View Full Version : is there something wrong with my club?

May 14, 2000, 01:05 PM
Our local club held our first Cowboy Action match yesterday...went much better than expected, although we spent the day yelling at shooters for unsafe gun handling. If you are not on the line, leave your guns the hell alone...sigh...

I did catch some flak for extracting a penalty for non-A-zone hits...heh heh...costumes are fun, persona is great, but what about shooting straight?

Anyway, after all the visiting cowboys left, the rest of us swapped calvary boots for combat boots and decided to run all the stages again.

With modern guns.

IPSC open guns for pistols, a pistol-gripped 870 for shotgun, and a Thompson for the rifle.

We noted about a 50% increase in speed, and a 250% increase in sunburns. (we played for a long time).

Does this make us bad people?

Lone Iguana

[This message has been edited by wakal (edited May 14, 2000).]

Bill Mitchell
May 14, 2000, 01:45 PM
Howdy wakal,

From your message,it sounds as though y'all are using cardboard IPSC silhouettes for targets. Most CAS clubs use steel targets-competitors either get a hit or miss. Folks used to shooting matches like that might get a little perturbed when they get penalized even though they hit the target. Don't forget,it's Cowboy Action Shooting-turning it into a Bullseye match,or an IPSC match(no offense),isn't really what the game is about. Most CAS pistols are fixed sights and may not shoot right to point of aim,thus targets tend to be pretty big and fairly close to the shooter. Keep your matches fun,and not too difficult,and folks will keep coming back.

Bellicose Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Mitchell (edited May 14, 2000).]

May 14, 2000, 03:01 PM
Hey, I'm not that cruel...but I don't see why anyone should miss the A-zone when firing at a target three feet away.

Of the four stages, two were nothing but steel, one was half steel, and the last was all paper. All the handgun targets were inside 7 yards, the rifle target's longest shot was 15 yards.

Personally speaking, both my pistols shoot to point of aim. A bit of load tweaking, a touch of sight filing, and I hit what I aim at. It just doesn't take much. My derringer, on the other hand...sigh...

Just trying to put the 'shoot straight' back in the phrase "ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth" (good book, too)

The best thing about CAS is the minimal amount of whining...I really get sick of the IPSC W-class shooters (whiney) putting the game in gamesmanship. Just shoot and either smile sagely or laugh it off, depending. :)

We had a little side game I threw in to give my scoring team time to, well, score. Two full size poppers set to duel mode...so much fun we ran it again with lever guns. May have to run it with shotguns next month...heh heh...


Ned Roundtree
May 15, 2000, 08:53 PM
Yeee-Haaa! Cowboy Action Shooting and USPSA three gun. Is that Colt Peacemaker open or limited class? I'm a cowboy first but I do love three gun matches. Get to use my Springfield Armory 1911, CAR-15 (.223), and Remington 870 (ghost ring rear, rifle front w/ tritium inset and side saddle).Last match had shotgun stage with transition to pistol. If you think about it my Ruger Vaqueros, 1873 Winchester rifle, and 97 Winchester pump is a 1870s three gun match. I'm so confused. 1st Sat of month, SASS with Ky Regulators, 1st Sunday of the month, USPSA three gun or CAS with Knob Creek Gunfighters, Second weekend, two days of CAS in McKEE , third Sunday-IDPA, Fourth Sat-CAS at Glasgow, fourth Sunday-SASS at Fox Bend, fifth Sat.- CAS in Miami, OH. GSSF every once in a while and oh yeah, Skeet club shoots Thursdays, Sat & Sundays. No, nothing wrong with your club. Enjoy!

[This message has been edited by Ned Roundtree (edited May 15, 2000).]

David Roberson
May 16, 2000, 10:39 AM
Wakal, I am also involved in my first cowboy action shooting league. It's the first time this range has sponsored any cowboy shoots, and the match director (my brother) has come up with some original and fun shooting events. The problem is that some participants who have come from a local CAS club are complaining that the targets are too hard to hit. (We shoot steel plates and bowling pins at ranges from 15 to 25 yards with rifles and pistols.) My view is that is's supposed to be a cowboy SHOOTING league, which implies that it's not unreasonable to expect participants to be able shoot at least a little. However, I think some CAS participants are less interested in shooting than they are in participating in a Village People fashion show.

One complainer claimed, "Cowboy action shooting is not about how accurate you are, it's about how fast you can shoot." Hmm. Somehow I have a hard time understanding how you can miss fast enough to win a gunfight.

Bill Mitchell
May 16, 2000, 11:47 AM
Howdy David,

I shoot at several clubs,but my home club uses 18x24 steel for pistol targets,set at about 10 yds.,and 12x12 steel for rifle targets,set at about 15 yds. Out of an average of 100 shooters at our monthly matches,maybe two will shoot the match clean. Big and close doesn't mean that folks don't have to aim. My point here is that emphasizing the "Action" in Cowboy Action Shooting makes for a fun match for experienced and new shooters alike. CAS brings a lot of folks who have never participated in a shooting sport before. These folks have stock guns with factory ammo that might not shoot right to point of aim. These folks need to be kept in mind when planning CAS matches.

A number of folks that shoot CAS just do it for fun. They're not out to win,just shoot,commiserate,and,yes,dress up like a cowboy. That's part of the game. I usually finish in the top ten of the matches I shoot,but I also enjoy dressing up-spurs,cuffs,stovepipe boots with mule ears. If that makes me part of a "Village People fashion show",then so be it,but I'm playing the game the way it's meant to be played. If your going to run a cowboy match,don't denegrate those who show up and pay their money to shoot if they dress like a cowboy but don't shoot well.

Bellicose Bill

David Roberson
May 16, 2000, 01:59 PM

I thought my first post stated this clearly, but I'll repeat: _I'm_ not running the match. This is the first cowboy league operated at this range and the first one I've participated in.

