View Full Version : weapons retention

January 16, 2006, 12:50 PM
Yesterday I went on an inmate transport to the local hospitals emergancy room. The other officer was a 23yr old black girl with 7months in the department. As I watched the inmate, she went to the restroom. Moments later she returns with a trooper. Apparently she was walking by a croud of people with her sidearm fully exposed, her hand by her face. The trooper reported the incident to my shift commander. When I got back he went up MY!! a##. Saying that I was the senior officer and I should have been supervising her. I ain't no LT. and wasn't there at the time.
This underscores my long time complaint, that I've put in writting several times, that the ODR+C should spend considerable time teaching weapons retention. our training is about 20 minutes long. Dismal training that will one day come back to bite them. The department is run by liberals and we spend 5 times more time learning PC crap as usefull info. Yeah This was a RANT

January 16, 2006, 06:39 PM
Garry, . . . while not an LEO, I can still empathise with you on being the fall guy for the junior's mistakes. Many times: been there, done that, didn't get no tee shirt either.

I've always tried to just let the big guy have his/her rant/rave, etc. then quietly gone on about my work, . . . and at some discreet time (after I did some chilling), . . . make sure that junior knows he/she got me in dutch. I have never done it in an accusatory manner, . . . more informative, . . . and it has almost always been received well, . . . to the point that the offensive behavior was stopped.

If this gal is your partner, . . . sooner would be probably better than later.

May God bless,

January 16, 2006, 11:13 PM
I spoke to my warden today about the incident. I got the usual excusses that our centeral office dictates the training and that there are only 40hrs a year of training. yada yada yada.
We spend 24hrs of our training time learning about social programs, medical issues and the like. Why do I need to know that certin meds cause reactions and heat problems when I'm not allowed to know who takes them? The logic escapes me. The problem lays in the fact that our upper ranks are filled with social worker types. They all have their pet programs. And custody is looked on like the poor ignorant step child. Custody people do not rise above a certin rank unless they go into some social work.
My point is, and has always been, that the most critical and dangerous part of my job has to do with force issues and weapons. I guess what has to happen is that someone actually gets control of a weapon and shoots someone. Then the victims will sue the state for millions, then the state will wake up, temporarily. Of course the whole thing will fall first on the stupid custody officers.
I am actually considered wierd because I know my weapons, I'm well read and I train for the worst. What they don't realize is the fact that I've been there (as I've posted on other threads) and I know what lack of awarness and preperation can lead to. But, what the hell, let them learn the hard way.

Dean C
January 16, 2006, 11:26 PM
Both previous posts were very good and well understood rants.
I hear ya'.

January 17, 2006, 07:19 AM
Garryc, Apparently there is something I do not understand here. I can't figure out why your supervisor was upset in the first place. LEO's walk past groups of people with their weapons fully exposed all of the time, It's a daily, constant occurrance for Police Officers. Why was this instance such a big deal that this Supervisor felt justified in reprimanding you?

January 17, 2006, 08:47 AM
What was the big deal that got your sup. all in a tizy?

January 17, 2006, 10:15 PM
female officer with an accessable gun. this reminds me of that brian nichols guy in Atlanta who got a female officer's gun and shot a judge and several others and escaped from the courthouse last march. whats the common link, underpowered/undertrained female officers. nothing against the ladies, but they should meet the same standards. I belive in law enFORCEment, that means more training and higher phisical standards. it is a shame how low the standards are in some agencies.

January 17, 2006, 10:24 PM
I think you’re jumping to a conclusion in order to justify a preconceived notion (a notion I happen to agree with BTW). None of the information provided gives any inclination that this female officer was less physically capable than her male counterparts. We don’t even know the department she works for. I personally know of several LE agencies/departments/etc that do require their women to perform at the same physical standard as their men (without lowering their standards for the men). Which is exactly the way it should be. What you said about this woman might be completely true, but only because you guessed right. Don't sell this girl short until you know you should...

I’m still trying to figure out what this officer did that was so wrong. Can you give us some more detail?

January 17, 2006, 11:24 PM
Apparently the trooper said that she did not seem consciously aware of the fact she was armed in a crowded place. He said that the butt of the weapon was slanted at a 45 degree angle to the side, toward the crowd in close proximity. He said that when she went by the crowd in the waiting area her hand was by her face leaving the sidearm fully exposed. He said the thumb break was open.
Two factors are her fault. Not having her hand near the weapon while in close proximity to strangers. Not paying attention to the people seated in the waiting area, awareness.
The weapon slanted in a 45 degree angle to the crowd is the states fault for supplying worn out equipment. The holsters we are issued are on a drop piece that is suppose to allow for wearing a coat. many are so worn that the weapon dangles in various positions. Many snaps are so worn they open on there own. And get this, we use single retention holsters.
I went to the ready armory with my LT. today and examined the weapon and holster. One rivet on the holster hanger was broken allowing the holster to hang sideways. It has now been removed from service. The issuing LT. should have caught that as should have the receiving officer.
This just shows where the priorities are in our liberal run correctional system. poor equipment and lack of training prevail.
Two years ago I was qualifying, I went through two MD. 64 s+w 38's. I was being told I was doing roll-bys. yet there were firing pin hits on the rims of the cartridges. I was then told I was shooting too fast. Now you guys tell me, how could I possibly out run a s+w action? The hammer falling out of battery means a screwed up gun. And there are many.

I find the fact that it was a female irrelevant. I work with many females that are pros in the field. This particular woman is actually learning well. This is a tough job and working with 100% criminals 100% of the time, and doing it well takes a certain type of person. One officer on 122 inmates isn’t easy.
Also, possibly, a relevant factor might be a bias against corrections, I've run into that around cops many times. Then again I've seen cops come into corrections and find they can't handle it, a unique environment to say the least.