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View Full Version : NAA Gaurdian .vs Seecamp .vs Tomcat


BabyBoy
September 17, 2005, 02:43 PM
Out of the three which one would you choose?

michael t
September 17, 2005, 03:14 PM
32 Seecamp beats other 2 hands down. small, lighter and better trigger Also better QC. It top of line of small pocket pistols. Same would go for 380 model.

leadcounsel
September 17, 2005, 03:16 PM
Throw the Keltec .32 and .380 into the mix.

michael t
September 17, 2005, 03:45 PM
He didn't ask about Kel Tec so why are you trying to add to HIS list.
Seems to me he looking at pistols of good quality and reputation. Two of these pistols cost almost twice that of KT and show it it . In fit finish and QC.
I would buy a KT tommorow if they would bring their finished pistol to same standard of a Seecamp, Beretta ,Naa Guardian .And I would pay the 300 to 450 dollars they would charge. But they wouldn't So their at one end of market and the above at other end.

leadcounsel
September 17, 2005, 03:53 PM
He also didn't ask about the .380 caliber but YOU mentioned that too... Maybe he's considered the .380 and maybe not, but since it's so similar in size and a better performer (based on data), YOU and I thought to suggest it as it may have been overlooked.

The three guns he mentioned are similar in size as the Keltec, but weigh more and are not PROVEN better performers. And I've read equally good and bad reviews of the guns he's considering as well as the Kel tec. I have a Kel tec .380 and it's a fine firearm.

Perhaps the poster overlooked the Kel tec, maybe he has considered the Kel tec and maybe not.

I'm merely presenting other similar options that he may not have considered, including maker, model, and caliber.

This is a chat room where people inquire for advice. While not directly answering his question, my response is related based on size and caliber.

Why do you take issue with my suggestion of another similar product of equal quality with significant cost and weight advantages?

michael t
September 17, 2005, 04:11 PM
I just question the equal quality part. Thats why I said I would buy one as soon as QC is equal to the other 3. I am not trying to start a war just feel KT isn't in same class except by caliber.
To me weight isn't issue I pocket carry a PPK/S or a Colt Mustang In a good pocket holster you won't notice the difference in weight but will notice difference when shooting hot loads. Suppose we let person that started thread answer these questions. :)

leadcounsel
September 17, 2005, 04:26 PM
Not sure I agree with the QC point, but agreed we'll let the orginal poster decide....

:)

PS -- for my curiosity, I've heard the Colt Mustang is a great little gun, and is also quite hard to find. Your opinion?

kymasabe
September 17, 2005, 04:39 PM
In my opinion....the Beretta wouldn't even be an option for me. Every one of those tip-up barrel guns have had problems, jam-o-matics. As far as the Seecamp and the NAA guardian go, I'd take a Guardian over the Seecamp anyday. I was reading a report by a respectable U.S. gunsmith who was saying forget about what you see on the outside, internally the Guardian is a much better gun, better componants, better built. I already own a bug gun, a Kel-Tec .380 that had to back to Kel-Tec for repair. During that time I had a chance to shoot alot of other small guns and had my Kel-Tec not returned operating 100%...my next gun was already picked out, a NAA Guardian .32.
Sure, you can pay more for the bragging rights that you own a Seecamp, but don't for a minute think that you've bought yourself a better gun than the Guardian.

SouthpawShootr
September 17, 2005, 05:10 PM
I had a Tomcat. Nice little gun. Seem a bit bulking for what it fires. Mine functioned well as long as the chamber was kept clean and free of lubricant (this design lacks an extractor and uses the blowback action on which the gun is based to extract spent cases). I was paranoid and cleaned the chamber every couple of weeks when carrying regularly. At the range, I'd get jams after about a 50 round box of S&B as the chamber and barrel began to get dirty, but a quick pass of a boresnake took care of the problem. Probably had a little over 800 rounds through it when I got rid of it (I bought a Guardian .380 when they came out). The tip-up barrel was a feature I liked. Accuracy was decent from 15-20 feet away. I did forget to maintain a low grip one time and got bit - the back of the slide actually came to points where the rails were - looks just like a snake bite. Trigger's heavy but not as heavy as the Guardian (seems to me it stacked significantly at the just before release).

The Guardian has probably between 200 and 400 rounds through it. Been reliable, but you have to expect that the last round will stovepipe as this design uses the next round in the magazine as a makeshift ejector. Doesn't always happen, but it is common and not considered a malfunction (by me anyway). Actually you could consider a Guardian and Tomcat complementary guns, the Tomcat doesn't have an extractor and the Guardian doesn't have an ejector. :D

Don't have a Seecamp. Haven't even seen one except at a show and that was a .25 (& priced at $800 :eek: ). Kind of got to expect a wait on this gun since demand so far outstrips production.

