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View Full Version : Raise your hand if you dont like HK


ARmasterzach
September 10, 2007, 09:25 PM
Does anyone dislike Hk? Has anyone ever had a problem with them?

MTMilitiaman
September 10, 2007, 09:29 PM
[eagerly raises hand and waves vigorously]

OOO, OOO, me! Can't stand em. Over hyped, over priced :barf:

Silentarmy
September 10, 2007, 09:47 PM
MT Militiaman

Ever owned one? My USP .45 almost took the Glock out of me!! and I own seven Glocks! Definitely over priced, but then I am not usually in the habit of paying New retail for my guns. After really good luck with a Gemtech OUtback on my P22 and one of my 10-22 rifles, I am going to put the Yankee Hill Cobra on the HK!! No problems with my USP and I have read that there is some sort of safety feature that vents gasses in the event of KB. I am a little leery after my TWO incedents with by Glock 27 and Beretta 96!

MTMilitiaman
September 10, 2007, 09:56 PM
Yep. Saved for years to get a USP Tactical 45 for my 21st birthday and the thing has given me nothing but trouble. HK refuses to acknowledge my existence, so the thing ended up being a $1000 paperweight.

Even if it worked as advertised, it is still just another polymer framed pistol--and it happens to have a mediocre trigger (match? Hardy...) and a ridiculous bore axis that gives it more muzzle flip than any .45 I've ever shot.

My dad has made it his personal project to get it fixed and I told him he could have it if he did. All I'd do is end up selling it to find a 1911 or another Glock.

I was an HK fan until I actually owned one. Then I bought a Glock.

Silentarmy
September 10, 2007, 10:05 PM
I am sorry you got a Lemon man! I have owned every model of glock now with the exception of the .357 Sig models and the 29 and I do feel that they are superior but one must admit, There is nothing that Screams Killing Machine like ANY HK firearm! I looked at them for yrs before I found mine ($560 used) I felt a little guilty buying it for that not 30 mins after handling a new one at another store for twic the price!

tomh1426
September 10, 2007, 10:43 PM
I dont not like them, I know their good guns they just dont work for me.
I bought a brand new usp .45, it was way more accurate than me and functioned flawless.
I do think they are kinda over priced but thats not my beef.
It was uncomfortable and I couldnt shoot it to save my life.
I was so determined to love it and shoot it well, but it never happened.
Im still fighting it but deep down I think I just dont like plastic guns, and I went through alot of em.

IanS
September 10, 2007, 10:52 PM
I used to own a USP/C and have shot several full sized USP's through the years. They're good pistols but as a DA/SA pistol I prefer the trigger and handling characteristics of SIG Sauer. HK's LEM vs SIG's DAK again, SIG Sauer. But, the USP Var. 1 the most common USP model can be used cocked and locked which is great for a 1911 shooter like me. SIG has also come out with SAO models (P220 .45 versions) but they are a bit harder to find. No P226 or P229 SAO as of yet. SIG Sauer's SAO trigger system are frankly unproven but I'm eagerly waiting a few years to see how they pan out. Otherwise the USP's are solid albeit unremarkable pistols. I'd gladly accept one, but not if I had a choice. Personally I think the P2000 models are a bit more refined version of the blocky USP's, but alas no SAO cocked and locked versions. They're also set to release the HK45 which is also a slimmer further "refined" version of the USP. IMO, with the release of the P2000, HK45, and the newest P30 models I feel that HK too is admitting they weren't quite happy with the USP's either.

The P7's on the other hand are wonder machines that reflect the type of teutonic overengineering one expects from the company that came up with the MP5 submachine guns. HK has stopped producing these relatively pricey pistols due to slow sales and we are all poorer for it.

IM_Lugger
September 10, 2007, 11:04 PM
Can't stand em. Over hyped, over priced +1 :)

MPanova
September 10, 2007, 11:17 PM
+2

Bill DeShivs
September 11, 2007, 03:31 AM
They may be great guns, but they have the ergonomics and class of a turnip.

Silvanus
September 11, 2007, 06:37 AM
I hate the fact that H&K doesn't offer their SMGs and the G36 in semi-auto versions for the civilian market. Apart from that, the pistols are very good weapons though. And not particularly expensive at all where I live.

SIGs on the other hand...bloody hell! They cost a fortune:eek:

PSP
September 11, 2007, 07:23 AM
Real Men love H&K.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/SIGERMP9/Military%20FireArms/hk_mp7_rechts1.jpg
:D

ARmasterzach
September 11, 2007, 07:53 AM
"I hate the fact that H&K doesn't offer their SMGs and the G36 in semi-auto versions for the civilian market"

They sell a version of the sl8 called the sl8 m16 that looks almost like a g36 and will accept m16 mags.

pesta2
September 11, 2007, 08:50 AM
My cousin bought a used H&K UPS at Cabala’s in .40 Cal. I got to handle it not fire it. What surprised me is the size of it, it is huge for .40 Cal. Seemed to me a scaled down Desert Eagle. The slide is gigantic. It was a little big for my taste.

