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View Full Version : Sig Pro, CZ-75, BHP or XD 9mm?


LH2
September 20, 2005, 12:17 AM
I'm shopping for a bit of an all-arounder. Mostly will get plenty of range time target shooting, just challenging myself and working on groups and technique. But the gun will also be my home defense and car gun.

The gun may see occasional carry, but more than likely I'd get something smaller/lighter if I was going to carry often.

Haven't ruled out a nice S&W or Ruger .357 revolver - but that aside I really like the feel of the Sig Pro, Browning Hi-Power, CZ-75, and XD.

The Sig, BHP and CZ are definitly heavier than the XD, but this is no big deal since I'm probably not carrying anyway. All are very pointable and comfortable. The finish seems nicer on the Sig, BHP & CZ too. I find it hard to get excited about the XD although I'm sure it's a great gun for the money.

The CZ's I've tried usually have a gritty trigger, and the Sig Pros seem to stack up in DA. BHP is kindof a different beast - the slide seems hardest to rack, and the trigger seems rough and heavy. I've heard Hi-Power triggers often are lousy and need some work, is this true? Or will it come around with use? The XD triggers seem to be great on the ones I've handled.

The only one of the group that I've fired is the BHP. I fired a friends years ago and fell in love with the pistol.

Any strong votes one way or another? Thanks! :)

aaronrkelly
September 20, 2005, 12:28 AM
BHP - my favorite......

srfl
September 20, 2005, 12:47 AM
Another vote for the BHP....I hear that the CZ-75 is really nice.....the latest iteration of the sig pro is very interesting (it has the universal light rail).

kgpcr
September 20, 2005, 01:06 AM
XD all the way. I like my sigpro its just not as accurate as my XD's.

CraZkid
September 20, 2005, 01:15 AM
My vote goes to CZ. The trigger on the CZ realy smooths with time. I am still trying to get used to my XD, I do not know what it is but I can not shoot that gun as well as others.

utaherrn
September 20, 2005, 01:59 AM
#1 BHP
#2 CZ
#3 XD
#4 Sig

and the advise is worth what you paid for it. :D

Wildalaska
September 20, 2005, 02:06 AM
BHP
BHP
BHP


Its even good for carry

WildlovesbhpsAlaska

donkee
September 20, 2005, 05:51 AM
Cz......

DT Guy
September 20, 2005, 05:57 AM
CZ, especially the SA version. It actually unseated the BHP as my favorite 9MM, as it's accurate, easy to shoot, comfortable and doesn't even make me bleed. :)



Larry

TWilliams
September 20, 2005, 08:17 AM
For me it would be a toss up between the Sig and the XD. I have a Sig pro 2340 that I happen to be carrying right this minute. It's a great shooter, but so is my XD9. The finish is better on the Sig though the XD is lighter weight. I guess it's a trade off, like everything else. I don't know that accuracy is an issue between the two, my two anyway.

Boss Spearman
September 20, 2005, 08:27 AM
Using that list, my vote is for the BHP.

AMT8951
September 20, 2005, 08:51 AM
I don't have much experience with the BHP. CZ75, or the XD. However, the HP and CZ have been around forever and have great reputations for accuracy and dependability. The XD is a much newer design, but I've only heard good things about them. I think you would do well to equip yourself with any of the three.

However, I do have a good deal of first hand experience with the SigPro. I purchased a 2340 while I was in the Police Academy, and have put well over 5,000 rds through it without a problem. The gun is extremiely acurate and reliable. The only complaints I have are that the decocker is a bit stiff (I've heard others complain of this as well), and after market accessories can be a little though to locate (although this is getting eaiser). The only people who seem to have a real problem with the SigPro, are (oddly enough) die hard "Classic Sig" fans who see anything with a polymer frame as an abomination.

Anyhow, there all good guns. If you want a single action, go with the HP, If you want a traditional double action, get the CZ. If you'd like good DAO (double action only) go with the XD. If you want a traditional DA with a Polymer frame, the SigPro is the way to go.

LH2
September 20, 2005, 09:49 AM
I appreciate the responses guys...

Lotsa love for the BHP. What is it people love about this pistol? Mainly the ergonomics? The fact it's SA?

I have heard CZ triggers get waaaaaaaaay better with dry firing and use.

And nobody seems to take the Sig Pro seriously. I think it's a very underrated gun... :)

The XD reminds me of a Honda Accord. Very competent, hard to fault, lots of fans, but not very exciting.

