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View Full Version : AR-15- a trend or a fad?


enikkor
July 15, 2007, 10:58 AM
Walked into the latest Scheel's store/ It is the biggest I've seen.
It is pistol and guns and rifle galore.

Being interested in rifle target, but don't know anything about it, I just
walked around and saw the new Ruger M-14- Target, specially designed
for Benchrest. It has min of angle adjustment. The Sales guy told me
it is made for target, and the stock looks cool w/ a hole for ambidextrous
use.
Another customer overheard the talk, and said to me, if you are serious
about target, I should look into the latest AR-15s. He said that they are
very versatile, easy to take down, and even comes with adjustable
triggers, comes in 16, 20 and 24 inches barrels. It can be customized
to you needs or whims. They also comes with 30 rounds.

Any comments or experiences on the AR-15 type rifles. Who makes the
best or better? Thanks.

essexcounty
July 15, 2007, 11:16 AM
AR's are very similar to sex. Not a fad and are here to stay. I tend to listen to convention wisdom so I built a heavy 24" flattop and was rewarded with nice tight groups. I would tend to go with a proven platform. Essex

Ozzieman
July 15, 2007, 11:18 AM
But comparing a Ruger target mini to some of the high end AR-15 is like comparing a Vega to a Corvette.
There is no comparison. I have an AR15 that I have over $2500 invested, 400alone in the trigger and that’s a cheep target AR.
Ruger makes good guns, but show me one photo of some one competing at Camp Perry and winning with a Minni14 and I will eat your socks.
I have handled the Ruger M-14Target.
It’s a name, not a fact.
If you’re looking for a good priced semi auto 223 there are few that can beat the Mini but like in most cases you do get what you pay for. The Ruger is a good value for the dollar but as a competition gun it leaves a lot to be desired.
As a pinker, there are none better.

Socrates
July 15, 2007, 11:20 AM
Ruger is sort of famous for junk barrels with the guys I know.

So, buy ruger, replace barrel. Don't know about this new gun, however.

Mini 14's should be tack drivers, if the design was put together the way it was intended, or even close to the M1A from SA. It's always been a glaring pain, and, I would think embarassment to take such a fine action, and screw it up so badly.

Ruger has been known for taking basic designs and screwing the pooch. Single six convertible barrel specs come to mind...

Dr S

novaDAK
July 15, 2007, 11:23 AM
not all AR's are a target rifle out of the box, fyi. :) In this case I think you're right...you get what you pay for...if you want a target AR15 it's gonna cost ya :)

vox rationis
July 15, 2007, 01:55 PM
I had a stainless standard mini 14 that would eject brass right into the rear sight. The gun shot low despite adjusting the rear sight to maximum elevation, requiring the front sight to be shaved down. That skinny bitty barrel got hot quick, especially in the stainless and the accuracy became poor. It was reliable, so I'll give it that. I got rid of it. I might have had a bit of a lemmon, I don't know.

I also used to have a Colt AR15-A2 HBAR and that thing ran like a clock and gave MOA accuracy. The AR-15 was clearly and undoubtedly superior, but then again the mini was like $350 and the AR-15 $800 (back in the early 90's).

I think the mini's are good utilitarian rifles to have around, but AR-15's can be incredibly accurate if you are looking for a target gun. For maximum accuracy you'll need a match barrel with a .223 chamber. For maximum reliability make sure you get a 5.56 NATO chamber (and a full length Direct Impingement gas system as the carbines are not as reliable).

The AR-15 has been around for so long and is so modular and has so many variants that it is definitely not a fad.

FirstFreedom
July 15, 2007, 01:55 PM
They are a trend..... been getting ever more popular each year since the 70s, but with an increased rate of interest in the last 15 years.

If the gun-banners ever get their way, they will be an instant (former) fad, because you won't be able to get them if they are banned (obviously).

DnPRK
July 15, 2007, 03:23 PM
You won't find another semi-auto rifle on the civilian market that has better accuracy or ergonomics than an AR series rifle. They are easy to customize with an abundance of after market parts for the type of shooting you do - sites, optics, stocks grips, triggers, barrel length and caliber for plinking, target, varminting, hunting, or home defense.

workinwifdakids
July 15, 2007, 04:33 PM
AR's are very similar to sex.