Hornett
September 11, 2007, 09:14 AM
I bought a H&K USPc .40 because it had EVERYThing I wanted. Cocked and locked safety, decocker, compact polymer frame, good reputation.
However.........
Upon using it I found out that the trigger was repulsive (6 lb pull, kind of like dragging a brick through sand, you could actually feel it crunching across the sear, and it never broke in the same place) magazines are expensive and the hi cap mags are hard to find, and parts are nonexistent.
For example, the mags come with two baseplate styles, flat and extended with a pinky rest. My gun came with one of each. I wanted to carry the gun so I thought I could get anothe flate baseplate and be good to go. NNNoooOOOooo, The flat baseplates are not offered to the public, you have to be lucky enough to find someone who has one and is willing to sell it.
The muzzle flip was just unreal.
I could go on, but I do limit my vitriol to the compact. It is my understanding that the full size versions are much better. I'll never know though. I've moved on to 1911's.:D

Syntax360
September 11, 2007, 09:27 AM
A GIANT +1 to everything Hornett said. A dead-on copy of my experience.

ragwd
September 11, 2007, 09:28 AM
To be fair , now you should open a "who doesn't like (enter name here) for all the other fine guns. We all have our likes and dislikes and if someone sells one million pistols of course someone is going to get a lemon. For every horror story there are thousands of satisfied users. This is the same of all makers. There was a thread not long ago bashing hp's and they had their loyal fans and their haters. "jmho" Oh, by the way, did you hear that sig is having a ton of qc problems with their 229?:D:D:D

rellascout
September 11, 2007, 09:36 AM
I owned an HK USP 9mm full sized.

I talked myself into it. It never fit my hand. I shot less than 200 rounds and then traded it and never looked back. They are fine guns but just not for me.

18DAI
September 11, 2007, 10:37 AM
"over priced, over hyped" You mean like Kimbers? ;)

Silvanus
September 11, 2007, 10:50 AM
They sell a version of the sl8 called the sl8 m16 that looks almost like a g36 and will accept m16 mags.

Thank you, I didn't know that. But does H&K sell those things or are they aftermarket conversions. If it's the latter, I've seen those before (from a German gunsmith IIRC) and it's VERY expensive.

easyG
September 11, 2007, 11:01 AM
I've never owned one but I have shot the USP in .40S&W....

It felt bulky and awkward, and it shot even worse.
I can't believe the prices they sell for.

No thanks!

AK103K
September 11, 2007, 11:05 AM
I bought all my HK's back before they were expensive. $450 for a P7M13, $450 for a 94, with an additional $350 for the MP5 conversion, $5-600 for 91's. This was also back before HK's were on import ban lists and started doing the "HK Dealer" thing and you could call in and deal direct with them.

My experience with HK's as a weapon have all been VERY positive. All were 100% reliable, and very accurate. I have yet to come across any 9mm pistol, or any pistol for that matter, that was as accurate out of the box with no modifications or fooling with than the P7. Even the MP5 on full auto fired individual, separate "groups", when fired in bursts. It was so easy to shoot, my kids had no troubles shooting it, full auto, with total trigger control, when they were 5 years old. My stock 91's were as accurate as all but my NM M1A's, and a lot more versatile.

HK did shoot themselves in the foot by basically, out of the blue, ignoring the general public in favor of pursuing the law enforcement and military communities. One day they were friendly and fill your order, the next they would hang up on you. The import bans also did in, and continue to keep out guns we should have access to. On the other hand, I do think its a good thing they have chosen not to build things here though.

HappyGunner
September 11, 2007, 01:18 PM
I have two H&Ks both are USP Compacts a .40sw&.45acp both have never failed and I trust them both.:)

RevolverLover
September 11, 2007, 01:33 PM
to be fair , now you should open a "who doesn't like (enter name here) for all the other fine guns. We all have our likes and dislikes and if someone sells one million pistols of course someone is going to get a lemon. For every horror story there are thousands of satisfied users. This is the same of all makers.

I strongly agree with that.

tomh1426
September 11, 2007, 01:58 PM
Oops, sorry

RockyMtnTactical
September 11, 2007, 02:07 PM
I believe they are overpriced and overhyped, but they are nice guns. I like the USP compacts.

However, I'll take a Glock over an HK anyday of the week.

JAXX
September 11, 2007, 02:12 PM
Everyone elses opinion really doesn't matter. What matters (to you) is your opinion. If I would have listened to what most people say, I wouldn't even own a gun in the first place.

Creature
September 11, 2007, 02:23 PM
As far as the USP is concerned, the polymer used in its construction seemed flimsier than usual to me when compared to the polymer used my Glock.

And I never cared for the trigger. It was crisp but best I describe is that had a "hollow" sensation to it.

I also did not like the very high bore axis...

