View Full Version : Questions RE Colt 9mm Rifle and an HK MP5

August 3, 2005, 11:38 PM
Dear Folks:
I'm having a couple of little problems and was hoping someone here could help.

First, our shop recently bought a Colt 9mm rifle from one of our good customers who needed some cash. The question is whether the rifle is a LE only rifle. The reason I'm asking is that all the books I've checked state that Colt sold a lot of LE only rifles without marking them LE only. These same books also say that it is a criminal offense for anyone other than a LEO to possess one of these unmarked LE only rifles. I have called Colt, but they were of no help. I've looked on the web and haven't found anything other than a few references to serial numbers below TA 10100 being "preban." I called ATF and all they could do was suggest that I call Colt, which I have already done without any success.How can I find out if this thing is LE only?

Second, another fellow, also a LEO, sold a semi-auto HK MP5 to us and we were ready to put it out on the rack for resale when another LEO tells us that there is a problem. According to this fellow, because the rifle has a pistol grip forearm, it is a Class II weapon. Once again, we called ATF, but they only offered to send us a new set of regulations and refered us to their website which really isn't too helpful. We also called HK, but again, they weren't too helpful either, saying only that they would be willing to fit it with the standard forearm if we send to them and pay an exorbident amount. I know that there are kits and so forth to put forward pistol grips on AR's, SKS's and AK's, but those aren't quite the same as an MP5. Is an otherwise civilian-legal MP5 a class 2 weapon just because it has a forward pistol grip?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

August 4, 2005, 12:14 AM
1. Unless you live in one of the "wierd states" like NY, Cali and NJ, you can do what you please with that Colt, no law says you cant....under federal law no such thing as a LE rifle..and what book says there is?

2. If you have an SP89 (Semi auto MP5K) with a pistol grip fore grip, its an AOW..take the grip off and toss it. Not an AOW anymore (unless it was registered as an AOW and then I hope you did transfer paperwork) If it is a HK94 or clone (ie 16 inch bbl and stock) its no problem


James K
August 4, 2005, 07:54 PM
Hi, Wildalaska,

Is that AOW business a BATFE ruling? I don't see anything in the definition of an AOW about pistol grips. That was part of the now-defunct "assault weapon" ban, but (AFAIK) was never included in Title II (NFA). If the gun has a barrel less than 16" long, it is a short barrel rifle, regardless of the type of foreend.

Here is the AOW definition from 26 U.S.C., E 53 (B) 1, 5845

"(e) Any other weapon
The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition."


August 4, 2005, 08:08 PM
Pistol grip forend....that makes it an AOW..