I respectfully disagree.

I think AR's are very similar to watching porn... you see some, and pretty soon you want to have sex, too. Don't "zumbify" me, though: own whatever you want, spend whatever you want. I couldn't care less. There are thousands of people who choose the AR platform for home defense, SHTF, plinking, target shooting, hunting, and so on.

However, in my humble anecdotal opinion with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, the overwhelming majority of people who want ARs do so because of the 'tacticoolness' or 'mallninja prowess' of the piece, rather than for any genuine utilitarian value. Does that mean that every AR owner is that way? Don't be dense. I just said that a good portion of those who own ARs do so because they see it as a tool to accomplish something they want to do, rather than as some "in-club" status symbol.

On the other hand (and listen well), THANK GOD we live in a nation where 'wanting' something is good enough, and you can buy whatever floats your boat just because you want to. Flame away...

line1
July 15, 2007, 08:21 PM
In a moderate price range I would recommend a Rock River Varmint as a starter rifle in a 16 inch barrel. Later you could change it around to your liking . Its just a good shooter for the money. I have seen some AR rifles that do not group good even with good optics and ammo. There are better rifle out there for more money, but the above is one of the best at that price range. The customer was telling you correct.

FS2K
July 15, 2007, 08:35 PM
But if it is a good target rifle you are after, I would look into getting a Bolt Action rifle if I were you enikkor. Semi-Autos are OK, and there are some very good AR15's out there that are intended for Range/Target use, but noth every AR15 makes a suitable target rifle right out of the box in my opinion. Semi Auto's have moving parts in them as you are shooting due to the way they are designed. Moving parts (namely the bolt) can effect accuracy. With a Bolt Action you don't have any moving parts, hope this helped.

drewbuddy
July 15, 2007, 08:44 PM
fad. wait till the s.c.a.r gets down to reasonable prices. oh. and Hollywood find something else to depict in all of their movies (they've already started with the scar. go watch Miami vice)

but seriously, the m4 is a great entry weapon or cqc situation. the target ar is just that. a bench gun, but damn accurate. they aren't a <great> hunting weapon, as you have to limit what you use on them. the m16 is an adequate combat weapon, and i say adequate cause the .mil wouldn't have spent millions of dollars in the past 5 years trying to replace it if it was the answer all weapon

MHbushmaster
July 15, 2007, 09:51 PM
AR's perform well for hunting as well, they are not all just 5.56 or .223; heck they can be chambered in 7.62x39, 6.5, 6.8, 7.62x51, .450 Bushmaster, .458 Socom, .50 Beuwolf, etc....
Name any critter in N.America that cannot be taken by any combination of these? :p
I don't know of any fad that has lasted for over 40 years...

USMCG_HMX1
July 15, 2007, 11:12 PM
I just said that a good portion of those who own ARs do so because they see it as a tool to accomplish something they want to do, rather than as some "in-club" status symbol.


Wait wait wait ..... I'm not part of the "in crowd" ??????

Damn, again I've been denied.





Kris

Tim R
July 15, 2007, 11:16 PM
There is no comparison. I have an AR15 that I have over $2500 invested,

Dang! Service Rifle?

If you want the best out of the box AR target rifle that looks like a service rifle the RRA NM can't be beat. I would also suggest 1/4" X 1/4" Moa sights which means one click on the knob equals an approximate 1/4 inch change in impact at 100 yards for both windage and elevation depending on which knob you turn.

I use a RRA NM lower, (the part with the trigger) and put a White Oak Precision upper on the lower with two push pins. I took the RRA 2 stage that comes with the RRA NM reciever and send it to John at White Oak Precision with $35.00. $5.00 is used for shipping back. By doing this I have about $1100.00 invested in my AR. I do have another WOP upper coming just in time to break in and head for Perry as the old upper is about spent and in need of a new barrel.

drewbuddy
July 15, 2007, 11:23 PM
white oak.... mmmmm.....

i priced a precision rifle through them. basically i was going to use one of their 24" barrels, vltor upper (the new one, brain fart i can't think of the name), YHM quads, yhm flip up front sight, stag lower, magpul prs stock, magpul miad grip, RRA 2 stage trigger... and it was going to run me like $1200. that's not including optics. however i would never spend $1k on just a scope, so it'll probably be like a $200 or $300 optic. but i will probably never build it.

workinwifdakids
July 15, 2007, 11:40 PM
Wait wait wait ..... I'm not part of the "in crowd" ??????

