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moonshot
September 9, 2007, 04:30 PM
I'm not really comfy with the .380, but my P3at is easier to carry than my PM9, and every now and then, I yearn for the days of P3at carry.

Even now, I still wonder about .380 effectiveness, not so much compared to 9MM, but just by itself.

One question I have never seen answered - why does the Corbon .380 DPX at 80gr have better penetration numbers than the Remington 102gr Golden Saber? I understand why it may expand better (faster out the tube and better bullet construction), but it should penetrate less (less weight and larger surface area). As penetration seems more important then expansion, I thought the Golden Saber would be the better choice, but everything I read points to the DPX load. Is it just good marketing?

I have also wondered about the best .380 load for my P3at when the KT is primary. Many have said the KT should never be primary, but lets face it, sometimes the BUG gets front row duty.

Any opinions on the P3at as an only gun, and what load to use?

Thanks.

moonshot

jrothWA
September 9, 2007, 04:36 PM
the OSS had choice between the .32ACP or the .380ACP.
With these placement is the best factor to consider.
As I CPL a 2" .38Spl, either above would be good.
I think you should look at the Hornady Custom line as a better item to carry with.

JohnKSa
September 9, 2007, 05:56 PM
I've heard more than one person recommend FMJ for the .380 to insure adequate penetration.

Jkwas
September 9, 2007, 06:57 PM
The Boxotruth.com does some testing with the P3At and different loads. They recommend FMJ for .380 and smaller. I agree. Ball ammo will also feed more reliably, and overpenetration with this gun and caliber should not be an issue.
I load mine with S&B FMJ and have no qualms with using it as my main carry gun. It's a good shooter as well, and has been a nice surprise.

45Marlin carbine
September 9, 2007, 07:27 PM
I have a Browning BDA (made by Berreta), a slick rig. Golden Sabers shoot tighter groups than anything in it. I load my own on the 'hot' side. I carried it until I realized what it's worth and got a Makarov. like it too. carry FMJ in it.

rgates
September 9, 2007, 09:26 PM
I've not seen the numbers myself but could the better penetration possibly be from higher velocity that you would normally see from a lighter bullet?

As far as the P3AT as primary, I'm thinking of getting one as my CCW at work. Sitting at a desk all day the Makarov gets pretty uncomfortable just from the weight. I think the P3AT would be practically invisible and small and light enough to be comfortable.

madmag
September 9, 2007, 09:44 PM
I used the Corbon 90g HP load rated @ 220 ft. lbs. I thought it worked pretty well, and it worked great in my Bersa Thunder .380.

michael t
September 10, 2007, 12:54 AM
The DPX is designed to penetration deeper That the DP = Deep Penetration X. Corbon used a P3AT for their test pistol So the DPX is a good choice. I have been using in 380 and 45 since offered. It has never given me any problems feeding in 4 different 380's and 7 1911's
Iam sold on DPX Carry your 9mm and use DPX in it.

Jkwas
September 10, 2007, 07:05 AM
As far as the P3AT as primary, I'm thinking of getting one as my CCW at work. Sitting at a desk all day the Makarov gets pretty uncomfortable just from the weight. I think the P3AT would be practically invisible and small and light enough to be comfortable.

As I see it, that's the main problem with the P3AT: It's so easy to carry, you don't want to carry anything else. My other guns are so lonely. They have only each other for support :(

DAdams
September 10, 2007, 08:16 AM
Here are some tests run with various .380 loads in a Seecamp.
Your results may vary.

Starts out:

I've seen some major discussions in other forums on the pros and cons of expansion versus penetration when it comes to the 380 as a defense load. According to some FBI reports penetration of 12" or more is optimal and if you have expansion with it so much the better. I was wondering if we have any good data on expansion and penetration on the recommended 380 ammo for our Seecamps as I believe it is difficult to get 12" penetration on any 380 load.

Doug




http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1187908872

Then there is this:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/380acp.htm

.380 Tests from a BERSA

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Bersa%20Thunder.htm

Bob O
September 10, 2007, 05:42 PM
Here's a fairly comprehensive list of links to .380 Caliber Ammunition Tests. Have Fun!!!
(Some links may require user registration.)
=========================================

Many .380 and other caliber tests. !!!You must register.!!!
http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?board=39.0

OG & Friend's Ballistic Test Results
http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10.html

2d Gen P-3AT Analysis Part 2 (includes wet pack test)
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4534&view=next&sid=4935fcafa65b7bfa384953776a49d0df

The Last Crusade - .380 Wet Pack Test
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4791&view=next

mouseguns.com - Ammunition and Ballistics
http://www.mouseguns.com/amball.htm
Scroll down to the .380 section.