I'd go for the Guardian, personally. However, if the Tomcat strikes your fancy I wouldn't feel barenaked unprotected by it either. Just remember what I said about keeping the chamber clean and dry. Any of these three will require a fair amount of trigger time to master the trigger as both have heavy pulls, but you're not shooting bullseye matches here either.

kymasabe
September 17, 2005, 09:04 PM
...just need to add something quickly here. The Guardian .32 that I shot was a rental, I have no idea when it was cleaned last, it was absolutely flawless, no feeding or ejection problems and I was amazed at how accurate it was. At 7 yards I was shooting 2 inch groups with the thing. I WAS shooting slowly and carefully, but...my Kel-Tec could never do that...as it has no sights. The Guardians weren't bad though...worked well.

michael t
September 18, 2005, 07:23 PM
Where Baby Boy he started this and no where to be found

rmcginley
September 19, 2005, 11:50 AM
I've never owned Guardian or Seecamp firearms...yet. But I do own a Tomcat. Actually I have shared custody of it. Most of the time it's mine and some of the time it resides back at Beretta for repair.

I'll continue to follow this thread because I too am considering one of the alternatives while I'm waiting to get my Tomcat returned. In the mean time I carry my trusty S&W 637 .38Spcl.

rdebert
September 19, 2005, 08:36 PM
Of the 3 I can only comment on the Tomcat. I have one of the Inox (stainless) versions. Mine has been great. Had a few failures in the first 1 to 2 mags through it after buying it new...probably wasn't using a firm enough grip. I have had no problem since. I don't normally fire a whole lot of rounds through it at the range because as I understand it after it gets pretty dirty it can get finicky. Mostly fire a few mags through it to "verify it." I (personally) like the size and weight...feels good in my hand...and is surprisingly accurate (with single action trigger pull...the double action pull is tough and throws me off). I also really like the tip up barrel. Have heard of people that have problems with the Tomcat...so far (knocking on wood)...I am not one of them and (therefore) like it quite a bit.

Hitman5
September 24, 2005, 04:57 PM
Hmmm check the NAA website and see how many guns need to go in for tweaks. I hear they have great customer service. After shooting my friends guardian and my later purchased Seecamp. Seecamp al the way.

106RR
September 24, 2005, 06:06 PM
I would have to vote for a recently manufactured T'Cat. The early ones had problems including a difficult safety. My early T'Cat has been back to the factory a couple of times and I now own a hybrid T'Cat. It's a late model frame with a new skinny slide and early model barrel. Everything BUT the barrel has been replaced. It's both reliable and accurate. Naturally, all three pistol choices are blowback operated and require extra maintenance. These things shoot dirty, even the mags have to be cleaned more frequently than locked breech pistols.
I used to belong to a club that had regular mousegun matches. Prizes and gift certificates were given on a weekly basis. The T Cat is distinctive because it is one of two guns I own, that earned more than their purchase price in winnings. It also should have gotten frequent flyer miles for it's trips back to the factory. Only the new ones would be suitable for defense.

MartinR
September 25, 2005, 01:58 PM
I like my NAA Guardian in .32acp and carry it almost daily (on duty backup, off duty CCW)

Heard of problems w/ Tomcat, but no direct experience. The Tomcat is the largest of the three.

I have had a couple of problems with my Guardian over the past 4+ years (drawbar spring and firing pin spring broke), but I still would select it over either of the other ones listed.

1. Guardian can shoot almost any .32acp ammo (Seecamp limited to hollowpoints).

2. Guardian requires no tools to fieldstrip.

3. Guardian has more conventional thumb magazine disconnect.

4. NAA has excellent customer service.

5. Guardian pretty reliable. (ANY semi-auto mousegun IMO will have some reliability issues - a revolver would probably be more reliable).

6. Guardian has sights (none on Seecamp).

mini14jac
September 30, 2005, 02:09 PM
I had a KelTec that I liked, but there has never been any Pride of Ownership with any of my KelTec guns. They are just plain tools.
And, each has had multiple trips to the factory.

Had a Guardian in 1998 that had some issues.
Looked hard at a Seecamp when I saw that prices were down to Guardian range.
Then I read how they ship and extra spring with each gun.
(Trigger maybe?)
Seems if you pull the slide back while the mag is out, you destroy this spring, so they send you an extra one.
It's a small point, but it bugs me.

Anyway, I found I could get barely used Guardian for $175 - 250.
Seecamps are nowhere near that price range.
I don't think there is anything to be gained by a jhp in these small .32s, and I'd rather have the flexibility to shoot what I want.
So, I picked up a low-mileage Guardian, and I'm really pleased with it.

How many Guardians have been back for service?
Hmmmm....
Hard to tell.
I wouldn't be surprised if more Guardians have been repaired than Seecamps have been produced. :p

Seriously, there are way more Guardians out there than there are Seecamps, and the Seecamp was in production for years longer.
Anyone that thinks Seecamps don't break hasn't been reading much.
And when they do break, they don't have near the service dept. that NAA has.

Tomcat- well, I looked hard at them too.
They are a cool looking gun.
I found the trigger pull to be awful, and the slide impossible to work.
(Yes, I know you can tip the barrel.)
They are more bulky than the competing guns, and I really want the smallest gun possible.
And, the Tomcat manual says specifically not to carry the gun with a round in the chamber. :barf:
Now, they may do that for legal reasons, but that took the Tomcat off of my list.
NAA had their guns drop tested, because they are designed to be carried with a round loaded.

Oh, and the standard response is.... buy one of each. :D