But it was plenty accurate enough and I never had a FTF or any other malfunction. All told, I put just over 1,000 rounds down range with it before I sold it.

I dont miss that USP and my Glock is a safe queen....I have a Sig now.

EMB135Driver
September 11, 2007, 05:13 PM
I have 2 USPc .40s and after 4000 + rounds I have yet to experience any malfunction. A quality gun I trust implicity.

Black Adder LXX
September 11, 2007, 05:18 PM
I do not like them in my house
I do not like them with a mouse
I will not shoot them here or there
I will not shoot them anywhere
I do not like the H&K gun
I do not like them, they're no fun

HorseSoldier
September 11, 2007, 05:48 PM
I've owned two along the way, a USP9F and a USP45C, and they're okay. Reliable, and with some features I really like, and some others that don't work that well for me (grip profile being one of them, but most polymers have that issue for my hand).

Don't have either USP anymore. I don't think I'd buy another HK pistol except for a P7M8, which I am a big fan of, but not (yet) a $1400 kind of fan.

varoadking
September 11, 2007, 06:43 PM
Real Men love H&K

These are among the finest handguns ever made, IMHO...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/DSC03065.jpg

tomh1426
September 11, 2007, 06:45 PM
Maybe but if I cant shootem good their usless
Althow I never shot one of those

HappyGunner
September 11, 2007, 06:48 PM
Is that a answer looking for a question ?:rolleyes:

tomh1426
September 11, 2007, 07:04 PM
I dunno, I started saying one thing and thinking somthing else and I alredy hit reply so I just let it go
2nd time for me in this thread alone :o
Guess it was more of a reply to varoadking's comment

PPGMD
September 11, 2007, 07:50 PM
Oh ghee a hate thread.

http://www.lazyeights.net/Avion/USP_CZ_Blackside_Sml.jpg

I love my USP Tactical, it's a tack driver.

IM_Lugger
September 11, 2007, 07:59 PM
The main reason why I dislike HKs USP is because of the ergonomics; if I didn't know any better I'd think the grip was designed for an ape :eek:

PPGMD what kind of grip is on that SP-01? looks nice for sure...

Greg Bell
September 11, 2007, 08:02 PM
Yawn...:rolleyes:

PPGMD
September 11, 2007, 08:07 PM
PPGMD what kind of grip is on that SP-01? looks nice for sure...

Their the slim aluminum grip offered by the CZ UB factory, you can get them from CZ USA or Ghostholster, though they are out of stock at the moment.

orionengnr
September 11, 2007, 08:33 PM
I have had the pleasure of owning six of them.

The HK-91 that I shot 20 years ago was pretty cool, too...wish I had bought one when they were "only" $900. ;)

As far as the USP and it's variants, they hold no appeal for me. I have shot them, and yeah...so what? Just another PolyPistol (TM). Nothing special.

Jason_G
September 11, 2007, 08:54 PM
Yawn...:rolleyes:

Yep.
Do we really need another I hate _____ thread? If we're going to do this, why don't we just make a "hate thread" for every single major manufacturer out there and make them all stickies? If anyone hates something, they can post about it there.

Jason

RsqVet
September 12, 2007, 12:27 AM
I Don't hate HK....BUT

I love the HK P7M8... and I hate them for jacking the price to the stratosphere and then discontinuing the gun.

I hate the sparseness of civilian longarm offering....

I hate that they will not sell the 416 here in the states

I wish that they would come up with somethign other than USP varyations or USP inspired guns, good as it is... maybe even a alternative to polymer for us...

jimmybruno
September 12, 2007, 05:09 AM
I'm not a fan, too many trigger choices for self defense use and I don't see one good for competition.

rampage841512
September 12, 2007, 08:25 AM
I've owned two. My first pistol was an HK USP .45, full-size version. I never had any problems with it all the time I owned it. I also have an HK P2000sk. It's a bit small, but definitely the better of the two. I kept it when I sold the USP (due to money problems...I plan on buying it back).

My only complaint is that I wish they shot like my Kimber, but my bullets went where I wanted them so I was satisfied. I'm thinking about picking up the P30.

Hornett
September 12, 2007, 09:19 AM
In spite of my loss of repsect for HK's USP comapcts, I would own a P7 in a minute if I found a good deal.
Those are just ingenious little machines.

Creature
September 12, 2007, 02:46 PM
In spite of my loss of repsect for HK's USP compacts, I would own a P7 in a minute if I found a good deal. Those are ingenious little machines.

+1 Agreed.

dwatts47
September 12, 2007, 04:51 PM
Love the usp full size, hate that full size with HK means FULL SIZE.

Never carry it concealed as its like trying to hide a dewalt drill in my pants...


Mags are big too, even for a double stack .45

STAGE 2
September 12, 2007, 05:49 PM
I submit that HK is the most innovative and creative firearms company today. Look at any of the other makers, CZ, colt, glock, beretta, SIG, etc, and you will find good or even great pistols with no innovation.

