PDA

View Full Version : Suppose you are being shot at in a parking lot


Doug.38PR
March 10, 2006, 10:59 PM
Suppose you are being shot at in a parking lot or near your car parked somewhere. The shooter is from quite a distance (say 50-75 yards away). What is the most ideal part of the car to take cover behind?

The door? (I understand high powered rifles and even .357 magnums can penetrate doors)

The Engine bock?

The truck?

rmagill
March 10, 2006, 11:07 PM
Engine block. It provides the most amount of mettle to stop a bullet, and is convieniently above/near the front tire.

Capt. Charlie
March 10, 2006, 11:36 PM
See the April issue of S.W.A.T. ;) .

Blackwater OPS
March 11, 2006, 01:08 AM
Engine block. It provides the most amount of mettle to stop a bullet, and is convieniently above/near the front tire.
That's how I was trained.

mete
March 11, 2006, 05:49 AM
To penetrate two wheels and an engine takes more than most BGs usually carry !!No handgun will do it . A 50 BMG might.:rolleyes:

threegun
March 11, 2006, 05:52 AM
Get down and go the other way. If the shooter advances faster than you can retreat, shoot at his feet from under the vehicle. When he falls put some more into him.

atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 10:39 PM
Remember to move in a zig zag pattern when you are out from behind cover.

Hayley
March 15, 2006, 11:26 PM
"Remember to move in a zig zag pattern" Atl: did you see the original _The In Laws_ movie? --sorry to digress, but I love that scene.

atlctyslkr
March 15, 2006, 11:41 PM
Yes I have seen it. Just a little dry humor.

That only works if there is one shooter. Doug failed to mention multiple shooters from multiple angles in this fictional parking lot we're talking about. What if you're not the original target but become one because you're in the wrong place at the wrong time?

ChrisJ
March 16, 2006, 09:03 AM
If I was near my vehicle I would take cover behind the steering wheel and get heck out of Dodge, at 50 yards if he didn't hit you with the first shot he probably won't hit you doing 80 mph in the opposite direction.

If I am not near my vehicle I would make mad dashes from cover to cover (preferably large engine blocks) in the opposite direction and as soon as possible dial 911 on my cell phone. If I was armed I would probably not take the time to return fire unless actively pursued.

That is assuming I am alone, add a wife, 4 year old, and a 6 month old strapped in a baby stroller and it opens a whole new can of worms.

- Chris

tjhands
March 16, 2006, 09:20 AM
Hi, ChrisJ and welcome to TFL! :)

Good first post, by the way. 50 to 75 yards is a loooong way for a handgun. Most experienced shooters would have hard time getting a good shot in at that distance under combat stress with a handgun.
I'm with you....get in the car and floor it. :)

Edited to add: A rifle would change my mind, though. I guess taking cover behind the front wheel would be best. As someone else said, with two metal wheels and an engine to go through, nothing short of mortar fire is going to get through to you. If he starts closing the distance, return fire when he moves closer and hope that that disuades him. Of course the whole scenario is rather unlikely, but it's fun to play along.

MosinNOUGAT
April 26, 2017, 05:52 PM
I know this thread is very old, but I just wanted to say something. Yes, the engine block is what you should hide behind. It's a big block of steel that will stop most pistol and even rifle bullets! The doors are just basically sheet metal that won't stop anything (probably a .22). So yes, hide behind the engine.

shootbrownelk
April 26, 2017, 06:04 PM
Actually, nowadays the engines are usually aluminum in cars from what I've seen. Not much in the way of protection, but better than nothing I suppose.

FTG-05
April 26, 2017, 08:50 PM
You reopened a +11 year old thread and virtually the first words out of your mouth are wrong?

Car engines aren't made out of steel; they're either cast iron or, like the poster above said, aluminum. Why did you even bother?

2123
April 26, 2017, 09:00 PM
I'd take cover behind someone else's car, not mine.

I don't want it getting all shot up.

TXAZ
April 26, 2017, 09:54 PM
Shootbrownelk noted:

Actually, nowadays the engines are usually aluminum in cars from what I've seen. Not much in the way of protection, but better than nothing I suppose.
I would try to stay low behind the engine block. As to first hand experience, when I first fired my Barrett last year, we had a couple junk cars to shoot at.

An iron block, when hit by a .50 BMG ball round, will have a very nice hole in the entry side. Depending what it hits inside the engine, and there is a lot of steel inside, the bullet will be mangled pretty good and loose a lot of energy and shape. None of the rounds we shot went thru both sides. (Oil pan shots don't count :). )

Switching to APIT, if the round avoided the crank and other very solid structures, you can have a small window on both sides.

The aluminum block was a bit easier to get through with APIT, but not guaranteed.
I'll try to go back and find some pics.
Given nothing but an aluminum block, take it.

Very few bad guys are going to have a .50 BMG much less shoot at such a close range with one.

MosinNOUGAT
April 26, 2017, 10:59 PM
Car engines aren't made out of steel; they're either cast iron or, like the poster above said, aluminum. Why did you even bother?

Well I'm sorry that I'm not a metallurgist, but it's still a heavy piece of metal that will stop a lot of bullets, and I reopened it because I was looking around and found it. Also, if anyone is looking for answers to a question like this, they won't have to start a new thread. They can just read this. . .

FYI some parts of car engines are steel, too

Best,

MosinNOUGAT

MosinNOUGAT
April 26, 2017, 11:01 PM
As to first hand experience, when I first fired my Barrett last year, we had a couple junk cars to shoot at.


Wish I could own one. . .of course CA is the ONE place I am. . .

