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sleeper
May 26, 2007, 05:30 PM
was wandring if you guys had any recommendations on a rifle in.308 semi auto.i have a rra ar and i like the style but dont think i could afford the price....

DnPRK
May 26, 2007, 05:34 PM
Some versions of DPMS LR-308 can be found for $900ish.

Other than that, there is Saiga 308.

RoyP
May 26, 2007, 07:35 PM
I second the saiga 308..

PTR 91
May 26, 2007, 07:58 PM
A PTR 91, if your wallet can bare the price.

T. O'Heir
May 26, 2007, 10:34 PM
"...recommendations on a rifle in .308 semi-auto..." For what purpose and how much money do you want to spend? You want a battle rifle or a hunting rifle?

sleeper
May 27, 2007, 03:25 AM
i want a battle rifle and im looking as low as possible

ghettoestl
May 27, 2007, 06:55 AM
BAR short trac

Big-Foot
May 27, 2007, 11:23 AM
i want a battle rifle and im looking as low as possiblei have a rra ar and i like the style but dont think i could afford the price.

Saiga

Ammo Junky
May 27, 2007, 12:54 PM
I am kind of re-asking sleepers question, but what is the cheapest reliable semi in 308? What is a sagia? How about a cemet? Can old fals be had reasonable? I have there are older HKs that are good and aforadable?
TIA

FirstFreedom
May 27, 2007, 01:56 PM
Yes, the Saiga fits that description to a "T".

http://www.raacfirearms.com/rifles.htm

http://www.fbmginc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=37&Itemid=1

http://www.fbmginc.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=48&category_id=37&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

http://www.fbmginc.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=49&category_id=37&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

AR10FAN
May 27, 2007, 04:06 PM
I think your logic should be relooked.

"battle rifle" and "low" aren't good matches are they? If you REALLY need a rifle you don't need cheap, you need good.

If you can only have one (and you can certainly only FIRE one at a time) you should have the best you can afford even if it means cutting back somewhere else.

The half-import half-whatever rifles are a bad technical bet. FALs, AKs, etc with mixed up parts. All-Russian would make more sense.

Then there's the issue of parts and service.

I looked at a 7.62mm Garand and rate them higher than a cast M1A. The machined LRB M14 receiver is better if you can get one built with all GI parts but are expensive.

FALs? Back to half import surplus and half remake parts.

It comes down to the AR-10 or DPMS. The DP is less sophisticated and thus less expensive so you may have a lead there. They're respectable rifles.

I opted for the AR-10s because of its longer record and wouldn't change a thing, but that goes without saying.

My main point isn't go with a 10. My point is to go with the best you can afford even if it means waiting a bit.

Good luck. I wish you the best.

PTR 91
May 27, 2007, 04:26 PM
ammo junky, basically a saiga is a ak47 chambered in 308. There are differences but, basically the same.

Csspecs
May 27, 2007, 05:28 PM
Take a look at what the magazines cost for any rifle, that should give you an idea of what is truly cheap.

If you buy a saiga (I have one) and you have to drop 40.00 a magazine you are going to be up to the same cost as a well built rifle that takes G3 magazines or the like at 3.00 each.

Every firearm I buy I price the consumables FIRST. You can get the gun for free, but if each magazine costs 50.00+ and only holds ten rounds your going to be out more than paying 1000.00 for the gun and 3.00 a magazine.

Jimro
May 27, 2007, 09:50 PM
Saiga, 20 or 22 inch barrel. Top it off with a Kobra red dot or 4x scope.

Jimro

SteelCore
May 27, 2007, 10:41 PM
Since the .308 Saiga has been recommended by several, I'd like to ask a few things about it:

(1) What sort of accuracy (from the bench) can be expected?

(2) Are reliability and durability as good as a 7.62x39 AK?

(3) How reliable/durable are the 20-round mags that are currently on the market for these? (I've heard that FBMG makes them but am not aware of any others. Krebs is supposed to come out with some in the near future, though.)

Thanks in advance for any help!

Jimro
May 27, 2007, 10:47 PM
1) between 2 and 4 minutes of accuracy.

2) yes

3) I don't know, hopefully someone with first hand experience will chime in.

Jimro

sleeper
May 28, 2007, 04:33 AM
thanx to all but i think i'll go with ar10fan's recommendation,i had to save up to get my rra ar15, so thats what i'll do to get a dpms or armalite:)

sleeper
May 28, 2007, 10:56 PM
has anyone had any experience or know of rra's .308 would this be a good rifle??? .....it uses fal mags.......

john in jax
May 29, 2007, 11:00 AM
IIRC the RRA .308 AR is the one with the never-ending wait. The rifle had issues so they decided to re-design it and they were supposed to be out last fall, then again this spring . . . who knows when they'll actually go into production.

Don't get me wrong I applaud their efforts and integrity - - they aren't going to produce and sell a rifle until it is right/reliable.

