View Full Version : Bushmaster vs. Colt
wacki
April 12, 2006, 05:19 PM
I saw a Bushmaster and Colt M4 style rifle at the gun club today. They were very similar but the Bushmaster was $400 cheaper. Some guy told me the Bushmasters were cheaper and better guns. I found this hard to believe. Anyone want to fill me in on the difference?
j1132s
April 12, 2006, 05:48 PM
I've never owned a Colt AR-15, but I have a couple of Bushmasters. I find it hard to believe that Bushmaster is better than Colt, but they are very nice. My Bushmasters have better fit and finish than my DPMS and RRA.
I'm not sure if I'd pay $400 more for the Colt, since generally I've seen them to have only a $200 difference.
Wildalaska
April 12, 2006, 05:54 PM
Colts have the best fit and finish and the best resale value, but you are stuck with their models (with no variation) and you have to be a careful shopper becasue many dealers play the mega premium game.
WildiownabushmasterAlaska
DPris
April 12, 2006, 06:22 PM
Some guy was half right.
UniversalFrost
April 12, 2006, 06:40 PM
I am going through a similiar dilema over a flat top m4 in either armalite, colt or bushmaster carbon15 m4 flat top. the bushmaster and armalite are about 200 cheaper than the colt, but I have no experience with the carbon15 (have shot milspec bushmaster m4 while downrange and it was very good gun). I know the armalite is a good gun, but I am interested in the carbon 15 m4 compared to a normal metal reciever. Anybody out there got one and would like to comment. If not I will go with the armalite because it is a good gun and not something "new" like the carbon15.
Lycanthrope
April 12, 2006, 09:44 PM
Colt charges prices for an AR that you could build a semi custom with.....one that is guranteed .5 MOA and has more options. Both the Colt and Bushy use 4150 steel and have chrome lined barrels. Both offer a 1 year warrantee.
Colt isn't worth $400 more....don't pay for a rollmark. Whenever they make a mistake in drilling a hole off center in the receiver.....they drill it out and call it a "large pin"....what kind of quality is that? :confused:
I've had a bunch of AR's including semi customs such as White Oak and the Clark Gator. I've also built a cheapo $515 Model 1 kit gun with pencil barrel (passed the 1100 round mark without cleaning the bolt last week....most of it Wolf ammo). Every one held under 1 MOA with good loads. The only failures I ever had were when my Olympic carbine's gas key came loose.....I staked her as they should be.
I guess what I'm getting at is that there are a lot of good AR manufacturers. The AR is a platform and the Colt is not really a different rifle from the Bushmaster. Any of them will serve you well. Choose the options that suit your needs and go shooting. Learn the platform and how to maintain it or choose a manufacturer with a lifetime warrantee (Armalite, RRA, Olympic).
Watchman
April 12, 2006, 10:18 PM
Ditto Lycanthrope...
15 years ago I bought a complete parts kit minus the lower reciever from Bushmaster. I got a cheap Bushmaster lower from a friend of mine that was gonna build one but never did. I got the kit and it came with everything but the trigger.
I called Bushmaster and was told that they were having a ard time keeping up with their contracts, and that the trigger would be several weeks coming. To me the time was unsastifactory and told them so. The clerk was very apologetic and reffered me to her boss that I had a lenthy converstaion with. As a result, he was going to send me a trigger that day, and I recieved it in 3 days. In the course of his conversation I learned that the reason that they were having a hard time keeping up with the internals was because they had been subcontracted by COLT, of all things.
Yeah...no kidding. Come to find out, Bushmnaster at that time was suppling most AR manufactures with the internals. There were only a few makers like DPMS, that were making there own.
If you think a COLT is better...think again. Its true that it will have a higher resale value...but only to the people that will pay the extra 200-300 hundred for the little prancing pony on the side of it.
DPris
April 12, 2006, 11:01 PM
That's interesting, hadn't heard that one before.
You do know that Bushmaster contracts with outside vendors for at least some of their parts?
Lycanthrope
April 12, 2006, 11:26 PM
Of course. The small parts are often contracted out and Wilson and Shaw make barrels for most manufacturers.
And....chrome lining aids in a small amount of reliability (over 500+ rounds without cleaning in my experience) but non chromed barrels group better.
DPris
April 12, 2006, 11:30 PM
Don't know who's doing them now, but Bushmaster was getting their lower receivers from two different suppliers 7 years ago.
j1132s
April 13, 2006, 01:19 AM
but I am interested in the carbon 15 m4 compared to a normal metal reciever. Anybody out there got one and would like to comment.
I had one that worked perfectly. Then I sold it.
I bought another one. It is currently at Bushmaster for service.
I think there may be a design flaw (not sure) in the feed ramp area. I never paid much attention to this design issue until now since I'm experiencing problems.
In this feed ramp area, your cartridge bullet nose goes from metal magazine lip to a plastic ramp then to a metal ramp. My rifle's plastic ramp to metal ramp interface had a small imperfection (in the plastic) and it developed into a small chip (in the plastic), which causes the bullet to jam at the interface (the bullet nose gets caught at the chip).
This is a terrible jam because when the bolt comes back and pushes on the cartridge case, the whole bullet, being stuck, get shoved into the case.
If Bushmaster can fix this issue (and make me think the fix will last), then all my future AR-15 rifles will be carbon-15 ones. I really love the light weigth of the plastic (my carbon-15 type 97 is listed as < 4lb) and the rust/dent/scratch free nature of it.
