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View Full Version : Swedish Meatball or Swiss Miss?


Leif
May 4, 2005, 08:07 AM
As per the silly title, I'm debating with myself between the Swedish Mauser and the Swiss K-31. I'm most interested in acquiring a well-functioning, decently accurate firearm at a reasonable price for practice at the range. These seem to be the most accurate of the milsurp lot and reasonable in price.

My gut tells me to go Swede on this one, even though the K-31 is far less expensive. The 6.5 Swedish cartridge seems to have a very good reputation and I'm concerned about the availability of 7.5 Swiss over the long haul. I don't want to get stuck in the same situation as someone who has a Mannlicher or Carcano - cool milsurp for which nobody makes ammunition. I don't reload or plan to in the near future. Are my fears baseless, or does this make sense?

Or should I bag it all and go with a modern firearm chambered for 6.5 Swedish, say a pricey Winchester M70?

FirstFreedom
May 4, 2005, 08:31 AM
Get the swede now, since the prices are going up, and the K31 later. If you're going to scope it, then just go ahead and spend more and get a commercial rifle - the Winchester, Howa, Tikka, and I believe CZ all come in 6.5x55, which I think is here to stay, at least for our lifetimes. Swede will kick a little less too. I've heard that Swede 96s (original) win a lot of milsurp competitions - 'course they're using tuned handloads.

Leif
May 4, 2005, 08:50 AM
That's sort of what I was thinking. I am planning on scoping whatever I buy, so maybe it's better to go modern on this one. I like the Swedish Mausers, but I'm not sure I want to play "pimp my gun" with one in order to get it to accept a scope.

Question about 6.5 Swedish: if I don't plan on reloading, is this a good choice? Is factory ammunition good, or will I really be missing out on its potential by sticking to that alone?

oneeyeross
May 4, 2005, 09:02 AM
Check out the milsurp forums about the Swedes and K-31. I don't think you'd be disappointed with either one.

Some people discribe the K-31 as a target rifle in battle rifle dress.

And the Swedes are so nice in 6.5.

Either way, they'd be sweet..

Sam Adams
May 4, 2005, 09:51 AM
Your concerns regarding ammo availability for the 7.5 Swiss are about to disappear. Wolf will be marketing a made-in-Yugoslavia round starting this summer. It is to be brass-cases and boxer primed (i.e. reloadable), as well as being non-corrosive. It should be priced very decently, although no one seems to know exactly where (I would suspect something like $8.00 per box or maybe less.

The best thing about the 7.5 is that once you have a supply of brass, you're good to go for a long time. It takes .308 bullets (which'll probably stopped being made sometime around when you regularly see flocks of flying pigs). Also, if you're into reloading, Graf's will have new supplies of its house-brand 7.5 brass beginning at the end of July. I got 100 cases late last year, so I'm fine for a while (though I'll pick up more).

I have no experience with the Swedes, but I can tell you that the K-31s are real gems. I'd suggest checking out Allan's Armory http://www.allans-armory.com/aa.asp . You pay a bit more, but he gives you better than advertised, and my rifle is a real good shooter. The comment about a target rifle in battle rifle dress is about right. Perhaps the Swedes are as accurate, and perhaps they are a better investment - I don't know, but I DO know that I love my Swiss Miss. For $132 including shipping, it is about my favorite rifle. BTW, you will want to get a set of Mojo aperture sights - they really help with the sight picture (and, of course, accuracy) without detracting from the rifles classic appearance the way an expensive scope does. http://www.mojosights.com/

FirstFreedom
May 4, 2005, 10:22 AM
Question about 6.5 Swedish: if I don't plan on reloading, is this a good choice? Is factory ammunition good, or will I really be missing out on its potential by sticking to that alone?

That is an excellent question, and I think the answer is yes, you'll be missing out *somewhat* on the cartridge's capability if you don't reload. If you do reload, you can hotrod 6.5 swede and 7x57 mauser significantly more than the factory offerings *in a modern rifle*, in my understanding. It's still an excellent cartridge regardless, and you might get one with an eye toward reloading in the future. If you don't think you'll reload, you might pick a more modern caliber that has factory ammo loaded to its potential. I agree that if you want to scope it, you're much better off getting a modern sporter ready for mounting hardware, for at least 2 reason...one is its not a good idea to bastardize a piece of history, of which there are limited numbers, and two, it's a pain in the rear (expense) to do so, with potentially disappointing results (drill and tap; possibly contouring the reciever to accept brand 'X' scope mount, aftermarket low safety is often a necessity, etc.). So your savings on the rifle itself disappear.

Leif
May 4, 2005, 02:45 PM
Thanks for the advice, everybody. I'm going to have to think about this one for a while.

jefnvk
May 4, 2005, 10:52 PM
I have a Swede Mauser m/96 and a Remington 700, both in 6.5x55. I see no reason for any other hunting cartridge

I'll eventually have a K31, but the m/96 is just so much sexier, IMHO ;) Both are fine rifles, though. I heard somewhere that if someone were to produce new K31's today, they'd be in the proice range of $2000 :eek:

Wildalaska
May 5, 2005, 03:16 AM
OK...heres the Edge, assuming a Swede 38 (24 inch barrel turned down bolt)

1. Usability: Swede 38 is a classic bolt action, Swiss a strraight pull...as much as I like straight pulls, the swiss one is way to long for most folks in many postions, its also clunkier. Swede recoils less. Edge Swede

2. Ballistics...roughly equal. Edge..even

3. Ammo availability: Many loads for Swedes including FederAL, nORMA etc, virtually none (even if Wolf does show up) for Swiss. Better supply of brass for swedes. edge, swede