Webleymkv
September 20, 2005, 10:09 AM
All are good choices. I have first hand experience with both the CZ 75 (I own one) and the SIG Pro (my dad has one). I like the layout of the controls on the CZ better and the SIG's long but light DA trigger takes some getting used to but those are both just matters of personal preference. For what you described, I'd suggest the CZ because it is substantially less expensive than a SIG. Also, if you don't like the DA trigger on a CZ then you can always carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 or BHP. If you were going to carry the gun a lot I'd suggest the SIG because it's polymer and therefore lighter. Finally, I've heard that the trigger on a BHP can be drastically improved by removing the magazine disconnect.

dolanp
September 20, 2005, 10:47 AM
I love my XD but if carry is no concern for you and you're not that hot on the design I'd go with the CZ or the BHP. Narrow that down to the CZ if price is a concern. If that's not a concern go for the BHP they are nice guns.

LH2
September 20, 2005, 10:58 AM
I love my XD but if carry is no concern for you and you're not that hot on the design I'd go with the CZ or the BHP. Narrow that down to the CZ if price is a concern. If that's not a concern go for the BHP they are nice guns.

Money isn't a real big deal. Looks like about $200 separating BHP from CZ.

Are BHPs all made in Portugal now? Are the Belgian HPs no longer available?

Should I look at the Practical two-tone model, or the MkIII with the hard plastic (yet comfy) grips?

What are some easy out of the box mods to improve the BHP? Have a smith get rid of the mag release? Are trigger jobs helpful?

Do newer BHPs feed all ammo reliably?

Any way to avoid the hammer bite?

NRMCOLT
September 20, 2005, 11:01 AM
+1 for BHP :D

Webleymkv
September 20, 2005, 11:09 AM
You can get an Argentinian FM Hi Power for about $300. I hear they're about as good as the Belgian ones.

dirksterg30
September 20, 2005, 11:29 AM
I've found this website very helpful:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HiPowerComments.html

dgludwig
September 20, 2005, 12:18 PM
Of the pistols listed, I cast my vote for the BHP. I would like to vote for the CZ but, until they fix that trigger, it will always be an also-ran. Everybody claims that if you dry-fire it enough, the grit becomes smooth. Well, not on my example. Two broken trigger springs after hundreds of dry-firings don't inspire confidence in a pistol . I wanted to like the CZ: great ergonomics and a good looking pistol to boot. But you have to wonder about a manufacturer who has been aware of the "legendary" gritty trigger for years now and has done nothing to fix it.

briang2ad
September 20, 2005, 12:52 PM
Buy it in person! Try the trigger. If it is good - then it is the best deal. C/L option, DA/SA, and it feels and looks like the real thing. Besides, it will last. Most of the 75Bs I have handled have been pretty good. The P01s have had the trigger gritiness problem the most, and the last couple I have seen (not mine) have been better.

Alaskanmonte
September 20, 2005, 01:24 PM
You have short the BHP before and you fell in live with it, I think you already answered your own question. If it was me I would go with the BHP also. :)

toast
September 20, 2005, 04:48 PM
You have 4 different types of pistols listed. Deside if the types are important to you.

Types:
SA - cocked and locked, external safety
SA/DA - cocked and locked or a traditional DA first pull, external safety
SA/DA - decocker, no manual safety (as in prevent it from firing)
Striker fired - no decoker, no manual safety

Many Hi-power owners suggest removing the magazine disconnect feature to get a better trigger pull. Its easy to do and is much more affordable then a trigger job. But since this may be a home defense/truck gun removing it may not be a good idea if you have to defend yourself in a court case.

The CZ it will need to be manually decocked to get a DA first pull but is also available in a SA only model and a decocker model.

The sig has controls in non-standard locations. Should not be carried in SA mode and double action first shot is harder to be accurate with then SA. The DAK trigger in the classic line might also be worth looking at.

The springfield may be the easiest to defend in court. There is no manual safety to forget about. There is no SA mode to defend against. The trigger pull may be less welcome for accurate target shooting due to longer and harder pull then the above pistols in SA mode. Does not have double strike capability.

glock19er
September 20, 2005, 05:08 PM
most accurate 9mm of them all that i shot.cant say enough good about them.if they only cost 600 dollars like the other over priced stuff out there then more people would jump on the bandwagon and buy them.hmmmm if only hk or sig would sell them and stamp there logo on them then they couldnt make enough for supply and demand.what a shame!!!

Wildalaska
September 20, 2005, 05:48 PM
most accurate 9mm of them all that i shot.

