View Full Version : IWB Carry Question
June 7, 2006, 06:19 PM
I've been carrying a revolver on my ankle and/or my USPc IWB off and on for a year or so and am about to purchase a commander sized 1911. I really like carrying inside the waistband, but I am leary with a single action pistol. If i carry loaded, hammer down, am i that much more safe over cocked with safety on. Or should i just go military style and carry unchambered (not the first choice for me, but id rather not shoot my decendants off). I dont wear lots of jackets and stuff to cover up other types of holsters and am looking for the best way to carry a 1911 IWB. Any help would be appreciated.
June 7, 2006, 06:31 PM
In the end it's up to what you feel comfortable with.
If you feel like you can fight a guy off who's pistoning a knife into your stomach with your left hand while you're racking the slide of your 1911 with your right hand, then condition 3 is for you.
Remember; in the military, your sidearm is your secondary weapon. If you are carrying as a civilian, your sidearm is your primary.
All that being said, a cocked and locked 1911 in good mechanical condition is not going to go off unless the safety is taken off, the grip safety is depressed, and the trigger is pulled.
June 7, 2006, 06:38 PM
I carry a BHP cocked and locked, it has no grip safety
June 7, 2006, 06:39 PM
When I first began carrying a 1911 I must admit that the idea of carrying cocked and locked was a bit intimidating. But it really is the only way to carry a 1911 IMHO. The important thing also IMHO is to make sure you purchase a holster that protects and covers the thumb safety.
June 7, 2006, 07:06 PM
"The important thing also IMHO is to make sure you purchase a holster that protects and covers the thumb safety."
This is where my dilemma arises, most IWB holsters for 1911s do not cover the thumb safety, they sit high with the safety against your body on a right handed setup. I dont care about my USP because i could hit the hammer with a brick when its decocked and it wont go off. Is this the same with 1911s?? If the hammer is down and a round is chambered, will it AD if something slams against the hammer accidentially. Incidentally it is a Series 2 Kimber...dont know if a "schwartz style" safety will effect this any.
June 7, 2006, 07:15 PM
I don't mean this in any bad way, but if you carry a single-action 1911-style auto, carry cocked and locked. Otherwise, buy another gun. You'd be better served.
June 7, 2006, 07:15 PM
A Series 2 Kimber has a firing pin safety.
June 7, 2006, 07:16 PM
If the hammer is down and a round is chambered, will it AD if something slams against the hammer accidentially. Incidentally it is a Series 2 Kimber...dont know if a "schwartz style" safety will effect this any.
Since the rear of the hammer is mostly protected by the grip saftey, it is extremely unlikely. The Swartz-type firing pin safety (used in Kimbers, Paras, S&W 1911s etc. etc.) is deactivated by pressing the trigger.
June 7, 2006, 07:28 PM
First of all,why are you changing from a USPc??HK's are pretty good handguns for concealed carry.Second,take a good look at a few of the Para Ordnance LDA pistols,it's the best of both worlds if you're really stuck on the 1911 design,and the LDA trigger is awesome.Since you're thinking Commander-sized,check out the Para Carry model.I have a 6+1 version,nice and small..:D
June 7, 2006, 08:45 PM
Im not really switching, more like changing flavors. Ive always wanted a 1911 especially "commander" sized plus i like to carry all my guns, and get used to them in a concealed form. I like my USPc but the only gripe i have is that i dont have any flush mags, the finger extension really pokes into me and into the cloth of the shirt outlining the gun. I guess thats just nitpicking and in reality i want a 1911 because i think 1911s are sexy looking guns and i really want one for fun and carry.
June 7, 2006, 09:57 PM
Shaun, . . . think about it objectively for a minute (or 2):
How many actions are needed to fire a revolver: 1, . . . pull the trigger.
How many actions are needed to fire a Glock or similar pistol: 1, . . . pull the trigger.
How many actions are needed to fire a cocked and locked 1911: 3, . . . take off the thumb safety, . . . squeeze the grip safety, . . . pull the trigger.
My money is on the 1911 as being THE safe handgun when compared to ALL the rest, . . . but then again, . . . that's my opinion and has been since 1966.
May God bless,
June 7, 2006, 09:58 PM
all i needed to hear dwight, thanks
June 7, 2006, 10:29 PM
If you are going to go with a 1911, you should carry it as it was designed, Cocked and locked. You should also go through a class with it, like Thunder Ranch, Gunsite or Blackwater, something of that sort to gain comfort and familiarity with that platform. I've heard about the IDF's carrying condition 3 and racking and shooting. Good for them. Are you an IDF ? Then don't go around carrying a defensive weapon thats not ready to shoot. IMHO that's asking for Mr Murphy's attention. As a young man, I was trained with the 1911. I carry a S&W 4516. Good luck with your decision, be safe. Regards 18DAI.
June 8, 2006, 07:34 AM
The Max Con V by Gary Brommeland, www.brommelandgunleather.com covers and secures the thumb safety. I use three of them for my cocked and locked 1911's. His holsters are very reasonable and as good a quality as you can find. He has just introduced a Service Grade which is a good bit less expensive and obtainable faster. The Service Grade is not in his website yet but a call to Gary will provide all the info you will need to make an informed decision.
Another thought is that when I and most other CCW folks carry, we are prepared for instant action, which is like a military man being on patrol where he would have his weapon cocked and locked, ready for instant use.
June 8, 2006, 08:44 AM
Cocked and locked is the accepted way to carry your 1911. I have carried my Commander that way for years.
