View Full Version : Gesichert

February 23, 2006, 02:11 PM
I have a firearm turned in for testfire for a system here at our lab. I cannot locate it in our reference materials. I think this is due to my lack of knowledge of where to start. There is only only word on this weapon and it's under the thumb safety "Gesichert". It looks like the old German pistols from around WWII. I'm not sure what round it chambers (which is the main problem). It has numerous pieces of the serial # stamped on different parts the way you would see a lot on the Russian pistols/rifles. Perhaps if I had an idea what Gesichert was/meant??


February 23, 2006, 02:22 PM
Is it likely the gun is a Luger? It's been quite a while since I saw one. It does look right but I think the previousl Lugers I have seen have more writing on them.

February 23, 2006, 03:00 PM
Gesichert is German for "secure" or "safe" and is commonly found on P08 Lugers. I can't recall seeing this marking on any other German pistol.


Harley Nolden
February 23, 2006, 03:31 PM


Harley Nolden
February 24, 2006, 04:27 AM
Caliber, If Po8 Luger would probably be 9mm Parabellum.


February 24, 2006, 07:31 AM
Perfect, that is the exact firearm!


Jim Watson
February 24, 2006, 08:18 AM
Gee, HM, I don't know what kind of lab you run, but if it does much firearms work, reference materials that do not cover the Luger are sadly lacking. Try for a grant and buy some books.

I realize that personal experience with Lugers and many other old guns is dropping way off due to most of them retreating into collections and trading among speculators at ever-increasing prices. There was a thread on one board where people were uncertain of the model Winchester pictured and described as chambered in .32-20, for example.

James K
February 25, 2006, 08:42 PM
It should have other markings, though probably not words as such. It might have a date, and a code marking on the receiver ring, maybe a code stamp or trademark on the toggle. Also, note that Lugers were made in two calibers, one being the now common "9mm Luger" and the other the "7.65mm Luger" or ".30 Luger" with a necked down case. The latter should not be confused with the 7.65mm Browning, which we call the .32 ACP.

When recording military Luger serial numbers, make sure to record the year of manufacture, the manufacturer, and the letter suffix below the serial number on the front of the grip frame. The reason is that serial numbers often started over each year, each maker had his own series, and the letter suffix is part of the number.

So all three elements are necessary for a positive identification; any one or even any two will not uniquely identify the pistol. If yours is a police lab, failing to do this could let a smart defense attorney wrap you up and hang you out to dry.