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coolridelude
April 27, 2005, 09:33 PM
i want to buy an sks in about 3 months . i have been reading the forums but got a guestion that i can not answer or found enough info to help me. if i get an sks when do i have to change the parts? if i get the sks can i leave as is or do i have to change the parts? i live in Texas so it is legal but the change the parts make me not want to get one. if i have to change the parts how much will it cost? would i be better getting another gun. i will have about $400 to spend but i just a gun as is. i hope sks is in the future. thanks. what would be the a good price for one and a website would really help. yes i can go to gunamerica or something like that but i would feel better for a store or online store. thanks

rbernie
April 27, 2005, 09:38 PM
You don't need to worry about the US-made parts count UNTIL you start taking stuff off of it and modifying it from its original configuration.

So don't do that. Just buy a $200 Norinco and shoot the snot outta it. :cool:

DPris
April 27, 2005, 10:03 PM
What parts are you thinking you have to change on an SKS?
Buy it & shoot it, nothing needs to be changed.
Denis

knzn
April 27, 2005, 10:03 PM
I guess I have not been paying attention. What is this "parts" talk?

fanoblack
April 27, 2005, 10:33 PM
Some firearms that are imported have to meet a certain parts count that is made in the U.S. to be considered Sporting. I think the number is no more than 10 nondomestic parts, but I thought that only applied to more battleminded firearms like AKs and FALs, I thought the SKSs were fine due to their lack of detachable magazines.

fanoblack

MTMilitiaman
April 27, 2005, 10:48 PM
Changing parts and tinkering with it can be fun, but is by no means necessary. SKSs are perfectly serviceable plinkers as they come and in my opinion so a far better job of the ranch rifle concept than Ruger's rendetion.

Destructo6
April 27, 2005, 11:51 PM
The imported parts count list is around here, posted many times. It's part of Sec922r and lists 21 (iirc) specific parts that contribute to the imported parts count.

If you change the configuration of a rifle to that of being unimportable, the rifle can include no more than ten imported parts from that list.

Remember, it's not adding US parts, it's eliminating imported parts.

rbernie
April 28, 2005, 06:53 AM
I thought the SKSs were fine due to their lack of detachable magazines. The criteria is simple; whatever weapons the Secretary of the Treasury defines as non-sporting, POOF! the BATF considers non-sporting and bans their import. The specific authority to do this comes from 923(d)(3) of Title 18, USC Chapter 44. On 7 July 1989, G. H.W. Bush directed and/or allowed his SecTreas to place any SKS with a detachable magazine, folding bayonet, or folding stock on the 'not approved for import' list.

As I understand things, the SKS's that are floating around were either a) brought in before 1989, when the SKS's were banned from import as non-sporting, or b) brought in as C&R eligible and allowed to bypass the non-sporting regs on a case-by-case basis, or c) do not possess the three unlawful features.

If you mod the SKS, you will almost certainly remove whatever protection it had under the import loopholes (not possessing the evil features, C&R status, etc.) and immediately place it in the sights of 922(r) of Title 18, USC Chapter 44. That's not a terrible thing - you just have to be willing to play the parts game to remain 922(r) compliant.

DPris
April 28, 2005, 09:09 AM
Cool,
Again, what parts do you think you need to change?
You can put a recoil pad on the SKS, a scope, a different stock (stay away from the folders), and change nothing else, or leave it as it comes & change nothing at all. With minor modifications you don't fall under the provisions of federal restrictions.
Denis

Husker1911
April 28, 2005, 09:27 AM
CoolRide, I'd suggest resisting the temptation to try detachable mags on your SKS. They're expensive, most require fitting to your rifle, and only function so-so. OTOH, the original stripper clips holding ten rounds work just dandy. Once you learn the proper method of charging the rifle's magazine with the stripper clips, things work quite well. FWIW. Good luck.

rbernie
April 28, 2005, 10:24 AM
You can put a recoil pad on the SKS, a scope, a different stock (stay away from the folders), and change nothing else, or leave it as it comes & change nothing at all. With minor modifications you don't fall under the provisions of federal restrictions.This is true, but only to a point.

If the SKS is a Norinco or Russian sans bayonet (with or without the lug), then you can modify it without issue until you add any one of the three 'banned' features. For example - if you choose to add a folding bayonet or a detachable magazine, then you'll have to make the rifle 922(r) compliant. But if you just swap out the stock or add a scope - you should be fine.

If you have a Norinco or Russian SKS that has the bayonet or duckbill removable magazines, either it was brought in prior to 1989 or it's a post-89 import that was modified after importation. This example most definitely needs to be 922(r) compliant regardless of what you do with it, unless you can prove that the rifle was a pre-89 import or you remove the evil feature(s).

