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View Full Version : How does the HK USP compare to the Glock 21?


Unregistered
September 10, 2007, 04:48 PM
I am considering either the USP in 45 ACP, or the standard Glock 21.

How does the grip frame compare? Is the USP as big in the grip as the 21?

Silentarmy
September 10, 2007, 07:42 PM
I own Both. The USP is smaller in the grip than my 21. Of course the USP is more "IDIOT Proof" with its manual safety and decocker. The Ambi Mag release is nice on the USP and the Chamber is supported much better in the HK as well. You can't beat 13+1 mag capacity that the G21 boasts! I have had my G21 for 12 yrs and my HK for 5 Months. I am not ready to part with my 21 but to do it over again I would buy the USP Tactical instead! I have heard a few "lemon" stories on the HK but no such experiance myself.

hoytinak
September 10, 2007, 07:47 PM
The USP grip is a little smaller than the 21. I own a USP .45 and love it, got about 10,000 rds through her with no problems.

MTS840
September 11, 2007, 01:21 AM
I had both. Both are great guns. For me, the 21 pointed better and I was faster with it with follow-up shots. The grip on the USP was smaller but had a higher bore axis and I noticed more muzzle flip. The 21 felt flatter and was easier to pack around all day. The 21 was simpler in design and easier to find holsters, parts and accessories for. I gave the USP to my cousin. He was a happy man. I still have the G21.

IanS
September 11, 2007, 01:39 AM
I had both. Both are great guns. For me, the 21 pointed better and I was faster with it with follow-up shots. The grip on the USP was smaller but had a higher bore axis and I noticed more muzzle flip. The 21 felt flatter and was easier to pack around all day. The 21 was simpler in design and easier to find holsters, parts and accessories for. I gave the USP to my cousin. He was a happy man. I still have the G21.

+1 to everything you said. Except to me, both of them are like bricks with sights on top of them.

Alnamvet
September 11, 2007, 10:39 AM
Get the newer 21, the SF model, and with the Picattiny rail (if you can find them)...save yourself a lot of money...H&K's are way, way overpriced.

Jason_G
September 11, 2007, 08:17 PM
I prefer the USP45, but both would serve you well. I'm not big on the plastic guide rods, plastic sights, and overall construction of the rails in the Glocks, but all of those could be swapped out except the rails.

Jason

Silentarmy
September 11, 2007, 08:23 PM
I was not impressed with the USP rails as they are proprietary to HK accessories which are as expensive as the guns!! You can buy some cheesy adaptors for them but who wants that on their gun.

Night Watch
September 11, 2007, 08:32 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/Me_2U/GlockG-211-1.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/Me_2U/GlockG-212-1.jpg

Do I need to say anything? :p

(You can turn a G-21 into anything you want it to be; it's got 13 rounds - My backup magazine has 17! - and, best of all, you don't have to put up with crappy H&K factory service! Anything you really need or want to do on a Glock can happen at your workbench.) ;)

Greg Bell
September 11, 2007, 09:36 PM
To be fair, the HK factory service thing is usually pretty moot. Very few of their guns have problems. OTOH, Glock sent me one gun back twice trying to make me accept a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. I even have the target they shot which is off to the left and says "meets Glock Specs" and they had jacked the sight ALL the way over. They eventually replaced it though.

Night Watch
September 11, 2007, 10:27 PM
:) Greg, I absolutely believe you. Neither have several of my experiences with Glock, Smyrna, been all that honest and above board. As a matter of fact when I stop to think about factory service, ALL of the major American firearm manufacturers with whom I've dealt have treated me far, far, better than any of the foreign manufacturers - except Arsenal, Las Vegas, whose American factory service is extraordinary!

H&K wll never know how much money they've lost because so many of their owners have warned me not to get involved with H&K unless I really have to. Primarily because I'm able to repair them at home, my last two pistols have been Glocks. In the beginning, I had warranty issues with one of these Glocks, and quickly learned that I didn't want to do business with Glock, either.

Today, there is nothing I can't fix on one of my own Glocks; and, I really like things this way. ;)

Logs
September 12, 2007, 02:38 PM
Good choice either way you go I think it comes down to what feels better to you.


I have used my G21 on a combat match where you had to do a mag change and then shoot a few targets left handed. I did the coarse twice and hit the mag release with my left hand both times and lost time because I dropped the mag.....oooops

The HK would be better if you shot in similar matches where you had to use opposite hand, the HK mag release goes down and not in like the Glock.

I sometimes carry the HK USP .45 compact, I have the full size USP in 9mm and not .45, so I can't give you a full size to full size .45 comparison.

Logs

STAGE 2
September 12, 2007, 05:51 PM
A USP is a glock that is more accurate. I own both, like both, but the USP isn't in the same league.

Jason_G
September 12, 2007, 05:57 PM
Jason:I'm not big on the plastic guide rods, plastic sights, and overall construction of the rails in the Glocks, but all of those could be swapped out except the rails.

Silentarmy:I was not impressed with the USP rails as they are proprietary to HK accessories which are as expensive as the guns!! You can buy some cheesy adaptors for them but who wants that on their gun.
Just wanted to make it more clear that I was talking about the slide/frame rails, not the accessory rails.

Jason

Jason_G
September 12, 2007, 06:01 PM
and, best of all, you don't have to put up with crappy H&K factory service!
FWIW, H&K service has improved by leaps and bounds by every recent account I have heard.