Thank you for using the qualifier "that you shot"

Mkaes a difference you kn wo

WildthebhpisthemostaccurateonethatishotAlaska

PaladinX13
September 20, 2005, 06:10 PM
CZ75 - more control options, best bang for the buck, .22 Kadet Kit conversion for practice, all steel, Col. Cooper's endorsement, very durable polycoat finish, etc. With a CZ, you're paying for the gun not the name.

LH2
September 20, 2005, 06:25 PM
So even with the crap trigger, the CZ comes highly recommended. I've probably checked out 5 or 6 new CZ's and they were all gritty in DA.

Is it as easy as a trigger job, or usually just a bunch of dry firing?

You guys aren't making this easy.

FWIW the BHP trigger I checked out was pretty lousy as well.

XD's seem nice, and Sigs are OK. I guess everything gets better with use.

leadcounsel
September 20, 2005, 06:29 PM
XD baby! :)

Accurate, reliable, 1911 style grip safety, cocked indicator, ergonomic, and a great price around $450.

LH2
September 20, 2005, 09:40 PM
XD baby! :)

Accurate, reliable, 1911 style grip safety, cocked indicator, ergonomic, and a great price around $450.

Come to think of it I don't think I've ever heard anybody have any real complaints about the XD.

Maybe the worst thing was "it's a good gun but it's no Sig or CZ"

The DAO trigger is nice, being always the same pull. The ones I've sampled have real nice triggers. I can't believe more police depts aren't switching over to the XD.

glock19er
September 21, 2005, 04:51 AM
to many simple minded people at work on here i see, you know what i mean :)

dolanp
September 21, 2005, 10:26 AM
The DAO trigger is nice, being always the same pull. The ones I've sampled have real nice triggers. I can't believe more police depts aren't switching over to the XD.

The XD is single-action, not DAO. To be specific it is something 'special' they call Ultra Safety Assurance or something, but it is fully cocked and not partially cocked like Glocks.

Gannet
September 21, 2005, 03:24 PM
Be aware that Springfield has instituted a policy of not selling parts to anyone, period. If your XD ever needs service of any kind, you have to send it back to the factory. Just FYI, in case it makes a difference to you.

Mark54g
September 21, 2005, 03:53 PM
the CZ-75B that I shot is definately not a slouch on the trigger. It was a beautiful machine and it is BHP based, sorta.

briang2ad
September 21, 2005, 04:32 PM
Generally CZ 75 series have pretty good DA triggers. The SAs are gritty in some - you just have to go to a shop/show and check it out. The MANUAL 1911 style safety models are EASIER to work on - both for the gunsmith AND you. My 40, Compact, and PreB all have GREAT SA triggers. My PreB SA is now very good after MUCH dry firing. I expect my 40 and Compact triggers are pretty crisp, but need a bit of breaking in to solidify their camming. CZ triggers cam - it is an added safety feature, but either needs a smith, or some breaking in.

Detail stripping a CZ 75 is work, but it is doable. Detail stripping a P01 is NOT, nor any decocker - much more complicated - not for an "at home" job. I just broke down a new Compact, and it was pretty easy to get to the safety, sear cage, hammer, etc. You can repair them yourself. NOT with a P01.

And, the CZ looks a little like a BHP, but it is not based on it - not the trigger, not the safety, not the rails - not much in common. They share a GENERAL design similarity as do many modern semi-autos. I LIKE the way the HP looks and feels. I do not like the way the safety engages, and I like the DA/SA option - with the CZ, you get both.

xrageofangelsx
September 21, 2005, 07:13 PM
You can't go wrong with any any of them. My order of recommendations:

1. P-01
2. XD
3. 2340

All are fantastic.

LH2
September 22, 2005, 10:31 AM
Guys should I look at the Ruger 9mm's? I know they aren't the prettiest guns, but they tend to be reliable AND affordable. :)

garry owen
September 22, 2005, 11:08 AM
I would, in fact I'm considering a P95 as my next gun.

somerled
September 22, 2005, 11:35 AM
I am a big fan of the BHP. It is a natural pointer. The trigger is terrible mainly because of the magazine release "safety". Some remove the release. A good pistolsmith can smooth the trigger up without removing it.

The CZs and Springfield XDs are good choices as well. They aren't quite as pricey as the BHP. However, CDNN Investments has been advertising the FN version, the HP-SA, of the Hi-Power for $399.

