View Full Version : up side down pump shotgun?

April 7, 2006, 06:01 PM
well I had an idea, why not put the magazine tube on top of the barrel? you could load through the top and eject through the bottom. This would lower the bore, and reduce muzzle climb. And with the shells ejecting out the bottom it would be ambidextrous. and the with the tube on the top you could make it double stack since you dont have a hand there.

Any thoughts?

one problem that I just though of would be heat, from the barrel near your hand.

April 7, 2006, 06:08 PM
So what would you gain over a load from the bottom/eject from the bottom gun?

April 7, 2006, 06:39 PM
Did you even read what he said?

I know the Russians made some like this, but I don't know if any were imported. The RMB-93, if I remember right.

There is also the South African Neostead, which isn't quite double stack, but rather has two separate and distinct magazine tubes.

psycho nut
April 9, 2006, 12:35 AM
You just described the shotgun from Halo.

April 9, 2006, 12:50 AM
Did you even read what he said?

It'd be ambidextrous - just like a bottom load/bottom eject
Reduce muzzle climb - maybe, or more likely it would just invert the force, especially with the extra weight of the shells creating a downward moment.
Double stack - I'll give you that one, but we already have 9 (or more?) shot guns. How many more are we talking here?
Heat in your hand - he debunked that one himself in his edit

So yeah, I read what he wrote and saw the only real advantage being more capacity. I hoped there was something profound I had missed. I suspect if it was that advantageous, we'd have them in production.

April 9, 2006, 08:19 AM
Well, I suspect designers have looked at that idea and passed on it.

1. Top loading presents a large opening to weather/debris. You could possibly switch to a side loading gate like a lever action rifle.

2. Don't forget the action of ever present gravity...shells no longer just sit on the carrier, waiting to be lifted into position. Now they want to fall and so must be restrained...and yet be placed in the path of the moving bolt at the right time...this will require more complexity than standard designs. They would tend to fall out the bottom ejection port...more restraint required or better yet, switch to side ejection.

3. Certainly this is doable mechanically, but there's also the hidebound market to contend with....the only thing that will sway it from proven designs is...money. Pumps are very price sensitive so you'd have to make it substantially cheaper than existing designs to attract buyers. You'd have better luck in the semi-auto market.

April 9, 2006, 08:39 AM
The Russians have had an upside down shotgun (RMB-93 ) for sometime now. Also the Neostead is currently in limited production in South Africa by Truvelo Armory.

There are several advantages to the design concept. I have been working some with Mr. Stead, one of the Neostead designers, to bring his gun to the states. There are a couple of military specific requirements that it would be ideal for. The trouble is my current contractor position is to closely related to requirements of the XM-26 for me to effectively work on the project without conflect of interest problems.

My contract position is over in August and I hope to return full time to the Neostead project then.

For that I will need a US production partner. The comments about pricing are right on, I doubt that you will ever see this has a commercial gun in the US.


April 9, 2006, 12:03 PM
That thing's ugly. A function over form situation I geuss.:cool:

April 9, 2006, 10:15 PM
Why not just get a bps?

April 10, 2006, 05:37 PM
Well, I'd think that a toploader would be faster to load, and you could keep it on target while you load shells more easily. Other than that, I don't really know why it would be that great.

I say you should just take a mossberg 500 to the skeet range and shoot it upside down...........It's actually pretty fun.;)

April 11, 2006, 06:38 PM
A strange concept indeed , but I think the comrades did it right with this one.



September 29, 2017, 07:16 PM
the pump forward should work great in not jerking the barrel about so much vs a regular pump

I have tried a rgerman rifle pumpforward system the krieghoff semprio and that was marvellous

October 1, 2017, 10:17 AM
you guys are all late. winchester developed one back in the mid 50's. it was recently built under a different name here in usa. cant remember the name of it.....but it didnt last. its OOB now.
history of winchester, pg 238.

October 1, 2017, 10:35 AM
Do a search for upside down Remington 11 or upside down A-5. Lots of video out there on a functional auto shotgun build on a flipped Remington 11 with a german machine
gun grip and fire controls.

October 1, 2017, 11:26 AM
I see one flaw in a top loading shotgun magazine. If you load shells from the top and eject from the bottom, you will also load more dirt, twigs, and debris into the action.

It won't take long to put the gun out of action.

October 1, 2017, 12:30 PM
Lots of reasons where the speed of top load is beneficial. It might catch on eventually in the Practical/Tactical/3Gun competitions. If it had happened sooner then it might have bled over into breaching for the departments that still use shotguns, which might be like two by the time it is viable. With frangible ammo, 9mm PCCs will take over breaching operations before that happens, so that is one reason it won't go far in LE.

Never seen folks trying to load dirt, twigs and debris in a shotgun. When would that happen other that in a wooded hunting scenario? :)

October 1, 2017, 02:56 PM
Then set your top loader beside a BPS and give it the Browning test.
That is a bucket of sand poured over both guns and see which one will operate after that.

October 1, 2017, 05:46 PM
anyone like a butler xx12?

October 1, 2017, 06:33 PM
Pouring a bucket of sand over a shotgun is just plain stupid...irrelevance gets you nowhere. :)

October 1, 2017, 06:51 PM
Maybe so but that's what John Browning did with the 1911 and to 30 caliber machinegun
during testing. Both passed with flying color's that was over 100 years ago. I doubt that some of todays so called tactical guns can pass that test!

October 1, 2017, 09:28 PM
where did bender go? everyones piling in and steering the topic off course.

October 1, 2017, 09:56 PM
Well it's been 11 years, so the possibilities are endless.

October 2, 2017, 07:57 AM
The zombies are not coming, they are right here.

October 2, 2017, 09:07 AM
wow, i just noticed that!

October 2, 2017, 03:44 PM

I was thinking the same thing! It also has dual internal magazine tubes like the Kel Tec KSG and is chambered in 8 gauge 3.5" magnum. :D

October 2, 2017, 08:11 PM
The UTS-15 bullpup shotgun loads through the top.
It has two magazine tubes and loads through hatches on the top-rear.

October 4, 2017, 01:20 PM
Dang - I just got suckered into this necro-thread.