Damn, again I've been denied.

It's OK, pal. My 5-year-old told me at dinner last night that I'm not one of the "popular people."

:D

Tim R
July 15, 2007, 11:48 PM
Drewbuddy, John does nice work. My WOP AR has been a hammer. I went to a FONRA dinner Friday night. There were some happy people there when they found out I had to work today instead of getting to shoot the local High Power match. Missing a match was pretty painful for me. What really hurt though was the fact I was 10 numbers off the raffle for winning a S&W 460.

Lane
July 15, 2007, 11:48 PM
(they've already started with the scar. go watch Miami vice)

where exactly is it in that movie?

Lane
July 15, 2007, 11:49 PM
(they've already started with the scar. go watch Miami vice)

where exactly is it in that movie?

sorry for posting twice didn't realize i did

drewbuddy
July 16, 2007, 07:36 AM
once they start raiding the trailer and during the final shoot out. the chick is carrying one, and so is the white dude.

http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/MiamiVice/47_D33_7743_400.jpg

is this the scar? i'm starting to have second thoughts.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/scar_l-1.jpg

okay. i'm wrong. i stand erected. -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- is it?

Casimer
July 16, 2007, 10:08 AM
+1 on the RRA National Match.
These give you a 1:8 20" match barrel rated for 3/4 MOA, a decent trigger, a free floating handguard, and can be found for about $1100, sometimes less.

I can't comment on the new mini 14 Target version - never even seen one.

BobAsh
July 16, 2007, 10:16 AM
I can't help but laugh at the question..."Is the AR a fad."

faster200
July 16, 2007, 12:07 PM
Me thinks that is one of the Sig 552 rifles or some such. I think the woman is using a G36K or other variant.

I could be wrong...

RockyMtnTactical
July 16, 2007, 12:21 PM
They aren't a fad. It's been around for 40 something years...

Combat rifles like the AR15 are popular because the nice ones are accurate, reliable, and super fun to shoot.

Take a look at Stag Arms or LMT.

Lane
July 16, 2007, 01:02 PM
yes that is a Sig 552 but i think the girl has a G36c

threegun
July 16, 2007, 03:36 PM
Just look at what rifle dominates action rifle matches. The AR brings accuracy and speed in a fighting rifle to new levels. When I replaced my AK rifles with my mini-14 there was a boost in accuracy and speed (due to the 223vs762x39 recoil difference). Then I replaced my Mini with the AR. The gun recoils less, is more accurate, and I can engage targets faster (due to less recoil and faster reloads). I resisted the AR for a long time. Boy what a foolish move on my part.

dustinlowery
July 16, 2007, 04:45 PM
i own AR15's because i used to working with them in the military and i am very proffecient with them i find they get dirtier than my CZ 858-2(can't own Ak's in canada because of the lie-berals) but it doesn't stop working and they are completely modular, they are without a doubt the rifle i would trust my life with.

Ocraknife
July 16, 2007, 05:30 PM
I respectfully disagree.

I think AR's are very similar to watching porn... you see some, and pretty soon you want to have sex, too. Don't "zumbify" me, though: own whatever you want, spend whatever you want. I couldn't care less. There are thousands of people who choose the AR platform for home defense, SHTF, plinking, target shooting, hunting, and so on.

However, in my humble anecdotal opinion with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, the overwhelming majority of people who want ARs do so because of the 'tacticoolness' or 'mallninja prowess' of the piece, rather than for any genuine utilitarian value. Does that mean that every AR owner is that way? Don't be dense. I just said that a good portion of those who own ARs do so because they see it as a tool to accomplish something they want to do, rather than as some "in-club" status symbol.

I respect your right to disagree. Personally, I have never bought a gun that I didn't think was cool, come to think of it, I have never seen a gun that I didn't think was cool. I haven't found a similar simi auto platform that is as accurate, well made, reliable, customizable, had the capacity, was as light and relativly cheap as the AR. If I found one I'd give it a try.