Jason

Alnamvet
September 12, 2007, 06:40 PM
is not bad...almost as good as a Glock...but gee...what an entrance fee...and you still get the cheap seats.

STAGE 2
September 12, 2007, 07:16 PM
is not bad...almost as good as a Glock...but gee...what an entrance fee...and you still get the cheap seats.


How so. By all accounts, HK's are more accurate than glocks. Tighter lockup and tighter tolerances. Reliability is a wash.

NetJnkie
September 12, 2007, 07:40 PM
HK service has gotten MUCH better. They've been very easy to work with.

Night Watch
September 25, 2007, 09:44 AM
A USP is a Glock that is more accurate. I own both, like both, but the USP isn't in the same league.

:) I could have bought any pistol I wanted – Period. I very carefully chose the Glock Model G-21. Yes, the, ‘entrance fee’ is considerably lower; but, by the time I got done building my G-21 into that pistol I wanted it to be, well, it ended up costing almost $300.00 more than a brand new H&K USP.

Spent this past Saturday shooting both my G-21, and a friend’s USP. The only difference I saw in accuracy was that my G-21 consistently outshot his USP; AND I, also, found the USP to be considerably less comfortable to shoot. I really didn’t like the significantly increased recoil; and, the narrow backstrap kept digging into the web of my gun hand.

If I ever had, ‘the hots’ to get a USP, this past Saturday put an end to the thought. From now on, I’ll stick very close to my Glock G-21, and never take, ‘ugly’ for granted again! ;)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h39/Me_2U/GlockG-213-1.jpg

Well, maybe, not sooo ... ugly! :D

marikhal
September 25, 2007, 09:49 AM
So you're saying your custom Glock out-shot a USP?

Say it ain't so! :rolleyes:

Night Watch
September 25, 2007, 10:12 AM
:confused: I don't know? May be it's just me! ;)

STAGE 2
September 25, 2007, 02:44 PM
Night watch, I'd be willing to bet that your custom barrel has more to do with acccuracy than the platform itself.

If you take an HK and a glock and shoot them from a bench vise, the HK will have tighter groups. Thats not to say that the glock is bad. Quite the opposite. In fact I doubt for an average shooter that the difference would ever be needed. I just prefer the tightest groups I can get.

Night Watch
September 25, 2007, 05:39 PM
:) Stage2, Of course I agree with you! It's just that I don't really need more accuracy than I'm getting; and, while I don't want to come across as a, 'Glockaholic', it's been my general experience that many Glocks are considerably more accurate than they're often given credit for.

Yes, the USP is the more accurate of the two platforms - I don't doubt that; but the shooter, also, has to be figured into the equation. ;)

MTMilitiaman
September 25, 2007, 07:18 PM
And what of the fact that you can buy a brand new Glock 21SF and drop an aftermarket KKM or BarSto in to it and still pay less than a brand new USP?

Not that it is really needed for most. An aftermarket barrel with a tighter chamber can help increase case life for those who load their own, but that is about the only advantage they serve. The factory Glock barrel is very high quality and perfectly safe with SAAMI approved factory ammunition, including, in the case of the .45, +P ammunition.

So if price is an issue, then I would suggest any number of different things before an aftermarket barrel for those who don't plan to reload--mostly ammo and magazines.

But of course, if the nearly flush slide lock lever annoys you, it can be replaced at home for about $40. A new SS captive recoil assembly and ISMI spring with a weight of your choosing can be had for about the same price from Glockmeister. The SF already gives you the option of choosing between an ambi mag release and Picitanny rail, or the standard rail and mag release.

The Glock trigger is at least as good as the USP trigger. Even in single action, the HK trigger involves take up and a long reset that isn't present with the Glock trigger. And again, it is a lot easier to adapt the Glock trigger to your preference than it is to change the HK.

The Glock has a lower bore axis, is just as reliable, is accurate enough for most practical purposes, its cheaper price allows the shooter to shoot and practice more, or to upgrade anything they don't like in the original pistol while still keeping it at or below the price of the HK. And that isn't even including savings from buying magazines, which are usually at least ten or fifteen dollars cheaper for the Glock than for the HK. The Glock gives you an extra round in the mag, and once more, it can not be over emphasized that it is simpler to operate and to maintain. There are only like 34 total parts, and with instructions from a 30 second Google search, you can change or repair each and every one of them by yourself, usually with little more than a Gerber multi-tool.

Night Watch
September 25, 2007, 08:48 PM
:) I think you'll find that a Glock with a fitted Bar-Sto Barrel, also, has a significantly improved lockup. Both of mine are, certainly, tighter and produce better than average groups. (Again, maybe, the shooter?) ;)

I've heard rumors that a tighter chamber can lead to feeding or reliability problems; but, umpteen thousand rounds later, it ain't happened. There are, also, accuracy improvements associated with tighter chambers that shouldn't be overlooked.

The big advantage to the USP comes from the front barrel lockup. It's a better system than on a Glock, but not by much. I've got tuned 1911's that will easily punch out target centers with far greater precision than I'm ever going to need from any pistol - including both of the aforementioned.

You don't get really exceptional accuracy out of any automatic unless the slide is tightened up, too; and, this isn't going to happen with any polymer frame pistol. ;)