4. Accuracy. Never having wrung out a Swiss, i cant do anyhting in this area other than take reports of happy swiss users and say they are roughly equal. Edge:even

5. Looks...Classic swede vs clunky swiss...edge..Swede

6. Collectibility: Swede, especially if matching. Edge swede.

7. Sturdiness. Even if built like a swiss watch, the swis has never been proven in combat. the swede has (by the Finns). Its still a Mauser. Edge swede

Using a 96 or 96/38 in th above anaylsis still results in a swede victory

WildimgonnagetaswisstooanywayAlaska

novus collectus
May 5, 2005, 05:15 AM
My K31 arrived Tuesday. I'm going to get a Swatch to match it. :)

I don't know about the Swede and the K31's metal is in great shape, but If you want a nice looking gun w/o restoration, I have never seen a K31 without a damaged stock. (I've only seen a dozen though) So you may want to get the Swede first IMHO, but buying the K31 is just so cheap!!!

FirstFreedom
May 5, 2005, 09:24 AM
So, novus, to change the time on that Swatch, I guess you pull the button in and out, instead of turning it. :)

2002gti
May 5, 2005, 10:08 AM
i say get the k31 as you can have them for $100-$150 the swede will set you back $300+. from a pure collectable standpoint the swede is the way to go, but if your planning to sportorize/scope it out then deff. go with the swiss as you really dont want to do that to a $300 swede.

Sturm
May 5, 2005, 04:46 PM
I agree, if you are just going to shoot military ammo, take your pick. Swiss Miss, has a very good reputation for accuracy, but, few have a better reputation for inherent accuracy than the Swede.

Like FirstFreedom said, it is available in the CZ 550 American with a 23.6" barrel, or the Mannlicher stocked FS with a 20.5" barrel. The 550 is a modified and square bridge Mauser so standard loads are a breeze and the higher pressure loads (up to 55,000 rather than the standard 45,000 PSI) in the manuals will work fine. This rifle is also chambered in.270 (65,000 PSI). The only real limiting factor of the cartridge in a rifle this strong is the case itself and the Swede is actually much stronger than it's design pressure would suggest, Hence the hotter load data for MOEDERN BOLT ACTION RIFLES WITH STRONG ACTIONS. Scope rings come with the rifle along with a single set trigger that when set, by pushing the trigger forward, will give you a pull weight of 14 oz. Might come in handy for serious accuracy and long range shots on game. Price is about $450 +/- from your dealer. Most owners equate the quality of the CZ, to rifles in the $750 + category. I wouldn't disagree!;)

www.cz-usa.com

cracked butt
May 6, 2005, 04:20 AM
I have a couple of each.

I'd give the precision edge to the swedes (group better)
Accuracy goes to the swiss (having sights that will hit your point on aim at 100 yards rather than 300 yards with the swede.)
The swiss rifles fit me more naturally, but this is purely subjective.
The swede rifles are more pleasant to shoot- a lot less recoil.
I wouldn't use a swede 96 for hunting- barrel is too long and unwieldy in brush, but I would consider using a Swiss.
Swede rifles are prettier to look at and the stocks are usually in much better shape.
The Swiss rifles have much better triggers than the average swede, though I have a swede that was probably used as a match rifle in its former life and has the best trigger I've ever felt on a rifle.

Ammunition isn't really a concern to me as I reload for both, though the readily available (by mail order) GP-11 ammo is top shelf stuff.

Swiss rifles are much cheaper to buy right now, they are a steal for what some places are selling them for.

I'd flip a coin and pick one or just buy both. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Swede 96 if it were less than $200 or a 38 if it were less than $300.

Leif
May 6, 2005, 07:52 AM
Wow, this is why I love this website ... tons of great advice here. I'm leaning toward a modern, commercial production 6.5 Swedish at this time.

The Mannlicher-style CZ mentioned above looks really interesting. I've been wanting a rifle in this format for some time now, so this might be a good way to take care of both, ahem, "needs" (Mannlicher stock and 6.5 Swedish). Does anybody have any experience with the Mannlicher versions of the CZ rifles, in both this caliber or any other chambering? Good? Bad? Indifferent? I've never seen one in a store, so all of the information I have is from their website. Beautiful looking firearms and apparently significantly cheaper and available in a wider array of calibers than the Ruger versions with Mannlicher stocks. Anyway, any input on this is much appreciated.

Vic303
May 6, 2005, 09:05 AM
Oh, just get the Swede. You'll never regret it. If you can find one that someone has already chopped/sporterized, they will probably have already d/t'd it for scope anyway. I love my swede!

Jseime
May 6, 2005, 06:15 PM
how bout a blonde haired blue eyed swedish girl and a swiss rifle?

that way you get something good from each country

jefnvk
May 6, 2005, 06:25 PM
I could also go for a Swede rifle and a Swiss girl.

Or maybe a Swiss and a Swede girl :D

Even better, a Swiss and a Swede girl equipped with a 96 and a K31 :D :D

Sturm
May 6, 2005, 06:28 PM
How about any combination of the 2! :D

Leif, I don't mean to stray people away from this forum, but check the rifle section of CZ Forum and ask some of the guys that have the Mannlicher. They love 'em!

On a different note, if one was to need a little more velocity later, the twist rate of the CZ Swedes is appropriate for the heavier 6.5's in 6.5 X .284! I was thinking about doing this with a 550 American, by reaming the chamber. That would change the Green Card status of the 550 American to Naturalized Citizen! ;)