Opinions on Dragunov rifle ?

[Radiki]

I don't know much about this rifle but I see the name in a lot of places, unfortunantly the information associated with it seems vague. I have been finding them for all sorts of different prices but is that only because of their conditions or were there different versions?.\ What are everyones opinions on it? Any one own one? Is it a purpose built rifle or simply a variant of the AK with a different stock? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/194.jpg

[Matt Sutton]

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn18-e.htm

This site gives a little history and pictures of a few of the variants.

[Casp_A]

The real SVD is a pretty decent purpose-built gun that's quite a bit different from an AK. The gun you posted a picture of is not a Drag' though, it's a fancy looking Romanian AK variant which has been reported as okay but not as good as the real thing. In any case, I don't have any hands on experience with either of them so I can't tell you much more than that. Sorry.

[overlordofwar]

first, the above mentioned site is a good place to look up info for firearms, i have it bookmarked on my browser.

second the dragunov is and isn't an ak with a differnt stock. it uses a very similar action (that is a bit more fine tuned) to the ak, but it's usualy chambered for a 7.62 x 54 mm round. and if i remember correctly it is only semi auto. although i don't own one i have heard good things about them and the ammo they use.

the price differnces could be from preban/postban dates of manufacture, their condition, or the country of origin. they are made by almost every country that makes ak varaints.

read up on them a bit more and see what you find out.

[gfen]

The Russian SVD and Chinese NDM86 are the real deal, and they're priced accordingly. The SVDs, if I recall correctly, go for $4000 on up, the NDMs were being sold over the summer by CDNN for $1800.

The Russian Tigr is the sporter version of the SVD. No longer imported, but last spring I saw a few people selling them used for $1200 or so.

The Romanian PSL or Romak 3 is a lookalike built on an RPK (I think) receiver. Its priced far more reasonably, but its not a SVD. They should run you from $650 to $800.

Even the finest SVDs aren't as accurate as a real sniper's weapon, they're meant for the designated marksman in the group, able to hit mansized targets far beyond the range of the AK47, but not exactly meant for ultra-preciscion work.

The SVD was built to shoot 7.62x54R, although there's NDM-86's in .308. There was also at least one importer bringing in .308 Romak 3 rifles, but they evidently suffered from cheap plastic mags.

You can also dress up your SKS or AK47 with a dragunov stock if you just wanna make it look fancypants.

[Shooter 973]

I had a little experience with a battle field pick-up Draganov over 30 yrs. ago. I was pretty under whelmed with it. We shot all the ammo we had for it and it wouldn't group smaller than about 4 inches at the best. It did go bang every time but wasn't very accurate for a dedicated sniper rifle. Had the Russian scope on it that seemed to be kinda odd to American tastes.

[BigG]

Here's an article I wrote on mine a couple years ago. Dragunov (http://www.epinions.com/otdr-review-4FA4-18071A51-3986F210-prod2)

[Chindo18Z]

Radiki: +1 on the SVD. As noted by previous posters, the SVD (and Romanian FPK) are not "AK" clones (just use a somewhat similar action and control layout).

I've fired Russian & Polish military issue SVDs as well as the Romanian FPK series. As noted, these are combat weapons and properly fill the designated marksman niche vice being dedicated long range sniper rifles.

Advantages are:

1) fires a full power .30 cal round (7.62 x 54 Soviet Rimmed) which provides equivalent or better ballistic performance than 7.62 NATO or .30-06.

2) routine practical accuracy out to 600 meters but a properly zeroed and scoped weapon can hit out to 800 if the shooter does his job. I would expect most used specimens to be around 1 MOA capable. If you are comfortable shooting an AR series accurately past 300 meters, you will enjoy the accuracy this weapon can provide.

3) extremely robust and reliable; functions well in all sorts of extreme field environments. Easy to maintain in field; "Ivan-proof".

4) semi-auto allows for fast follow-up or repeat shots. Firer can lay down semi-auto suppressive fire or engage rapidly at closer ranges.

5) With legal magazine (5 rd), the weapon makes a fine hunting rifle. Excellent with iron sights out to...say 300-350 meters. Easy carry in the field...not too heavy but heavy enough.

6) FPK is about half the cost of a Springfield M1A and a bit better accuracy than a lot of FAL clones. A greatly under-estimated value for the money.