Between the P7, P9s, USP and the VP 70 which was the FIRST ever production pistol with a polymer frame, you have a company that isn't confined to a single platform, which has indisputably lead to several fantastic designs.

The USP itself is just as reliable as a glock, more accurate, and more user friendly. Out of my many pistols, my tactical would be among the last to go.

HappyGunner
September 12, 2007, 06:07 PM
Just show me any other firearm Mfg. who has a Video as good showing the depth of quality that H&K has.;)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ASSJuijmS-E
It's in German but you just can't miss how much they care about their products.:)

Alnamvet
September 12, 2007, 06:12 PM
I'll raise my hand....way to way over the top price wise...

tomh1426
September 12, 2007, 06:23 PM
I cant believe I watched that whole video
Some German guy buried a hi-point, big deal :D JK
I want my time back
They are great guns, I can not dispute that

ARmasterzach
September 12, 2007, 10:58 PM
I held a mark 23 socom 45 at the gun show the other day and even though its the awesomest 45 ive ever seen/held and I hope to own one someday, it was almost too big for my hand. Im 6'11'' by the way. The only problem is I cant see spending 2k on a single pistol when I could get 2 or 3 other ''nice'' guns.

Cremon
September 12, 2007, 11:15 PM
My younger brother loves HK's. He has a 9mm now and is going to get the 45 USP next. I have nothing against HKs - they just don't fit my hands well. But my bro loves em and swears by his.

Axion
September 12, 2007, 11:37 PM
The USP itself is just as reliable as a glock, more accurate, and more user friendly.

I'm not sure about that. The main complaint most people have with Glocks is ergonomics. The main reason why I ruled out the USP when I was looking at one was...ergonomics. Both the USP and Glocks feel like bricks in my hands, I'd say the USP feels like an even bigger brick.

Note: I don't even like Glocks, I'm a Sig fan.

big shot
September 13, 2007, 03:25 AM
I remember when HK used to offer a slightly better product for a slightly higher price. I was fine with that. Now, they seen to want twice the price for the exact same thing. What's up with that?

$800.00 plus dollars for a USP? Thanks, but no thanks. If I'm going to drop that kind of cash, I'd rather have a Sig instead.

The Body Bagger
September 13, 2007, 04:32 AM
Way over priced and way over hyped. With that being said, HK release the HK45 already so I can buy one you S.O.B's.

Willie D
September 13, 2007, 07:44 AM
They sell a version of the sl8 called the sl8 m16 that looks almost like a g36 and will accept m16 mags.



I'm not sure the current SL8 does accept m16 mags and if it did you would most likely be in violation of 922r.

A guy at the range had one and he said that additional mags had cost him $95! It was also so incredibly loud I couldn't believe it was .223. I was stuck at a shooting station between him and a 30.06 and the noise and blast from his side was worse. Maybe it was the lack of muzzle break. $2,100 seems way too pricey for a neutered m16 equivilant.

ARmasterzach
September 13, 2007, 07:51 AM
I couldnt find the actual gun to put a link up but they do have the aftermarket magwell on gunbroker.

HappyGunner
September 13, 2007, 09:19 AM
The new American Sigs are of the same really out dated design and are not the same handgun as the Sig Sauer Mfg. in Germany. But both do not compare with the designs of the H&Ks. Talk about overpriced Sig comes to mind quickly.;)

marikhal
September 13, 2007, 03:53 PM
$800.00 plus dollars for a USP? Thanks, but no thanks. If I'm going to drop that kind of cash, I'd rather have a Sig instead.

EH?!

Sometimes you can find USPc 9mms at CDNN for like $650; I know of another place pushing NIB 9mm USPfs with factory night sights and 3 mags for like $680.

Not too bad, imo.

dwatts47
September 13, 2007, 04:47 PM
Happygunner:

Since the Sig and the HK both use the modified browning recoil system ,with a barrel that tips up slightly upon firing and locks back in place at the end of cycle... I dont' see the "out of date pistols" comments as true.

Are we to assume that Glocks, Walthers p99s, Springfield XD's, SW M&P pistols are all out date as well using the same system?

HappyGunner
September 13, 2007, 06:42 PM
There is more to their handguns then just the type of system the action uses. Like the weight of the all steel Sigs and their type of single stack Mags.;)

If you check our Military and the FBI are getting rid of their Sigs and starting to use the H&Ks:)

IMHO the XD and Glock are a better choice then the Sig.:)

AK103K
September 13, 2007, 06:56 PM
I'm a little leary of a gun my dog can destroy in short order. :D

Bentonville
September 13, 2007, 08:23 PM
I don't allow my dog to chew on my gun. :)
I love my HKs. Had a lot of others but nothing like an HK.

