back to the factory a couple of times. Smith also seems to have a much faster turn around time than Taurus from what I've read on the various gun forums.

I did really like how the PT145 fit my hand and the trigger but got discouraged by all the reports of problems. But, the folks that have had no trouble with the Taurus handguns really seem to like them. They do seem like a good value as long as you don't get stuck with a $50-60 shipping charge.

Cloudpeak

Qwiks draw
September 12, 2007, 01:42 PM
Never had any problems with the PT111 trigger. No parts breakage or failure of any part of the trigger group. Mine is know over 6 years old.

It's just that DAO triggers do take some getting used to.That can be said for any of the brands.

Twisted 99.

Funny you should bring up the where are you located thing. :)

Texans and Floridians have overrun the www.taurusarmed.net forum. Might be somebody close by. Feel like you're being watched? :rolleyes::) The eyes of Texas are upon you......... maybe.

Twisted99
September 12, 2007, 02:45 PM
So I do some more research today, don't find much recent Taurus bashing, and only 1 post about a trigger breaking. Also found this post:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248632&highlight=pt111

Now I gotta look at the 24/7.

kgpcr
September 13, 2007, 09:10 PM
Its like comparing apples to oranges. The M&P is the best pistol out there for under 850.00. I have owned many brands and models and my CCW is now my M&P. Hands down a great gun and far better than the Taurus. I own a few Taurus revolvers. One is a 617SS .357mag 7 shot with a 2" barrel and i like it for pocket carry. The Smith is hands down a better pistol!!

MPanova
September 13, 2007, 10:04 PM
Just as kgpcr feels the M&P is the best for under 850, I feel the Taurus 24/7Pro is the best for any price, so like I said before pick the one that fits you best and enjoy ;)

Lt. G
September 13, 2007, 10:16 PM
Like them both, rent them, shoot them ,then decide.

Impreza
September 13, 2007, 10:57 PM
I like both and own the M&P9c...I would also consider Glock 26.

Qwiks draw
September 13, 2007, 11:42 PM
MPanova, Lt.G, and Impreza got that correctly.:) So did a few others.:)

ActivShootr
September 14, 2007, 03:12 AM
If you live near a range that rents guns, go there and shoot every one within your price range. After that, base your decision on which one you shoot the best AND which one is most comfortable for you to shoot.

TN-77
September 15, 2007, 11:26 PM
I own a PT111 and an M&P 9 full size. I really like both guns. No problem out of either gun (still under 1000 rounds). I do like the trigger pull on the M&P better but millenium's trigger is not bad. I daily carry the PT111 and do like the fact of the manual safety. All the shops in my area frowned at the Taurus, but I read a fair share about it and am very happy with my choice. I would buy the PT111 again .. well I might get the .45 version.
I also know Smith is excellent with their warranty. My father-in-law had a small issue with his Sigma and they coordinated and paid shipping both ways, and it only took 2 or 3 weeks round trip. Also, Smith is made in the USA.
Sorry I'm not much help. Both are good quality guns.

SKM&P9
September 15, 2007, 11:34 PM
Like TN-77, I too own both the M & P fullsize, and the PT111. It seems no matter what the brand, someone will bash them no matter what. Find what fits your hand first and foremost, because it could be the best gun made, but if it doesn't feel right to you, you'll probably end up not shooting it anyway, so why waste the money just to have it sit? I also have over 1,500 rds. thru my PT111, and not a problem.

Qwiks draw
September 16, 2007, 12:04 AM
The last two posts have been a big help.Nice to hear from real experience with both makes and models.:D

Twisted99
November 4, 2007, 04:01 PM
So, I bought the S&W, and it sat in the case until today. The wife and I took a CW class, then went to the range with the instructor. We each put 50 rounds through it without any issues. I am very happy with my choice.

Mags
November 4, 2007, 08:37 PM
Glad you like it. I have the M&P .40c and love it. Its my carry gun and has been great at the range for about 500 rounds with only a few minor hick ups, mostly due to cheap ammo.

Qwiks draw
November 4, 2007, 11:02 PM
Glad to hear that you are satisfied with your choice. One size never fits all and neither to opinions,facts,or people in general.:):rolleyes::D

Enjoy you new purchase. May it serve you well.

Pinky Carruthers
November 4, 2007, 11:20 PM
also with the PT111 you get the only striker fired gun made that has a 2nd strike capability.
Nope. Walther P99 with the AS trigger (basically a DA/SA with a third SA stage) has been around since 1996 or so.

Mark Milton
November 6, 2007, 10:21 AM
I own a Millineim and I like it. It has a thumb safety for one thing. Trigger pull is smoother than my Glock, which is irritating when you consider the Taurus is a DAO and the Glock is on half cock.....

>>>Im sure he is going to tell you to get the Smith because he will make more money off of it<<<

I think that is the real reason.
Remember, if he operates on say a 15 percent mark up over wholesale, that means the more expensive gun, the bigger the profit margin for him.