The Box O' Truth #26 - Little Guns vs. The Box O' Truth
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot26.htm

Ballistic gelatin testing results : .32NAA 90 grain Sierra JHC
http://www.thehighroad.org./showthread.php?t=199435&goto=nextnewest

DPX/Gold Dot Raccoon test.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1148245402;start=

Head-to-head test: DPX vs. Ranger-T
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1149377730;start=

MONSTER WET NEWS MULTI-GUN-TEST
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1148670025;start=

P3AT CHEAP JHP WETPACK TEST
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1166124717;start=

Smilies and Wet Newspaper Test
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1116435642;start=

Wet Newspaper Test: Corbon DPX .380 HP
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1147392682;start=

Wet Newspaper Test: Santa Barbara 87g.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1123002383;start=

Wetpack Test: DPX, GD, GS, Ranger-T, etc.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158344941;start=

WINTER/SUMMER WETPACK TEST DONE
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158537757;start=

Fly&Og Revisit DPX with GS, GD, and more!!
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5320&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

More Smiley Tests with a 1G P3AT
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5725&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Smileys Revisited
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5416&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

THE FLY AND OG .380 DPX WETPACK TEST WITH 4 PISTOLS!!
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5183&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Cor-Bon .380 DPX "Wet Pack" test with LWS380
http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1148012398/0

.380 ammo testing--DPX / GOLDEN SABRE / GOLD DOT
http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1166065107

Cartridge Performance: .380 ACP
http://www.geocities.com/bersa_thunder/cartridges.html?20054

Selecting a .380 Cartridge
http://www.geocities.com/bersa_thunder/cartridges2.html?20054

Bersa Thunder .380 with Cor-Bon 80-gr. DPX Ammunition
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Bersa%20Thunder.htm

Brassfetcher .380 ACP Tests
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP.html

Cor-Bon .380 70 gr PowRBall
http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10020

Cor-Bon .380 80 gr DPX
http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10021

.380 ACP at StevesPages
http://stevespages.com/page8f380acp.html

Preliminary .380 wet pack report for your amusement
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=232

Gel test today!
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1167146283;start=

.380 Ammunition & Barrel Lengths at recguns.com
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IVG10.html

UMC JHP/ AE FMJ ACCURACY SHOOT OFF
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1169330024;start=0

.380ACP Federal Hydrashok in gelatin
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175606

Corbon DPX .380 into newsprint
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1174574610

Cor-Bon DPX .380 in Ham
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1176045806
See reply #4

Ballistics data - 7 hollow point velocities
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1178377727

9mm Versus .380 ACP For Self-Defense
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm

Test Results: The effect of moisture on .380 ammo
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1179005761;start=0#

Dan334’s .380 ACP and 9 mm Para DPX water jug test
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1184294414
See reply #9

.380 ACP Hornady 90gr XTP JHP (Beretta 85)
http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/380acp/hor380-90xtp-b85.htm

.380 ACP Winchester 95gr Supreme SXT JHP (Beretta 85)
http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/380acp/win380-95ssxt-b85.htm

Double-Tap .380acp GDHP wetpack test
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1185827504
http://handgunsandammo.proboards36.com/index.cgi?board=terminal&action=display&thread=1185827786

Sweet! Double Tap .380!
http://handgunsandammo.proboards36.com/index.cgi?board=calibers&action=display&thread=1184702603

another wetpack test: .380acp hollowpoints
http://handgunsandammo.proboards36.com/index.cgi?board=terminal&action=display&thread=1158500968

.380 Gelatin Tests by John Farnam and Cor-Bon’s Mike Shovel
http://defense-training.com/quips/2006/10Apr06.html

Wetpack test: Fiocchi XTP JHP, etc. (DT_Willy)
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1188170764

cnorman18
September 14, 2007, 11:05 PM
I carry Double Tap JHPs in my P3AT. As good or better than any JHP on the market, and at almost half the price--50 rounds for a couple bucks more than 20 DPXs. They make a FMJ load, too, if that's your thing.

I'd rather have a .380 in my pocket than a .45 at home. Walther PPKs have been popular primary pocket guns for decades--and the P3AT is half the size, half the weight, and one-third the price. What's not to love?

Wrangler5
September 17, 2007, 04:34 PM
Double Tap 380 JHPs use the Speer Gold Dot bullet and are NOT rated as +P loads. Other than price, is there anything to recommend the Double Tap rounds over the Speer brand loaded ammunition using the same bullet? (Coincidentally, Speer is what I have in my P3AT right now, and have had for the past couple of years.)

brentfoto
December 15, 2007, 04:00 PM
Bob O-

Thanks alot for all those reference links. Must've taken you considerable time to compile them, etc. Greatly appreciated! :)

PSP
December 16, 2007, 09:28 AM
Here's another link I didn't see in Bob O's impressive list. Thanks, pretty comprehensive.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/

mountainclmbr
December 16, 2007, 12:22 PM
I heard that the DPX style copper bullets penetrate deeper because the expanded bullet has big gaps between the expanded petals, therfore lower frontal frontal area and lower resistance for a given expansion diameter. I am trying to recall where I saw this information.

Gwyndon
December 16, 2007, 01:15 PM
Instead of starting a new thread, does anyone have a Glock 25 in .380? I'm curious about this little guy

RevolverLover
December 16, 2007, 01:19 PM
does anyone have a Glock 25 in .380?

The .380 Glocks can't be imported into the U.S.

Gwyndon
December 16, 2007, 01:25 PM
Oh Ok

cavediver27
December 18, 2007, 02:59 PM
My only 'real life' experience with the effectiveness of the .380 was with a large doe that was hit in the hind quarters by a car and was in the middle of the road struggling badly. One shot in the head with my P3AT with Golden Sabers from about 5-7 feet was all it took. I'm glad it was over quickly but it still made for a crappy day, if you know what I mean.