7) an awful lot of scope & semi-auto capability/flexibility for around $800

8) lots of available mil-surplus scopes and night vision devices will mate to the integral mil-standard russian rail; as little or as much money as you want to spend. Adapters are available to mount commercial scopes as well. Most FPKs/SVDs come with the old PSO-1 scope (which takes some getting use to) but which has a battery powere illuminated reticle. Good feature for first/last light shots or for super-imposing reticle over darkly shadowed targets.

Downside:

1) in no way, shape, or form is this a gun for CQB

2) ditto for vehicular carry due to length

3. not great for still hunting in close-in brush or forest vegetation (not that it can't do the job; it's just not a handy carbine)

4) if absolute accuracy is your goal, lots of bolt guns will shoot tighter groups.

5) AK fashion-fu as far as finish and furniture. If you love utilitarian mil-finish, you will love this rifle. If you like to drool over polished wood grain and bluing...get something else.

Unless you are collecting Russian weapons, I'd buy the FPK and spend the savings on scope upgrade or ammo/range time. Good luck.

[Davis]

The Romanian PSL (not FPK, that is a US term), while it isn't a Dragunov, it is the exact same class of rifle (and is as much a sniper's rifle as the Dragunov, even if it is 1/4 the price) as the SVD or NDM. Like the Yugo M76, it uses the AK style long-stroke piston attached to the carrier. The PSL is the current Designated Marksman rifle of the Romanian army and in the field is generally as accurate and capable of the SVD. It isn't a knock off, as the Romanians were not trying to sell them commerically when they designed them. They went the Yugoslavian route and designed their own rifle. Odd, isn't it, that the Yugo's don't get slammed like the PSL's even though they are basically the same concept. It is just another rifle like the Romak III's. Oh, that's right, the Yugo m76's are just as expensive as the SVD's and like red making everything go faster, more money makes everything better. The Chinese NDM's that were $1,600 were .308 versions and are not really any more legitimate than the Tigr's. Chinese DNM's in 7.62x54R cost $2,400 or so. Real deal SVD's are expensive because they are very rare. Sure, they cost more to make than the PSL, but in reality they should be no more expensive than an M1a.

SVD owners hate to hear it, but the PSL is really basically just as good as the SVD. Neither have great accuracy, but accuracy is generally on par. The rifles imported right now, the Romaks, need some polishing to get them to Romanian military standards, but otherwise they really are just as good. I once owned two Romaks but their accuracy was not good enough to justify keeping. However, they are cool rifles in their own right.

If you want one, the price is decent for a comblock DM rifle that does the same thing as an SVD. Keep in mind that the Savage you can get at Walmart will be much more accurate.

Davis

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Lots of good posts, but I have to say that if you were only able to get about 4 MOA out of a real SVD, you either had a banged up gun, or possibly there were shooter problems.

Soviet theory on designated marksmen/snipers is quite different than the US theory of lone shooter making 800+ meter shots against single high priority targets. The Soviets used designated marksman at the squad level to make shots between 300 (which is the generallly accepted max range or infantry small arms normally) and 600 meters against targets to support infantry. It's a good system mixed with troops with GPMG's and it works so well that it is becoming more and more common for US troops to be doing it right now in Iraq and Afganistan.

[Davis]

One problem with all of them is the lack of sniper's ammo in the states. If decent ammo (I can't recall the designation) were available, they would all shoot better than they do. It would easily be possible to make the SVD/NDM/PSL sub 2 MOA with the right ammo. That said, I had a Romak that would do 2 MOA all day long with Sellier and Bellot ammo. Unfortunately, I had some primer problems with S&B, but accuracy was good.

Davis

[BigG]

I hate to say this but the Savage you buy down at Wal-Mart is probably not going to be more accurate than a Russky Dragunov, and in any case I think you will need a scope because there is no sighting system on the Savage. Just wanted to inject a little gravity into the discussion.

The standard for accuracy is far tighter than 4 MOA. I don't know where
Davis got that? Mine will shoot better than 1 MOA with ball ammo. If you are a poor shot it will shoot as well as you do.

They cost a lot but I would not trade mine for an M1A. In fact, I had both and sold the M1A because it was clunky in comparison. The Dragunov was designed for a scope and comes with one. You can detach it, replace it and you are still zeroed.

They are not for everybody but the above post sure sounded like sour grapes.

