View Full Version : First post... Serious question...

Felonious Proximity
October 13, 2006, 07:22 PM
Hi guys, first time poster in the forum...

The question I have, is whats the best way to learn to "double tap" ??

Do you guys go for acuracy first, and take things slow.

Or do you just practice for speed and let the accuracy come from close to medium range ??

Thanks in advance...

Lee :)

October 13, 2006, 07:51 PM
Or do you just practice for speed and let the accuracy come from close to medium range ??

No, practice for smoothness and accuracy and let the speed come.

Welcome to the forum!

October 13, 2006, 08:05 PM
Proficiency comes with practice, speed from proficiency. I was tought to try to follow the front sight after the first shot. It moves too fast to actually do it, but your concentration is always on the front sight and that is where the proficiency in pulling up the second sight picture comes from.

Hard Ball
October 13, 2006, 11:16 PM
Jeff Cooper put it quite well when he said "Draw as fast as you can and shoot as slow as you must!"

Blackwater OPS
October 14, 2006, 12:24 AM
I would say shoot slow first and work on precision. Later you can work speed in.

October 14, 2006, 06:15 AM
In any combat shooting technique always start with smoothness and accuracy !...The proper technique for SD is to shoot and continue to shoot until the BG is no longer a threat .Don't assume it going to take just two shots ,keep shooting !!

October 14, 2006, 08:49 AM
As the master said:

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast."

October 14, 2006, 03:45 PM
"Double tap" is arbitrary. Think about hitting the head in a tactical situation where concealed body armor may be present. "Double tap" has been gone over many times.

Actually, "triple tap" is on order for many automatic weapons. Why not teach that?

October 14, 2006, 04:02 PM
I did an IPSC shoot with the number 2 shooter in Guatemala. While silhouette targets usually call for 2 shots each, he told me not to "double tap", but to deliberately fire 2 aimed shots as quickly as possible into the target. I think many people get the idea that the second shot is not really aimed, but just automatically pulling the trigger twice.

With enough practice, the gun will "reset" itself after the recoil of the first shot and you can shoot the second shot immediately afterwards. People with practice will be able to put their second shots very close to their first shots, and do it very quickly. It will seem like they are just pulling the trigger 2 times as quickly as they can. You can usually tell those who know what they are doing by how close their second shots are to their first shots.

October 14, 2006, 04:08 PM
There have actually been cartridges that automatically do the "double tap".

October 14, 2006, 04:39 PM
I had some training at the hands of the Army recently that focused on what they referred to as "controlled pairs." The instructor introduced the concept by saying something along the lines of, "you'll hear some people call this a double-tap, but we want you to think of two CONTROLLED shots, as quickly as you can fire them."

I find that as you practice this, your speed will improve. If you focus strictly on speed, though, I find it hard for your accuracy to "magically" improve.

October 14, 2006, 04:48 PM
When i was shooting a lot, excess of a thousand rounds a week, i was able to make sub 2'' groups at 25 yards on double tap practice targets. It becomes a second nature. A rhythmic thing, where you squeeze,tap, squeeze, tap. We would practice on a big sheet of tear off paper with a bunch of orange tar-dots spread out in a + shape, five dots. and the guy behind calling top, down, left right etc. you get pretty good pretty fast doing something like that.

October 14, 2006, 05:52 PM
Abby, more instructors are teaching the "controlled pair" nowadays, as it seems the true double tap, or more accurately the hammer, has fallen out of vogue. Like I stated in my last post, speed follows proficiency, the hammer is just pulling the trigger as fast as you can twice. The controlled pair requires proficiency in acquiring the second sight picture and enough practice can make is almost as fast as the hammer.

October 17, 2006, 01:13 AM
Jesus another who wants to die.

you dont double tap.

you dont two plus one to the head.

you dont ever think anyone will fall when you shoot them.

you do shoot center mass till they stop. not till they fall not till they say uncle but until that weapon falls or their ability to continue to take your life ends.

all you will do when you train in double taps is give them an extra chance to kill you as you pause. i guarantee their body wont even realise they are shot in that amount of time. they will realise they are in a fight for their life and you gave them a chance to continue to kill you.

head shots wont stop anyone instantly. there is an acorn sized spot behind the bridge of the nose that will stop someone instantly. your not going to hit it with a hand gun. your not going to hit the heart and stop them. your not going to hit the pelvis and stop them. the only way to stop them is shoot center mass till they stop,

all you do if you spend hours training in these techniques is to ensure that when the sh1t hits the fan you will act exactly like you trained. that means if you train double tap and reassess you will double tap and get killed.

if you shoot stop and assess you will shoot and get killed.

your training drills should not include any thing that equates to pausing till the threat stops. people will not drop if they get shot unless for some reason they have seen a movie and they think your supposed to fall when you get shot.

great he fell. he will then quickly realise adrenaline is raging thru his veins and he is not dead but will be if he doesnt do something and will kill you.

bottom line is train to shoot till the threat stops. include moving for cover and include what ever you want but there should never be any pause anywhere unless the threat stops.

if during a fight you have to reload then congratulations your one of the 1 or 2 percent who lived that long and it will probably be because you shot till the threat ended.

its boring ad probably annoying to hear this repeated but i got to tell you it is a sh1t load better than being DEAD or looking at your DEAD family because you double tapped and paused.

never do a drill that includes stopping to assess. drill till the threat stops.

October 17, 2006, 03:22 AM
Jesus another who wants to die.
Not every new shooter with a question on his mind wants to die. If anything, be glad you're in the company of someone who has the courage to ask at the risk of embarrassing himself, rather than pass over the question entirely and silently endure being uninformed.

That said, there's something to be said for double taps. If anything it's a great stepping stone to controlled rapid fire.

Don't get me wrong, you basically have the central idea - one should fire at the target until the target is stopped. Legal issues are secondary when your life is in immediate danger.

Also, welcome to the forums, Lee, and cool name. :D

Shawn Dodson
October 17, 2006, 08:41 PM
Never sacrifice accuracy for speed. Speed will develop naturally with experience.

Learn to watch the front sight lift off your aimpoint as the gun recoils. With a good shooting platform, your front sight should return to the aimpoint as you recover from recoil. For me, the front sight is just a blur of movement as it lifts and returns. As soon as the front sight returns to the aimpoint you merely press the trigger again.

As distance decreases you'll learn you don't need to obtain the same quality of sight alignment that's needed at longer distances to get good hits.