PSP
September 13, 2007, 08:47 PM
If you check our Military and the FBI are getting rid of their Sigs and starting to use the H&Ks


Actually the FBI uses Glocks.

dwatts47
September 13, 2007, 08:55 PM
Happygunner:

There are only a few all steel SiG models designate as "ST" after the model name, there are also a few "gun of the month" sigs from 2005 that featured reverse two tone finishes - some of those had all stainless frames, the rest are alloy frames with stainless slides.

There are also only a few that have single stack mags. The 226,228,229,X5, SiG Pro and New P250 all have double stack mags, and though there are 20 round factory mags available for the older 226's and 228's - Sig has just released a new 226 SCT with a differently designed 20 round mag only with a finger rest to be only sligthly longer than a stock mag. There's also a new 229 SCT w/ 17 round 9mm mags and 14 round 40 mags

And with the Dept of homeland security having ordered so many .40 cal 229s that SiG now offers that gun to the public, I doubt they're just gonna stop using guns that they just got.

PPGMD
September 13, 2007, 08:56 PM
DHS bought a ton of Hk P2000SK 40's. Sig complained about the competition and Sig was given part of the contract. The Sig DAK trigger has issues with some of the common frangible SD ammos, which is probably why a couple of the agencies that once used them went to JHP ammo.

kgpcr
September 13, 2007, 09:05 PM
to me they are THE most over rated handgun out there! Most under rated is the Smith M&P. To me HK is WAY over priced.

Axion
September 13, 2007, 10:22 PM
IMHO the XD and Glock are a better choice then the Sig.

That is pure nonsense. Sure some may like Glock's or XD's better then sigs, but they are in no way better guns.

RevolverLover
September 13, 2007, 10:26 PM
Sure some may like Glock's or XD's better then sigs, but they are in no way better guns.

If they like Glocks and XD's better than Sigs, then wouldn't they be better guns for them?

It boils done to what works for you.

JohnKSa
September 14, 2007, 10:07 AM
I'll admit that I haven't had a vast amount of experience with H&K pistols, but what I've had has been uniformly good in terms of ergonomics, reliability, accuracy and durability.

My wife liked my USP so much that it's now hers. :oThe Sig DAK trigger has issues with some of the common frangible SD ammos, which is probably why a couple of the agencies that once used them went to JHP ammo.I don't understand this statement...

Which agencies were using "frangible SD ammo" vs JHP?
How does a trigger cause problems with ammunition?

BlondieStomp
September 14, 2007, 10:39 AM
There is more to their handguns then just the type of system the action uses. Like the weight of the all steel Sigs and their type of single stack Mags.

Well lets hear it then

If you check our Military and the FBI are getting rid of their Sigs and starting to use the H&Ks


Ok so someone finally needs to explain that either any given military or police agency choosing any given weapon system, or any piece of equipment in general, does not make it the best or even mean that it's above average in its field of competition. There are so many factors in government buying that aren't pertinent to the quality of the product! Especially cost!

FirstFreedom
September 14, 2007, 10:59 AM
Ever owned one? My USP .45 almost took the Glock out of me!! and I own seven Glocks! Definitely over priced, but then I am not usually in the habit of paying New retail for my guns.

Yeah, but that ain't saying much. *Everything* looks like a great value after owning overpriced Glocks. HKs ARE overpriced and overhyped IMO. They are good, even very good, and not as overpriced/overhyped as glocks, relative to the features/quality, but still up there just because of the high price.

JAXX
September 15, 2007, 01:43 AM
Ok so someone finally needs to explain that either any given military or police agency choosing any given weapon system, or any piece of equipment in general, does not make it the best or even mean that it's above average in its field of competition. There are so many factors in government buying that aren't pertinent to the quality of the product! Especially cost!

I don't think that cost has anything to do with the fact that almost every tactical team in every country from LEO to armed military personnel have some type of HK weapon in their stable. Wether it be our FBI or local SWAT teams, to some type of European counter terrorism unit, every tactical team on the face of the planet uses some type of HK firearm. To me, that says alot about their quality and dependability. Sure they are expensive, so what. Those of us that have chosen to spend the money (for the most part) seem to be more than satisfied with the purchase. If cost was the major deciding factor in supplying military or police agancies with any given weapon, then we all know that everyone would be using Glocks. But the fact that HKs are the "go to" weapons for the best of the best spells everything out to me. I see no reason to believe that HK would not subject the same quality control standards to their pistols that have made the MP5 one of the most important weapons of our time. Its' use throughout the world cannot be argued or misconstrued. It is THE weapon to use in close quarter combat.

Tempest45
September 15, 2007, 03:09 AM
HK should have stopped with the P7. It's the last pistol they made that I had any interest in.

teeroux
September 15, 2007, 03:16 AM
i had a usp 45 for years.

The dislike isnt with the weapon itself just hk's market scam my pistol had a hk style light rail that only hk lights would fit on unless you have the adapter from GG&G (which makes the big block even bigger without the light attached); spare mags are an arm and a leg, sights and hosters are hard to comeby.