Cheapshooter
April 27, 2017, 12:02 AM
What ever part I'm behind as the car moves rapidly away!!! @ 75 yards I'm not sticking around to play Rambo!!!

lefteye
April 27, 2017, 12:13 AM
Actually, nowadays the engines are usually aluminum in cars from what I've seen. Not much in the way of protection, but better than nothing I suppose.

:eek: Before (and after) penetrating an aluminum block engine a bullet must penetrate, at least, some other parts of an automobile, e.g., fenders, grill, radiator, wheels, tires, firewall, exhaust manifold. Every obstacle a bullet penetrates will affect the path of the bullet and the shape and condition of the bullet. With all due respect, your post makes no sense!

TXAZ
April 27, 2017, 05:49 AM
MosinNougat
Drop me a PM if you are headed towards the Dallas area and you and Boomer can go at it with ball and APIT rounds and do your own testing.

TXAZ
April 27, 2017, 06:02 AM
To the note above on doors and parts, one of the target cars hav been peppered with bird and 00 shot, 223, 30 cal and BMG, bud didn't always know the distance involved.

The birdshot left nice dents w/o penetrations and a few times when close enough a 3/4" hole in the outer sheet metal. The 00 buck appeared to always go through the outer sheet metal.

.223 did better and punched thru the sheet metal but we didn't see many .223 "exit wounds" on the other side.

The .308 we were shooting easily went in and out both sides if heavy components were avoided. 1 went through the radiator, firewall, a front and back seat inside, and through the rear of the closed trunk.

The .50 APIT rounds went through everything that didn't take 2 arms to lift and made a heck of a dent in the heavy items, but only a few rounds went through both sides of the engine.

Here's a pic of 1 side of the Volvo, you can get an idea of what bounced and what didn't looking at the lower right side of the pic:

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/azmb/Volvo_zpss8btyhbm.png

As such, "Boomer" suggests staying behind the engine regardless of the block being iron or aluminum.

zincwarrior
April 27, 2017, 06:18 AM
Suppose you are being shot at in a parking lot or near your car parked somewhere. The shooter is from quite a distance (say 50-75 yards away). What is the most ideal part of the car to take cover behind?

You clearly chose the wrong parking lot.

armoredman
April 27, 2017, 06:18 AM
The movie Deadly Weapons did a lot of "car shooting" up to and including 50BMG, even though it's very old, still relevant. A aluminum block is still very liable to stop all handgun rounds and I would hazard a guess most commonly carried rifle rounds. I certainly don't want to be the test dummy for that one, that's for certain! Our training is still to shelter behind the engine as it offers the most resistance.

TXAZ
April 27, 2017, 06:22 AM
Good point Armoredman, any cover is better than no cover. Even the .50 Raufoss Mk 211 rounds (AP explosive) have limitations, 'up to 2' of steel.

A J
April 27, 2017, 09:43 AM
Another option: If you're 50-75 meters away, why not just keep running? I'm thinking it would be very difficult to hit an adrenalin-filled, moving target zig zagging around parked cars.

The few times I stumbled upon wasp nests, I was AMAZED at how fast I could sprint, easily outpacing the best Olympic runner. :)

Lohman446
April 27, 2017, 09:48 AM
Being shot at and missed at that range implies you were not the primary target or the person shooting is not that good of a shot. You know the old theory on hunting: one shot = one deer, two shots = maybe one deer, three shots = no deer.

This idea of running does make some sense to me. That being said if my wife and children are with me that entire plan changes and running I am doing is to close distance if there is any thought we are or will be on the target list.

Glenn E. Meyer
April 27, 2017, 09:56 AM
Just a commment, it is usually frowned upon to revive necro threads.

We prefer starting a new one with new information.

Rangerrich99
April 27, 2017, 04:28 PM
A few facts:

70% of all new cars sold in the U.S. in the last five years come with cast aluminum engine blocks.

The most popular (new) passenger car sold in America is the Toyota Corolla. With an aluminum block.

The Corolla engine block weighs in at 225 lbs. dry.

None of the most common handgun rounds (380 auto, 9mm, 38 spl, .357 mag, .40 S&W, 10 mm, .44 mag, .45 ACP) are going through that block.

Shooting through an aluminum wheel on the other hand, isn't much of a trick, apparently.

Carry on.

MosinNOUGAT
April 27, 2017, 05:57 PM
Drop me a PM if you are headed towards the Dallas area and you and Boomer can go at it with ball and APIT rounds and do your own testing.

Ha, maybe I will:D

MosinNOUGAT
April 27, 2017, 06:01 PM
Just a commment, it is usually frowned upon to revive necro threads.

Sorry. . .

I probably won't do this again anyways

Mobuck
April 27, 2017, 07:49 PM
"If I was near my vehicle I would take cover behind"

SOMEONE ELSE'S CAR!!!!!!!

No need to have your own ride shot up and ruin your change to get away.

James K
April 27, 2017, 10:40 PM
Suppose someone is shooting at me from 275.3634 yards (measured with a super accurate laser) and a deflection of 23.87 degrees at 8:07:13 PM on April 14, in Mobile, AL. The shooter is using a .30-'06 Remington 700 with a 24" barrel and a Super X factory load with a 150 grain bullet. Those are facts that I have carefully measured while dodging bullets.

The question I have is how often folks fall for nonsense like that, really believing that someone can do detailed planning to handle every possible situation, no matter how absurd or unlikely.

(If you are being shot at, you take cover under or behind anything that will stop a bullet or even that will conceal you from the shooter; you don't run around measuring engine blocks or doing a material analysis on car parts.)

Jim

Danoobie
April 27, 2017, 11:24 PM
I would depart the parking lot as quickly as is safely possible.
Then I would go home, and work on improving my people
skills...;)