I got tired of waiting and bought myself a DPMS LR-308 (free floated, 24", stainless, fluted, bull bbl) for Christmas. It's a sub-MOA rifle if I do my part and at $1,100 out the door a lot cheaper than other .308 AR's. It's tight, the fit and finish is outstanding and on the few ocassions I've taken it to the range it has been 100% reliable.

I liked my first .308 DPMS so much I just got another . . . a DPMS AP4 .308 carbine (free floated, 16" bbl). It is a great gun too. IMO with DPMS you get a top quality rifle for a bargain price.

Searching "DPMS .308" on gunbroker.com will give you an idea as to what is available and for about how much.

Keith Eckensviller
May 29, 2007, 11:16 AM
There is the Norinco nock off of the M1A1. I think they come in around $500 to 700. That is if you can get one (due to local laws). We can get them in Canada for about that. My budy has one and he's very impressed with it. It's not as nice as a Springfield but it's half the price and if I'm not mistaken the US made parts will fit on it!

Manedwolf
May 29, 2007, 11:21 AM
I'd rather have the Saiga, myself. Secondly FAL, but that's much more expensive. Gas piston = ultra-reliable, and both are gas piston.

AR platform? Dirty direct-impingement gas system for a .308? Uh...no thanks. I don't enjoy cleaning that much. That's a lot of crap through a rifle. I wouldn't want that in a SHTF situation! Maybe one of the new gas-piston ARs will come out in .308.

As to whether the Saigas are reliable, they're made by Iszmash, where Mr. Kalashnikov still works. I think that's a serious point in their favor. :)

Ben Shepherd
May 29, 2007, 01:36 PM
I work with the guys at FBMG. I have assembled A LOT of those 20 round 308 mags. From our infomal torture tests, they are MUCH stronger than the standard mags that come with the rifle.

As far as I know, we have had NONE of them come back with problems.

In the bang for your buck category, I don't believe the 308 siaga can be beat.

Accuracy wise: with a good scope the ones I've shot hold around 2" at 100 yards with good ammo.

FirstFreedom
May 29, 2007, 02:11 PM
Can anyone answer me this.... the Rock River .308 AR tooling was purchased from Bushmaster, in my understanding, after Bushy could not make the gun work and gave up. Evidently RRA is still experiencing trouble, which stem from the FAL mag interfering in the locking lug area or some such. The question is, why does DPMS not seem to have any problems - don't theirs use FAL mags too? Or are they making their own proprietary magazines?

Manedwolf
May 29, 2007, 02:16 PM
I would just like to see what the reliability of a 308 using the AR gas system is under adverse conditions, especially due to the likely increased amount of, well...stuff flying back through the tube from the much more powerful round and getting all over the bolt face. How many rounds of less-than-premium ammo you can fire before it gets completely full of crud.

I somehow can't see it being as reliable as the FAL or Kalashnikov gas piston design.

I am also interested in Kel-Tec's forward-ejecting 308 bullpup that takes FAL mags. THAT one looks nice.

prime8
May 29, 2007, 06:42 PM
Im happy with my 308 semi..... Went down the same road about a year ago. I chose the PTR, and dont regret it one bit. I can get consistant 1 1/2-2 1/2" groups at 100. Thats using surplus ammo. Shot a few 1 inch groups with Federal American Eagle stuff. Its not as accurate as a 308 bolt gun, or a .223 tuned ar. It is however, as accurate as most stock ar 15 w/ 16 inch barrel.Ive got the KFM4. Give them some serious consideration! And do not pass them off as a cheap HK knock off..... They are the real deal!!!!


http://www.ptr91.com/index.html

HorseSoldier
May 30, 2007, 12:33 AM
FAL, though I don't know if the price for an entry-level DSA rifle are in your price range. Century rifles can still be found for 6-700 or so (again, don't know how that gels with your price range), though they can be a bit of a crap shoot.

john in jax
May 30, 2007, 09:18 AM
First Freedom - - yes the DPMS .308 stuff is mostly proprietary. The DPMS will only accept use new DPMS mags or the original old AR Stoner mags.

Cmu_Sniper
May 31, 2007, 08:01 PM
M1A in any version. Nothing else compares.

Manedwolf
June 1, 2007, 08:03 AM
First Freedom - - yes the DPMS .308 stuff is mostly proprietary. The DPMS will only accept use new DPMS mags or the original old AR Stoner mags.

In other words, buying mags for it could quickly cost you more than buying a FAL and its cheap mags, I'd expect.

BusGunner007
June 2, 2007, 11:07 AM
This might work for you: :D

VEPR .308
http://www.hunt101.com/img/356412.jpg

I think this picture is on the ultimak site...http://ultimak.com/

Here's another one:

http://ultimak.com/pic6.htm
http://ultimak.com/gallery/VeprACR2ANPEQ.jpg

OneShotOnly!
June 3, 2007, 08:14 AM
Get HK 91. Its a .308 semi auto. Scope it, and nothing can beat it. Comes with retractable stock as well.