All this when springfield, glock, beretta, S&W, and others all offered just as reliable pistols with the picatinny style rail most common to lights and lasers and most other brand of pistols have a wide selection of holsters and aftermarket parts hk has very few.

Thats why i made a switch from hk.

BlondieStomp
September 15, 2007, 03:53 AM
I don't think that cost has anything to do with the fact that almost every tactical team in every country from LEO to armed military personnel have some type of HK weapon in their stable. Wether it be our FBI or local SWAT teams, to some type of European counter terrorism unit, every tactical team on the face of the planet uses some type of HK firearm. To me, that says alot about their quality and dependability. Sure they are expensive, so what. Those of us that have chosen to spend the money (for the most part) seem to be more than satisfied with the purchase. If cost was the major deciding factor in supplying military or police agancies with any given weapon, then we all know that everyone would be using Glocks. But the fact that HKs are the "go to" weapons for the best of the best spells everything out to me. I see no reason to believe that HK would not subject the same quality control standards to their pistols that have made the MP5 one of the most important weapons of our time. Its' use throughout the world cannot be argued or misconstrued. It is THE weapon to use in close quarter combat.



I was actually arguing in favor of HK against glock but I suppose that sword cuts both ways. HK makes a great pistol. I especially like the p2000. The MP5 and G36 are beyond dispute in their quality and reliability. Are HKs expensive? yes. Are their ergonomics perfect? Maybe not on the USP series, but the p2000 is damn good and I'll bet the new p30 and p45 will be pretty nice in the hand also.

PPGMD
September 15, 2007, 11:11 AM
hk's market scam my pistol had a hk style light rail that only hk lights would fit on

Sigh another person that doesn't realize the history of the USP. The USP was designed in the late 80's and perfected in the early 90's, that was years before Glock and other started offering guns with rails on them.

As far as parts, yes parts availabillity sucks, and there are only one or two after market companies that carry a wide range of parts. Accessories like holsters OTOH, I never had a problem finding holsters, sure companies might not make every holster for the USP, but there is a wide enough selection to fit most needs.

Lights and such, well the UTL was simply a rebranding of the Insight M6 made for the USP mount, Hk discontinued that when the market stepped in with other companies offering light and lasers that went directly on the rail, or used an adapter.

Like the VP70 Hk was there first and others followed. And like the VP70 they don't get the credit they deserve for offering such an innovative product to the public.

ride-a-aug
September 15, 2007, 03:19 PM
OVERPRICED???? HK is a business to make money not to sell something at cost. What do you want them to do be a Winchester look where it got them.
Everyboby makes mistakes.

HK good-Mark 23 bad-VP 70
Sig good p210 bad 556
Glock good ???????????

On the same token I quess you will never own a Ed Brown ,Nighthawk, Wilson,
Colt NM, because they are overpiced?

I understand not everyone can afford high price guns, these companies know that too that is just the client they are targeting.

HappyGunner
September 15, 2007, 04:01 PM
From looking at the H&K video taken in Germany where their firearms are Mfg. and tested. I did not see any people working there that did not look German or from another Country.;)

AK103K
September 15, 2007, 04:08 PM
I understand not everyone can afford high price guns, these companies know that too that is just the client they are targeting.
I often think this is the core of a lot of the bitching when it comes to certain firearms. You often hear such and such is as good or better than so and so, but when questioned, such and suches owner never owned, let alone fired a so and so, why, for no other reason that it was out of their price range or those of who they associate with, to even have one available to try. But their gun is better, just because.... Then theres all the opinions based on the "I heards"......

Another comparison that is often made, is the comparisons to "custom" models of one type to the box stock versions of the other. Funny, when you often compare box stock guns of both types, the "customs" cheaper siblings dont do as well. Hmmm.....

Over the years, I've owned pistols of all types from just about every major maker out there. Three makers stand out to me as the most reliable and shootable out of the box. They are also the only ones I've never had to send back for repair. Those three are Colt, HK, and SIG. Some things may seem expensive at first blush, but in the long run, they often end up to be the best deal.

JAXX
September 15, 2007, 06:34 PM
HK should have stopped with the P7. It's the last pistol they made that I had any interest in.

Well then, I guess it's a blessing that your interest isn't what drives their manufacturing. Maybe you should give us a list of all the guns you are not interested in so we could lobby the gun makers to stop producing them, again, for the sake of your interest.

Dogbite
September 15, 2007, 09:21 PM
I shot the full size 45 a few years back. It was accurate, but felt huge in the hand, and every time the slide cycled, it felt like a box of Wheaties was moving back and forth. I was really excited about the gun, until i shot it. I decided against it because of the way it felt, and bought a Glock. I since then have bought another Glock, and neither have ever had one malfunction, or failed me in any way shape or form. I have looked at the HK compact, and would maybe consider one of those.

Perldog007
October 12, 2007, 07:12 PM
The only serious bona fide "operator" I ever got to work with (civillian security guard stuff, know he was real cuz I read his dd214 when I hired him) spent his hard earned cash on the USP.