[KaceCoyote]

ROMAK-3 is my next longgun. Accurate enough to take an animal at range, powerful enough for moose if I feel so inclined. Its still tough enough to rattle around in the back of a truck, and ask for more. One note nobody mentioned earlier.

With the AK/SVD scope mount system, you could actually zero 2-3 different optics..and swap between them in seconds. You could have a red-dot for close up hog hunting, a low power scope for plinking and a high power variable objective, lighted recticle scope for reaching out and touching stuff.

[Silent Trigger]

I've always liked the SVD Dragunov and they are indeed (the Russian ones), awesome, however, in contrast to what some are saying I did not find any amongst the 4 ROMAK IIIs I shot to be worth a damn. Not that they were horrible but not what I had experienced with this one guy's tricked out SVD. I'd much rather convert an SKS to SKS-SRC status with an optional Dragunov-esque stock fitted with the PC Martel Shockwave Brake

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8303/skssrc4fl.png (http://www.rifletech.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl/page=ultimatesks.html)

and get the claimed and proven Sub 1MOA out of it (by assistance of the SWB on the muzzle, not the stock... :D ) than to spend the mad amounts of $BLING needed for a true Russian SVD. I won't go near a ROMAK at all, anymore, though like above in this thread I have met more than a few that say with some tricking out (like with an SKS) you can be a GOD from a distance so to speak. I however, have yet to find one that grants me the "Sniper Divine" status I love. But a lot of my hatred for the ROMAK III began with the fact a lot of us Commie Gun Collectors were orginally shysted, or at least tried to be suckered into buying one as an "Romanian Dragunov" rather than call it by it's official designation and more. The price is what threw me and I held back on my initial purchase and did some more research. After getting my hands on both the true Russian one and the Romanian ones, I could see where the money saved went. Even after my own SRC version of the SKS with a different type of Synthetic Stock versus the Dragunov styled one pictured above, and several other rifles, in this catergory I'd still rather have me a...

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/8599/m9130src0rr.jpg
M91/30 "SRC" with the wooden stock exchanged for a synthetic one. It's old and doesn't have the quick follow up of the semi-autos, and hella cheap these days but it's reliable and gets the job done. Right now I've got a hard on for the Enfield No.4 MK 1 but everytime I get my hands one a M91/30 I think "Damn, got what I need right here." To each their own I guess, but if you're going to pay up the wazoo for a rifle unless you're just a fan of the Russian stuff (and there's nothing wrong with that) you'd be better off getting yourself a customized M1A (M21-SWS) for the price an actual "Russian" SVD is going to cost you.

[Cpl Punishment]

Opinion on REAL Dragunovs (to include the Tigr commercial versions)?
Damn nice rifles, way overpriced. They're no more accurate than a good M1A, but cost 2-3x what a good M1A does (4x what a baseline M1A goes for). However, if they could be imported again, the price could go drastically down, and then they'd be well worth it.

The Romanian PSL is a beefed-up Ak to handle the 7.62x54R because the Romanians can't see paying what the Russian charge even client states for Drags. Not as accurate as a proper Drag, but not really a dog either. I happen to really like them.

When people have them, the REAL Mosin Nagant sniper rifles are very accurate and run about the same price as a PSL. If you want accuracy for relatively cheap, this is a good way to go.

[gfen]

What you pay for with the SVD clones isn't accuracy, its straight up badassitude.

I admit, I'm almost willing to buy into it. Except, when I had the spare $700 to drop there were none available, but there's not a cooler looking weapon around if you want something "menancing."

Sure, your Nagant may shoot better, and it may appeal to an antique buff better, but face it.. Its not the same sort appeal that the PSL is gonna bring to the party.

[Silent Trigger]

What you pay for with the SVD clones isn't accuracy, its straight up badassitude.

I admit, I'm almost willing to buy into it. Except, when I had the spare $700 to drop there were none available, but there's not a cooler looking weapon around if you want something "menancing."

Sure, your Nagant may shoot better, and it may appeal to an antique buff better, but face it.. Its not the same sort appeal that the PSL is gonna bring to the party.

No argument there (bold) but an accurized M91/30 w. 5 in the internal box magazine is really all you need. And if something shoots better why go with something just because it looks cooler? Though no doubt, if I ever come across a Russian SVD Dragunov at a reasonable price (no more than $900) I'd pick one up in a heartbeat, but not for the $1,855 - $2,000 price range I normally see them at.