But I'm sorry if my comments appeared to denigrate people who don't shoot well. I have nothing hut respect for people who don't shoot well but want to try to learn. (And there are clearly some of those in this league.) I'm less impressed with people who don't shoot well and then complain that the match wasn't supposed to be a test of shooting skill anyway. If not, then why keep score? Also, I watched the match closely and I'm pretty sure the targets are the same size no matter who's on the line.

If your point is that cowboy shoots should be easy enough not to be intimidating to people with little or no shooting ability, that's probably valid. It may be that this range will have to restructure its cowboy matches to make them more of a "gateway" to the shooting sports. And maybe it's just not the game for me, which is also fine: One nice thing about the shooting sports is that there are lots of possibilities.

May 16, 2000, 05:13 PM
David had some good points, things most of our club tends to agree with. However, there are some folks that think fast fast fast instead of doing like Wyatt said and taking your time and hitting first is more important. When I used to shoot CAS in Hawaii, my wife (an avid IPSC shooter herself) was inticed to join CAS by having a female shooter tell her that "...we don't care about the shooting, just the dressing up...". My wife ran, and still refuses to shoot CAS. She wears a hat and boots, and does the match scoring, so at least she is CLOSE...

I don't mean to denegrate anyone, my post was more about how weird we are (shooting CAS stages with a Tommy and a laser-sighted gyro-stabilzed ninja-issue geek pistol) that the very few folks whining about being penalized for, say, missing the A-zone of an IPSC-standard paper target at 3 feet.

That said, all the long shots were on steel, only the stort stuff was paper. I didn't want to shoot steel at three feet!

Dressing up as a cowboy is part of the fun...but this is a shooting sport, not a fancy dress party (for you blokes across the pond).

Again for the record, I don't wear Levi's and crepe-soled boots...custom stovepipe mule-ear boots, Wah-Maker pants and bib-front shirt (or dress shirt and vest), big ole' spurs (San Angelo pattern, for that is where I am after all), wrist cuffs...if there is some nifty old-time cowboy stuff I DON'T have, it must be on order :) I shoot Dualist, but may transition to Gunfighter soon. I hate adjustable sights, but some folks have worse eyes, I guess...heh heh...have to make allowances.

My schedual isn't as bad as Ned's...now it has my cowboy match the second Saturday, Abilene's IPSC match the third Sunday, San Angelo's IPSC match the fourth Sunday...this is in addition to tossing an M1 Garand around as part of my base Honor Guard. I need longer (and more) weekends!

So do we all, I think.


Bill Mitchell
May 16, 2000, 05:40 PM
Howdy David,

Apologies for my comment about you running the match.

Complaining(whining) is generally frowned upon in CAS circles. I shoot at a match every month that has small targets at pretty good distances. The folks that run this match are quite proud of the fact that no one has ever shot the match clean in the three years or so it has been going on. I go there knowing what to expect. Some shooters avoid it because of the target selection. But,I've never complained to the match director about the targets.

When starting up a new club,however,a match director will probably get some folks who have never shot a CAS match,as well as folks from other clubs. It's best,IMHO,to start out with pretty easy targets,and then mix in a few smaller ones,but the whole match shouldn't be a Bullseye match. And,yes,the targets are the same size for everyone,but the skill of CAS shooters varies widely,perhaps more than any shooting sport. It's not uncommon for new CAS shooters to be new shooters,period. There are also some incredibly good shooters. One of the best ones in the country is from your state. If you're not busy over Memorial Day weekend,the second largest CAS shoot in the world is being held in Gainesville,GA May 25-28. The Shootout at Mule Camp (http://www.mulecamp.com) will host over 500 shooters,including many of the best,and we'd like any and all to come share this great event. Marshal Harland Wolf,a member of the Old North State Posse in N.C.,is the two-time defending champ.

Bellicose Bill

David Roberson
May 16, 2000, 09:26 PM

The Mule Camp match looks like fun, but it appears to be a SASS sanctioned event, and I'm still deciding if I want to join SASS, so I might not get motivated enough to do that by Memorial Day. But I'll keep it in mind. I'd also need to get a period shotgun, since our league shoots only rifle and pistol and none of my shotguns are CAS suitable. ("Hey, honey, I really have to get a new shotgun so that I can compete in SASS events." Hmm, not bad, that.)

Is the Old North State Posse the group that shoots in Salisbury? Some folks here in the Charlotte area go up there to shoot occasionally. Might be worth a look.

Thanks for the info.

I know crossposting among forums is not appreciated at TFL, so I'll just mention that I have a Bisley question posted in the Handguns forum. If any of you guys shoot Colt Bisley clones, I'd appreciate your comments.

Bill Mitchell
May 17, 2000, 08:00 AM
Howdy David,

The Mule Camp shooters spots are long since full. I was suggesting you come down and have a look. We'll have lots of entertainment,and about 50 vendors. Gainesville is in NE GA,so it might make for a day trip,though I'm not sure where you are in NC.

Yea,the Old North State Posse is in Salisbury.

I'll have a look at your Bisley post.

Bellicose Bill

Ned Roundtree
May 18, 2000, 10:14 PM
Cowboy Action shooting is as much about costuming as shooting. Costuming varies from club to club. But when you come to our club, the first thing that hits you is the attention to authenticity and detail that our cowboys and cowgirls have in their costumes. The second thing that you notice is the comraderie and laid back atmosphere. Thirdly, those beautiful guns and leather. Nothing like a matched pair of 7 1/2" b/ch Colts, action tuned, sitting in a set of El Paso Saddlery holsters. We all have fun and shooting skills like anything else vary from shooter to shooter. The targets are generous in size and close. It's a lot of fun.