Some guards/registered SOs did the same at an armed guard class. I outshot all of them with a $200.00 ballister molina paperweight with duct tape on one of the wooden grip panels.

Moral of this story - whatever you get, practice with it. I think the HK pistols are gorgeous. Want a USP someday.

The best "street guy" (retired D.C. cop) I know carries the P7 single stack.

AutoPistola
October 13, 2007, 01:12 AM
"The main reason why I dislike HKs USP is because of the ergonomics; if I didn't know any better I'd think the grip was designed for an ape."

+1

Other than USP, H&K seems to have it going on:cool:

ghalleen
October 13, 2007, 02:01 AM
Overpriced, but very nice guns!

abarth
October 13, 2007, 12:02 PM
Yea, I hate H&K for making me wait so long for the HK45! And once they have it on the market, I will probably hate them again for charging so much for the HK45! So yea you can said I dislike them very much.;)

Silvanus
October 13, 2007, 03:01 PM
I don't think that cost has anything to do with the fact that almost every tactical team in every country from LEO to armed military personnel have some type of HK weapon in their stable. Wether it be our FBI or local SWAT teams, to some type of European counter terrorism unit, every tactical team on the face of the planet uses some type of HK firearm.

Come on...Sure most of them use the MP5 because there's no serious competition for SMGs. But that's it. There are A LOT more special forces/"tactical teams"/ect. that use Glocks as sidearms (this is the semiauto forum, so I assume we are talking about their handguns) than H&K USPs or P2000s. That doesn't necessarily mean Glocks are better (well IMO they are) but it doesn't speak in favour of H&K either. In fact, I know no army that uses the USP other than the Bundeswehr. And of course they chose a German handgun.

Perhaps there are some Police or military forces in the US (I don't include the Mk23 there, that gun is a joke and nobody really uses it) that have H&K pistols, but there are not many (if any!) in Europe that I know of. I know their pistols are good (I personally don't like them though), but your arguments are simply not true.

RevolverLover
October 13, 2007, 03:13 PM
In fact, I know no army that uses the USP other than the Bundeswehr.

I know of Estonia, some units in Ireland, and some units in Asian countries that I can't remember of right off the top of my head. There are probably quite a few that i'm forgetting that are in military use or police use.

Choclabman
October 13, 2007, 08:51 PM
Could not be happier with HK.
Never a single problem, with any of mine.
I currently own 5 HK's and my wife has one. USP .40 V1, USP .40F V3, USP .40c V3, P2000 .40 V3, USP .45c. The wife has a P2SK .40 V3.
I have a P30, on order
My HK's have been reliable, with all types of ball and HP ammo. By reliable, I mean 100% with rounds put through them in practice, IDPA, and USPSA. The HK's are also very accurate.

Greg Bell
October 13, 2007, 10:34 PM
HK basically does the engineering, then the rest of the industry copies them and calls them overpriced. The problem with HK is that they are an engineering firm that happens to make guns.

AutoPistola
October 13, 2007, 11:14 PM
maybe in relation to a CZ, beretta, ect., they seem overpriced.

Consider the German engineering, fit, finish, shipping costs, and taxes.....well, maybe $700-800 for an HK isn't really a rip-off; it's on par with Sigs.

If I'm going to pay more than that for a handgun, it'll be something like a tricked-out 1911 or a Tangfolio race gun.

Greg Bell
October 13, 2007, 11:55 PM
it's on par with Sigs.

I agree. And SIGs are made in the USA. No Euro vs. Dollar insanity.

KALIFORNIST
October 14, 2007, 12:37 AM
The usp in 40 I shot didnt do a single thing my cz40b couldnt do and the usp is the double the price.I would happily pay more for the HK if it did anything better then my CZ.I guess you could say that the hk has less tool marks but to tell you the truth most of the tool marks I can find on the CZ are internal so who cares.The one and only neat thing that I think of is that on the HK is you have the ability to carry cocked and locked and also have a decocker.While not a huge deal for me because I am fine with manually decocking my CZ if needed that is still a pretty cool idea.But I cant be the only one that notices you have to have pretty large hands for a good amount of their pistols to be anything close to ergonomic.

Pilot
October 14, 2007, 07:53 AM
I really like the HK P7 series as I have both an M8 and PSP. I also have a USP Tactical .45 and its a fine shooter. 100% reliable and accurate. I bought it because I intend to get a can for it.

demondeacon
October 15, 2007, 08:24 AM
I bought a USP Compact .40 S&W based upon the reputation of H&K. It was the first time that I had ever bought a pistol without renting one for a test drive. What a mistake that was.

It didn't feel right in my hand, so I bought a slip-on grip. That didn't help much when it came time to fire it. I couldn't shoot the gun as accurately as my other .40's. It had an extremely sharp recoil. It was not the most user friendly weapon to field strip either.