June 8, 2006, 09:36 AM
Both companies make very good IWB rigs that cover the safety on a 1911.
In addition you do NOT want to have the big honking "gas pedal" style safety found on IPSC race guns and the like. Personally I have no problem with the standard Gov't model safety. You could also look at Wilson COmbat's extended safety for CCW. It is larger than the standard but not so wide it will easily hang up on things.
June 8, 2006, 10:36 AM
I carry all three ways.
But for hammer down, I prefer "mil spec" spur hammers as they are faster and easier to cock or decock.
the Big beaver grip safety is bad about being difficult to decock and sometimes they get in the way of thumb cocking the hammer.
Most old timers I know who packed a .45 preferred condition two carry anyway, hammer down on a live round. :cool:
June 9, 2006, 03:17 PM
Cocked and locked
June 11, 2006, 04:06 PM
Wilson Combat makes the Featherweight IWB. It has a pair of "shields" that cover (and lock, according to the ad) the safety and work with extended/ambi. The Summer Companion has a single shield. Several of his paddle/belt holsters have the safety shield on them.
I've carried 1911's and BHP's C&L for years and have never found the safety to have worked off by itself. The biggest prob I have with C&L IWB is the hammer digging into my love handles.:D
June 15, 2006, 12:22 PM
hello there chaps
carry the 1911 the way mr b. designed it...cocked and locked. also consider hoffners ultimate shirt tucker iwb kydex holster...it's more comfortable than my thong...crap, was that out loud ???
my 1911s (all sizes) fit the same holster, and they, hoffners.com, has quick turn around.
it took me all of one day to get by that uncomfortable feeling of a cocked and locked, one in the chamber mode of carry...even with the 'buckeye tuck' constantly hitting and knocking off my ambi-safety everytime i exited the car....also shooting alot of idpa has helped my phobias with the 1911...that and gently caressing it after work...sitting in the dark...watching re-runs of magnum pi and miami vice...and whos the boss...crap was that out loud ?? :D :rolleyes: :o
June 16, 2006, 12:40 AM
i always carried 1911 round in the chamber hammer down. i tried locked and cocked but found a crap load of times the safety had been put down by movement or such . the 1911 has the grip safety but a poor or worn trigger will render that useless.
so for me it was always round in chamber hammer down. that is how we all carry modern revolvers and most other autos. i never felt less than safe.
June 16, 2006, 06:39 AM
I would love to see anybody try to use an original M1911 with the old style thumb safety cocked and locked. The ones we now call "Mill Spec" are actually later aditions. The original M1911 thumb safety from John Moses Browning's time was smaller and more difficult to use than the old WWII style thumb safeties on Browning High Powers......
JMB designed the colt pocket autos for cocked and locked. The spur hammer was put on the 1911 for cavalry soldiers so they could cock or decock the weapon before or after firing. :eek:
The old spur hammers were much bigger than the ones on modern "mil spec" .45s too. Original m1911 Hammers are very much like Smith N frame target hammers.
June 19, 2006, 01:52 PM
You'll find from reading my other posts that I'm a sure-enough, wide-eyed and wet-eared newbie to the conceal-carry world. But, these last few weeks, I've been awfully impressed with the Milt Sparks IWB leather, with the Kydex clips. I got one as a graduation gift, and I've loved it.
June 19, 2006, 03:56 PM
I'm in the same dilemma. Basically it's a matter of shooting the 1911 enough to develop confidence in John Browning's design. It's safe. But you and I aren't sure.
That's why I'll probably buy a holster like this:
This particular one is a Desantis. I've never owned on but I've heard the name. I've never heard anything bad about them.
But notice that the leather strip on the holster blocks the firing pin from the hammer. With practice you can quickly learn to thumb off the snap strap of the holster, thumb off the safety on the 1911, and are ready to go.
I've had a thumb break holster, before. And when I carried my 1911 cocked and locked (which was rarely), I carried like in the picture.
I know you're looking for an IWB. But I'm sure somebody makes a thumb break like what you're after.
Best of luck.
June 27, 2006, 03:59 PM
If the hammer is down and a round is chambered, will it AD if something slams against the hammer accidentially.
No, it won't. The 1911 has an inertial firing pin. With the hammer completely down, the pin does not protrude from the breach face far enough to strike the primer. A full power hammer strike launches the firing pin forward overcoming the resistance of the spring and moving forward away from the hammer to hit the primer.
June 27, 2006, 05:44 PM
I would love to see anybody try to use an original M1911 with the old style thumb safety cocked and locked.
If you mean the ones with the small, square-shaped tab near the front of the the safety, I have carried one C&L. I do prefer it over the original BHP safety.
Neither is better than a modern designed slightly extended safety, though.
June 27, 2006, 06:09 PM
I have carried 1911 pattern sidearms for many years in a variety of positions and holsters. I always carry in condition 1 and have never had any problems.
June 27, 2006, 09:29 PM
I knew an instructor who had a beater 1911 that he'd use in class to explain the safeties, then load a mag, chamber a round, engage the thumb safety, and toss the whole works over his shoulder onto the concrete floor behind him.
Never had it fire on impact!
Try a Rocketman Low Rider holster, see http://www.rmholsters.com/
love the platform but 1911's just to darned heavy for an old man with a bad back!
June 27, 2006, 10:05 PM
I think it has been said several times, but I'll just agree that the 1911 is completely safe carried "cocked and locked" in almost any holster. If the holster is safe enough to keep the gun secure, then I believe it is safe enough for a 1911. And the 1911 is so slim, it is easy to carry even a full-sized model Inside the Pant. Good Luck.
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