View Full Version : J.P Sauer and Suhl Shotgun, looking for a general age

September 26, 2006, 11:32 PM
99524 is the serial number, all parts match the number, on the barrel the names "Fluss Stahl, Krupp-Essen" are stamped on.

I'm sorry I don't know much more about this gun. I have 8 different ones that were left to me when my father passed away. Any information to start would be great, and appreciated




Jim Watson
September 27, 2006, 07:03 AM
Pretty old, considering it is a hammer gun with the left hammer missing.
Read off or photograph the proof marks on the barrel flats and action under the barrels. That might let the gun be dated in a general way.

September 27, 2006, 03:01 PM
Fluss Stahl, Krupp-Essen means fluid steel barrels (forged as opposed to Damascus/twist barrels), Krupp-Essen is a famous steel maker.

September 27, 2006, 07:33 PM
krupp was desolved after WWII. so before 1945. I had a beautiful one made in 1940. sold it for a motor cycle.

September 27, 2006, 09:34 PM
These are the best pictures I could get of the markings, something that cannot be seen in the photos, the gun is also stamped with the words "Nicht Fur Kugel" I don't know much for German, but I get "Not Fur Ball" out of that, so i'm wrong on something there :)



Jim Watson
September 27, 2006, 11:20 PM
Proof marks are in accordance with the proof law of 1891. Unfortunately, they did not rewrite it until the Nazi era in 1939. So I cannot tie it down any closer than that for sure. Unless there is a "Nitro" or "(Crown)/N" mark not in the pictures, it was NOT tested with smokeless powder. This may mean that it was made before 1913 or even before 1908 when smokeless proofs got standardized for shotguns in Germany.

"Not for ball" means the gun is not approved for firing round balls through choked shotgun barrels indicated by the "(Crown)/W" mark. Some risk of bulging or blowing off the choke of a mild steel or Damascus barrel with a full size ball. Undersize "punkin" balls are not much good, and Brenneke got successful with slugs to be fired from choked shotgun barrels.

September 28, 2006, 12:14 AM
There is no crown N on the gun, I tried taking another look. All that information was very helpfull though, I found a German Gun collectors website from learning about the "Crown over" information. they might be able to help a little more

September 28, 2006, 01:09 PM
You have imperial eagle proof marks on it, so that will put it before WWI (Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated before the end of WWI, and German sporting arms were greatly curtailed during the war). So likely before 1914.

I have seen the stamp of the guy with the spear before, and I know that means something special, but for the life of me I cannot remember.

September 28, 2006, 03:43 PM
Don't know if this will help or not, but you could try contacting the company. They are still in existance.


The phone number is at the bottom of the page.

Also it's appears newer then 1881. This is on the company web page:

The commendation of Sauers side-by-side rifle at the World Fair in 1881 heralds a new age in hunting rifle production and lays the foundation for todays hunting rifle culture. Together with Friedrich Krupp, Sauer develops special steels for the production of high-quality barrels.

Another interesting thing I found was that the name on the shotgun is J.P. Sauer und Sohn, Suhl. And that Suhl was famous for their engraved firearms.


September 28, 2006, 09:40 PM
I thought I heard the "caveman" was a symbol for the company,