They are overpriced and come with an exaggerated reputation. Gun store owners must know this well.It took me several attempts to find one that was willing to work out a trade. They all mentioned that there was little interest in them and that they were hard to sell. Check out how many are on gunbroker.com and don't even receive bids.

If I'm going to pay that kind of money for an auto-loader, it's going to be a SIG-Sauer. My P229 shoots like a dream. I can also buy a similar Glock for $250 less than an H&K and get much more gun.

TNFrank
October 15, 2007, 09:10 AM
I don't dislike em', I just can't afford em'. :cool:

Glk17
October 15, 2007, 09:19 AM
USP Tactical 45.....long gone......ridiculously high bore axis.....Glock works for me

IdahoG36
October 15, 2007, 09:50 AM
Ya, the elite special warfare units of the world are idiots for using junk like HK!
Give me a break.:rolleyes:

Greg Bell
October 15, 2007, 11:48 AM
OMG, HIGH BORE AXIS!!!!!:eek::eek:


Anyway, get a P7 then. Lowest bore-axis ever.


Talk to Bruce Gray and Ernie Langdon.

19doberman68
October 15, 2007, 02:40 PM
I absolutely hate the cost of H&K...

That being said, I plan on buying the P30 & HK45 in '08.
Dam the mortgage!

Rasputin
October 15, 2007, 10:35 PM
P2P

Real Men love H&K.



SUPERIOR MEN LIKE GLOCK:D:cool:;)
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/dantevirgil/Glock2018c20Maxed.jpg

RevolverLover
October 15, 2007, 10:45 PM
SUPERIOR MEN LIKE GLOCK


You know thats a toy airsoft gun right?

gr8gun
October 15, 2007, 10:59 PM
In general, I'd say I doubt I'll ever buy another HK... but that's not to say I outright don't like the brand. I owned a P7M8 for a while, and that was an amazing gun. Just too different from everything else I own to be a defensive gun, and I don't collect anymore, so I sold it.

I had a P2000 (LEM) .40 for a short while. As a lefty I was psyched about the ambi slide release, but that ended out being one of the reasons I sold it -- it felt cheap and loose, like I was just waiting for it to break off. It also made the gun thicker and kydex holsters for it had a wide spot to accommodate the twin levers.

Now I have a USP Compact .45 LEM, and its one of my favorite carry guns. Fits me perfectly. The drawbacks are the useless rail and the difficulty getting parts -- like I'd love to get some 'flat' magazine basis, but haven't been able to find them anywhere. It is the most reliable semi-auto handgun I own at the moment, it has never missed a beat even if I consciously lighten my grip or try to make it jam. I got a good deal on it lightly used though, doubt I could have afforded it new.

Rasputin
October 17, 2007, 04:53 PM
You know thats a toy airsoft gun right?

yes but i cant find the real one and this looks the same

buster55
October 17, 2007, 05:43 PM
At the present i own around 20 different semi aoto pistols,from cheapo p-64 makarovs to a nice Wilson Combat,although I have shot a few of my friends HK"s ,i have not owned one long term.
They seemed to be well made,price is dictated by personal taste,if you think it's worth it ,buy it.It's your money after all.I don't think I have ever had a gun that I couldn't find something good to say about it.It's a sport and hobby to me,so I try to learn and adapt to all forms of firearms.;)

Chui
October 17, 2007, 07:38 PM
Hmmm, "don't like H&K pistols". Well, I'm surely NOT one of those. Ergos of the USP was not a strong point. Neither was the trigger on many of them. But as for reliability I place them second to none. They are also accurate which is amazing considering the triggers. Durable they are as well.

The policy of the company needs working on. The P30 appears to be very well thought out, engineered and produced. It's zee Germans, afterall.

H&K, Glock, Sig, M&P, all tool steel, forged 1911. Cannot go wrong with any of them. If they fit your hand you've got yourself something.

Jart
October 18, 2007, 06:36 AM
I've got a couple P7s, but that doesn't make this any the less funny:

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you. (http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/)

IanS
October 18, 2007, 10:58 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/Ian111/hk_nien.jpg

It would have been funny if they spelled "Nein" correctly.:rolleyes:

Its not that I dislike HK but I just prefer Glocks, SIG Sauers, and Walther P99's as far as handguns go. I wouldn't complain if I had to use a USP, P2000, or esp a P7 though:cool:

281 Quad Cam
October 18, 2007, 02:08 PM
I got a USP fully intending for it to replace my Glock 19.

I moved to pocket carry and was finding that the Glock 19 was carried so rarely, it might as well be a full size gun that's more fun to shoot. The USP seemed to offer the full size package that could still be carried quite reasonably.

I was sorely disappointed. For me to list everything I found lacking with the gun for the price point would take a while, but in short I have newfound appreciation for the Glock even as a shooting-gun never mind carry and combat weapon.

H&K is for sale. I still think the P7 is one of the greatest 9mm's on the planet, but at that, H&K seems fit to discontinue it. I can't comment on the whole of their products but in the USP, I was disappointed.