If possible try each of the three out at a range before buying. I am looking forward to trying out the S&W M&P when they hit the market. I've been hearing good things about them--hopefully it isn't only marketing hype.

dave_in_delaware
September 22, 2005, 12:02 PM
I'm a bit partial to the XD myself. It's an awesome firearm IMHO. I have the 3" subbie version (for eventual concealed carry), but it comes in a 4" service and 5" tactical model, too. Calibers are (depending on model) 9x19mm, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and .45 GAP. Admittedly, I haven't shot the other guns from your list, but from all the research I had done before going gun shopping, the XD quickly got onto my list and climbed higher immediately. It's very comfortable to shoot right out of the box, natural grip angle, it's accurate, dependable, a breeze to field strip and clean, and comes w/ a lifetime warranty. I test shot it next to a similar Glock, and was so impressed with the XD-9sc, I picked one up that same day for $420. I also got my fiancee one, for $330 (used). I trust my life to an XD for HD/SD.

Boss Spearman
September 22, 2005, 11:36 PM
Back when I had a BHP Capitan, which was a great pistol, I bought an FM version. The FM doesn't hold a candle to the real thing. Not nearly as reliable or well made.

I think the FEGs are better made than the FMs.

boogalou1
September 23, 2005, 08:39 AM
I like the CZ75 over the others because it gives you a choice of DA/SA or SA only. I would think the CZ SA trigger overall is no better or worse then a HP, and they could both be improved upon with a little trigger work. It's pretty easy to take the roughness out of a CZ trigger by polishing up the sear, hammer hooks, and trigger bar. I like the XD also, and it would be my second choice if I couldn't have a CZ.

LH2
September 23, 2005, 10:38 AM
Seems like the CZ-75 has a long-ish trigger reach. After handling a few it seems like I want to rotate my grip around a bit to get my finger pad onto the trigger. This tells me it's a bit long for my small-med hands.

Will the CZ75SA have a shorter reach? The website photo looks like the SA model uses a different-shaped trigger and that the trigger is farther back in the trigger guard making it a shorter reach.

XD and Sig Pro are still in the mix. Decided I don't want to spend the $700 or so on a BHP.

Ruger GP100 .357 revolver seems like a good fit for what I need in 3 or 4 inch also.

MEDDAC19
September 23, 2005, 11:06 AM
LH2

Yes

boogalou1
September 23, 2005, 02:05 PM
LH2 - Just in case you didn't know, the CZ is meant to be carried at half-cock if you prefer DA mode. This will shorten up the trigger reach slightly. You are right though in that the CZ is not the best pistol for people with small hands.

LH2
September 25, 2005, 03:33 PM
LH2 - Just in case you didn't know, the CZ is meant to be carried at half-cock if you prefer DA mode. This will shorten up the trigger reach slightly.

So when you rack the CZ75 Slide, is the hammer down? So 1st pull is DA?

So from there you can either have a DA pull, or pull the hammer back and have all the shots SA?

If the trigger reach is just a bit on the long side I you're saying I could keep the gun in the car or for HD in C&L mode for long periods without issue?

How do you get the hammer to half cock - just pull it back about half way?

So, in essence, you don't really *ever* have to fire a CZ in DA if you don't want to with the C&L and half-cock options. Hmmm...

boogalou1
September 25, 2005, 03:58 PM
So when you rack the CZ75 Slide, is the hammer down? So 1st pull is DA?

The CZ75 hammer will be fully cocked in SA mode when the slide is racked.

If the trigger reach is just a bit on the long side I you're saying I could keep the gun in the car or for HD in C&L mode for long periods without issue?

Yes, there is no problem with keeping the CZ75 at cocked & locked for long periods of time.

How do you get the hammer to half cock - just pull it back about half way?

Correct, just pull hammer back until it clicks.

For all practical purposes, the CZ75 is considered to be in DA mode while at half-cock. On the de-cocker models, half-cock is where the hammer will release to when decocking.

A couple other things about the CZ75 is that the safety will only engage if the hammer is all the way back in SA mode. The CZ75 also makes use of a firing pin safety, in that if the hammer would happen to fall on the firing pin because of a sear or hammer hook failure, the gun wouldn't fire because of a block that will prevent the firing pin from touching the cartridge primer. The only time this block is inactivated is when the trigger is pulled and a lever connected to the trigger bar pushes the block out of the way.

For more info on CZ pistols go to the following link - http://p201.ezboard.com/bczechpistols82792

There's a bunch of CZHeads there who will be happy to answer any questions you may have with CZ pistols. :)