ElrodCod
July 16, 2007, 06:21 PM
I'm pretty sure that an off the rack AR from one of the big names will outshoot Ruger's new "Target" mini. The magazines are a lot less expensive too.

Joe the Redneck
July 16, 2007, 07:18 PM
Few things more useless than asking a large group of people "Should I buy a...?" question. Almost as useless as the 'Which is better...?"

It's your money, you know why you want it. All I can give you is my worthless opinion. Take it for what it is worth.

Buy what you want. Forget price. All price dictates is how long it will take you to pay off the dept or how long it will take to save up for it.

Were the two guns the same price, which would you buy? Buy that gun.

Joe

buckster
July 16, 2007, 07:26 PM
They were here before Hillary, Fiengold, Schumer, Boxer and Bloomberg, and will be here when they're gone. Guaranteed. They are very upgradable, ergonomic and accurate. My Bushy carbine gets 3/4 to 1" at 100 yds with factory ammo. Anti-gunners are a trendy fad.

drewbuddy
July 16, 2007, 10:33 PM
"They were here before Hillary, Fiengold, Schumer, Boxer and Bloomberg, and will be here when they're gone. Guaranteed. They are very upgradable, ergonomic and accurate. My Bushy carbine gets 3/4 to 1" at 100 yds with factory ammo. Anti-gunners are a trendy fad."

hopefully so, but beware the democrats should they take office next time around. they've gotten a tad slicker with their movements. they are no longer looking at "legal maneuvers"

there was an article published in last (2006) july's issue of the NRA's Rifleman. It was talking about a "treaty" the UN wanted us to sign. because it was a treaty, it didn't have to go before congress and would immediately start the banning process. scary thing is hillary was quoted saying that she would sign it the minute she got office.

also this thing with OSHA and the ammo plants.....

okay. this is headed towards a hijack... time for a new thread....

HankL
July 16, 2007, 10:34 PM
A fad for certain. I cobbled together my first one sometime in 1984 IIRC. That was around the time I became a firearms enthusiast. Even in 80's dollars they were very inexpensive to put together. Parts were plentiful and good milspec parts could be found at the gun shows. I'm sure they will fade away much like the hula hoop and slinky did. :D

My first. The Pro Point was added later during a "High Tech" phase I was going through.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25624&stc=1&d=1184642066

ScottFrench
July 22, 2007, 09:29 AM
Not a Fad. Definitely a trend that has been building for quite a few years. They are generally quality firearms (some of lesser quality than others) that are fun to shoot and can be used for competition and hunting. That the liberal Dems hate them makes them even more popular to own! :D

stinger
July 22, 2007, 12:53 PM
Definitely a trendy fad...I don't think they will make it in the long run. :D

Art Eatman
July 22, 2007, 01:09 PM
I'd have to say that thirty-plus years is a wee tad more than just a passing fancy. If the AR was just a fad, it would have been gone over twenty years ago...

Art

Double Naught Spy
July 22, 2007, 03:44 PM
Pet rocks were a fad. With a 40 year history and more and more companies making AR15s and accessories, calling them a fad is like calling them a derringer.

Kermit
July 22, 2007, 11:21 PM
I think the AR 15 has proven itself as a quality weapon and has established its place in many arsenals ;)

Toolman
July 24, 2007, 06:55 PM
Ar-15's are the most versatile rifles in the world.

hj28rules
July 25, 2007, 07:49 AM
Counting my military service, I would say the AR15/M16 platform is neither a fad or a trend but rather a fact of life. Mine is a Colt 16" HBAR15A3. Zeroed properly, it is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned.

LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
PO1 USN: 1964-1972 Viet Nam Vet
SFC US ARMY (NG): 1982-1996 Desert Storm Vet (ret.)

Manedwolf
July 25, 2007, 08:19 AM
I can definitely see combat rifles evolving (or, perhaps, rightly returning) to the gas piston configuration for reliability in adverse conditions. But for target use, there's nothing wrong with the direct impingement, dirty or not. Some have even said it might be slightly more accurate due to the lack of a moving piston, which is great for match use.

My long-term opinion is that combat M4s will go gas piston, the direct-impingement will remain for serious match ARs. And the rifle itself will stay around for quite some time.