Wildalaska
April 13, 2006, 02:56 AM
Its true that it will have a higher resale value...but only to the people that will pay the extra 200-300 hundred for the little prancing pony on the side of it.
Well that happens to be most of the gun buying public :)
WildcheckthenetAlaska
Lycanthrope
April 13, 2006, 07:10 AM
Actually, more people are buying Bushmasters than Colts. Colt produces more rifles, but Bushmaster owned 10% more of the civilian market in the U.S. than Colt in 2003.
http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=3425
Rivers
April 13, 2006, 08:20 AM
Trying to decide between Colt and Bushy? Assuming that you don't want to build, do the smart thing; get a RRA. (I'd pay extra for the chrome-lined barrel.)
Tim R
April 13, 2006, 08:28 AM
I think RRA has bitten into a higher % of sales since 2000. It seems the Wylde chamber has become popular with the High Power shooters because it shoots everything well. My son in law ordered a RRA NM (DCM) which took 3 mos for it to come in as demand is up. Twist is 7 to 1. Rifle's fit and finsh are outstanding, complete with evil flash hider/bayo lug. 2 of my shooting buddies made Master shooting High Power with theirs in 2 seasons.
I don't think the Wilson barrel will shoot as good as my Nor Pac, but we'll see. I got to hold a Colt HB the other day. I think there are better rifles out there for service rifle High Power and for less money. The RRA 2 stage trigger is better to boot. If you want a Colt, they do seem to hold the value some better but they just are not worth the extra $ for the Pony.
Handy
April 13, 2006, 08:43 AM
I have never understood the reputation Bushmaster has. I had read of the tight mag wells many Bushmasters have for years, as well as the off colored receiver finishes. I would have written that off as old news had my brother's brand new Bushmaster had trouble with some of his brand new military issue mags.
Personally, I don't think ANY stock AR is so much different than the rest. All these guns are composed of mainly parts made by military contractors. For a standard A2 or M4gery I haven't been able to tell the difference between a JT kit on a Stag lower and something twice the price.
Wildalaska
April 13, 2006, 10:44 AM
Actually, more people are buying Bushmasters than Colts. Colt produces more rifles, but Bushmaster owned 10% more of the civilian market in the U.S. than Colt in 2003.
Your own table doen not demonstrate that at all
WildreaditAlaska
rellascout
April 13, 2006, 10:56 AM
WildstopconfusingpeoplewiththeirownfactsAlaska
Wildalaska
April 13, 2006, 12:01 PM
You read it too huh:)
WildatleastiamnottheonlyoneAlaska
rellascout
April 13, 2006, 12:09 PM
Yeah i saw that.
WildifIcouldgetyoutohonortheoldpostbangroupbuypriceonacolttherewouldn'tbeanissueAlsaka
:)
support_six
April 13, 2006, 12:10 PM
I only have a sample size of 1 but I won't make any sweeping generalities. My Bushmaster 20" works fine with all the new Bushmaster supplied, milsurp, and aftermarket mags I own. It's receiver is an even color, and I have had no faults with it at all. I like it better than the Colt M16, M16A1, and M16A2's I carried.
RickB
April 13, 2006, 07:06 PM
There's a great article in the latest issue of Shotgun News, as to why Colts are worth the premium. Very good information, if you agree or not.
Lycanthrope
April 13, 2006, 08:56 PM
Your own table doen not demonstrate that at all
WildreaditAlaska
The gun buying public in the U.S. buys more Bushmasters as of late. The table does not include exports.......Colt makes thousands of weapons they ship out of country. Diameco rifes in Canda, for instance....are actually all produced by Colt.
Lynoneedtobetritecanthrope
Lycanthrope
April 13, 2006, 09:13 PM
P.S. Sorry I wrapped in the civilian U.S. sales with local LEO and military.
Lyceveryonhappy?anthrope
Scorch
April 13, 2006, 11:25 PM
This is actually great info, because I have been running around doing the same comparison myself, as much as possible. I live very close to Olympic Arms, and I like their rifle, so I had almost decided to buy one. The info on barrel sources is making me think twice.
Lycanthrope
April 14, 2006, 12:44 AM
Why? Olympic makes some of the most accurate barrels in the AR market. It's one of the reasons why they don't usually hard chrome them.
Rob96
April 14, 2006, 03:38 AM
Diameco rifes in Canda, for instance....are actually all produced by Colt.
No, they are produced in Canada under the Colt license. But now all of that has changfed with the sale of Colts mil. division. If anything that holds true, it is hard to keep up with what is going on at Colt.
joshua
April 14, 2006, 03:59 AM
I have a Colt H-Bar Match and the fit is nothing to be excited about, but it does group 77 grain bullets into less than 1 moa all day with it's chromed lined 1/7 twist barrel. If you want a rock solid fit get a matched upper and lower receiver and put a nice match barrel. All other parts are just parts as long as bought from a reputable name/dealer. I'd get a nice match trigger also. As long as you don't get a Krieger or similar premium barrel you can get it done for less than 1K. josh
Handy
April 14, 2006, 12:27 PM
No, they are produced in Canada under the Colt license.Colt bought Diemaco, and calls it their Canadian division.
http://www.diemaco.com/
jimmy
April 20, 2006, 11:30 AM
At the local gunshop there's no problem deciding between Bushmaster and Colt, because 95% of the AR's it stocks are Bushmasters. The shop sells what its customers want, and most prefer to pay less for a Bushy. For better or worse, Colts are few and far between.
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