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Sam Adams
May 2, 2005, 06:03 PM
Does anyone know the production numbers for the M39's major variants? I know that this is an area shrouded in some mystery, and that total production numbers were in the area of 130,000. There was an excellent attempt to analyze the relative rarity of various Mosin-Nagant variations (ALL of them, Russian, Finnish, Polish, etc.), on a 1-to-10 scale (10 being the most rare), at http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRarity.htm However, this analysis gives no numbers.

The major manufacturers/variations of the M39 are:

Sako
VKT
Sk.Y
Tikka
"B" barrel
No maker, late date (as in 1967-70, some reported 1972s and '73s)
No maker, no date

I ask because I just ordered a "no maker, no date" from Wholesale Guns & Ammo http://www.gunsnammo.com./ I know that the "no maker" guns are quite rare, probably numbering less than 6,000, but having no date is a rarity within a rarity. On top of that, the receiver is a pre-1899 antique (maybe that's a 3rd rarity, but I'm sure that no one could possibly know the production numbers of pre-1899 rifles vs. those made post-1898).

Thanks for any help or information.

ksstargazer
May 2, 2005, 09:15 PM
You might try www.mosinnagant.net for more information concerning numbers. I do know the largest number made were the Sakos, followed closely by VKT. Those two makes represent at least 80% of the total production. The Tikka, SKy, and B-barrel make up most of the remaining 20%. The late date and no date production numbers are pretty small - I am sure they represent less than 5% of the total. Then there are other variations such as straight stock, postulaitos stamped, and other minor variations make make collecting them interesting. I have 5 M39's and bought them without regard to being antique and only one of them happened to be antique (My Sky). Not much of a sample but it represents 20% for me. I've noticed quite a few antique receivers for sale on WGA's list of rifles.

Sam Adams
May 3, 2005, 10:34 AM
I've also noticed the antiques on WG&A's website. I think that they are both more attractive and more rare due to age, and more desireable due to the fact that one doesn't need a 4473 and can have them delivered to your doorstep even without a C&R license.

Thanks for the reference to mosinnagant.net. I found a good article at http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/finnish_mosin_nagantm39.asp It indicates that wartime production was 96,800 rifles, of which Sakos numbered 66,500 and VKTs 30,300. The "B" barrels were made by VKT, though not marked as such, and are thought to number somewhere between 9,000 and 10,000. The SK.Y barrels were apparently part of the wartime rifle production, so while they're rare, they don't add to the total number made. Total production is thought to be roughly 102,000, leaving roughly 5,200 non-Sako, non-VKT, non "B" barrel rifles. The "no maker" production from 1967-70 appears to be about 3,000, leaving about 2,200 of the oddball rifles, to wit:

1) No name, no maker;
2) "48";
3) Round receivers (very rare); or
4) "Polustuslaitos" marked (another way of saying "government property," which is marked on most of the other rifles as "SA" inside a box); this was used for only 2 months in 1942.

Note that Tikka made 5,000 barrels, but these only replaced existing barrels that were worn or damaged.

In conclusion, the "no maker, no date" M39s appear to be limited to 2,200 at maximum, but the figure must be less because of the other 3 variants. Probably it is in the neighborhood of 1,000, but who knows?

I would be very grateful if anyone who knows more than I do about this could analyze it or provide specific numbers.

2002gti
May 3, 2005, 02:37 PM
i asked the same question on another board and got these numbers from a member that he read in one of his books:

sako - 59,278
vkt - 38,990
B barrell - 12,889
sk.y - 10,588
tika - 5,000
67-70 no maker - 5,171

these numbers kind of corrospond to the link that youve been using. made me go and buy 3 no-makers.

Sam Adams
May 3, 2005, 03:42 PM
B barrell - 12,889
sk.y - 10,588
tika - 5,000

As mentioned, these figures, while indicating some degree of rarity in these particular variations, are included within the Sako and VKT overall production numbers. Counting those 2 makers and the "no maker" rifles, overall production would be 103,439 per your figures, roughly the same as the 102,000 that "my" article quoted. Either way, the "no maker" rifles are fairly rare, and the "no maker, no date" rifle that I will be getting is even more rare.

Next question: do you have any idea what percentage of the M-39s use pre-1899 receivers?