If you're one of the lucky dogs that actually owns a SKS-M with AK-style detachable mags, I believe that you're OK to do anything you want because by definition your rifle was imported prior to 1989 and isn't subject to the import restrictions.

Finally, if the SKS in question is a Yugo 59 or 59/66 then you really need to be careful. These rifles avoided the import ban silliness by being brought in under C&R aegis. The BATF has intermittantly ruled that ANY mods to them renders their C&R status null-n-void. This means that the BATF *could* require 922(r) compliance for a Yugo that simply had the stock swapped out. If in doubt for any of the C&R-imported SKS's (or any other C&R import rifle, for that matter) - always write the BATF and ask them to provide a specific ruling. They will do so, and you can take their response to the bank as your legal defense.

novus collectus
April 28, 2005, 11:39 AM
you can modify it without issue until you add any one of the three 'banned' features. For example - if you choose to add a folding bayonet or a detachable magazine, then you'll have to make the rifle 922(r) compliant.
I'm not positive, but I think it is two added banned feature in addition to a detachable magazine. I think that one additional feature may be o.k. if it doesn't already have a bayonet or a grenade launcher and it still has it's non-thumbhole stock. The "SKS survivor" site is a pretty good one to look this stuff up, but even they don't know the law's intricacies when it comes to making an SKS a legal sporter without "playing the parts game" in the 922r.

DPris
April 28, 2005, 12:03 PM
Good points, Bernie.
I should have been more specific. The law was enacted more against the importation of the dreaded "assault rifles" with specific features like the pistolgrip, bayonet lug, detachable magazine, and flash suppressor. The SKS doesn't have those in its normal form. There are some specific aspects to the SKS, such as the bayonet & so on after the legislation was passed.
Current Yugo SKS rifles are a different ballgame, as you noted, coming in under C&R status.
Mostly I was trying to address the original question about when parts would have to be changed. Parts counts came up in response, and I was trying to clarify with Cool what he was talking about before he might have gotten more confused.
They don't have to be changed, the rifles can be left as purchased.
Denis

rbernie
April 28, 2005, 12:03 PM
I'm not positive, but I think it is two added banned feature in addition to a detachable magazine. The 'number of evil features' test was for the now-expired 1994 assault weapons ban. The 1989 import ban, as far as I know, did not take into account a sum total of any evil features - it simply specified that all SKS's with any of the three specific evil features (folding bayonet, detachable magazine, or folding stock) may not be imported. The C&R import of the Yugo's bypasses this restriction, but only at the expense of having to be kept in C&R state.

coolridelude
April 28, 2005, 07:26 PM
thanks for the help i just want to buy one and shoot the most put on a scope. i have read a lot of post and i came to the conclusion that i had to change parts before i could use it or take it out. now i know that i can just buy it as is and shoot. thanks. :D thanks also Denis for making it clear to me.

jefnvk
April 28, 2005, 07:57 PM
If you get a Yugo, they already have a recoil pad on them.

If you scope it, try something other than the reciever cover replacement. The one I had (before being notified that it was illegal) dodn't work very good.

http://www.victorinc.com/SKS-FAQ.html#_Toc98250439 Try that for information

DPris
April 28, 2005, 08:22 PM
Good luck, Cool.
Buy one & shoot the bejabbers out of it.
Denis

Moe Mentum
April 28, 2005, 09:14 PM
Just buy one and shoot it. Why put tons of money into it, use the parts money for ammo.

novus collectus
April 28, 2005, 09:16 PM
If you scope it, try something other than the reciever cover replacement. The one I had (before being notified that it was illegal) dodn't work very good
Not neccessarily illegal for a couple of possible reasons, but I will only mention one. If it is an imported replacement part that had the scope mount added here in America, it may be legal. Apparently, (according to the website you have linked) it is considered a replacement part (like replacing a cracked stock) that is part of the origional configuration and it does not violate the C&R status when you mount a scope on the replacement part. This is assuming that the cover is made outside of America though. Yet it may still apply to a domesticaly manufactured replacement part because I did not see that mentioned in the website you linked either.

jefnvk
April 29, 2005, 12:23 AM
Again, I have the letter from the ATF saying it is illegal. If I had it with me at college, I'd scan it. I am going by their response, beause I'm sure their response is on file if I should ever get caught with a scoped SKS ( :rolleyes: big threat there)

novus collectus
April 29, 2005, 06:03 AM
What exactly did you ask the ATF in your letter and how was it worded? (I want to learn from your experience)

railroader
April 29, 2005, 08:26 AM
I have a factory scoped paratrooper sks and it is legal with a dragunav stock. I also have seen letters on the sks forum from the batf that said scopes were fine on c&r sks rifles if the evil features are removed such as the bayonet and grenade launcher they just wouldn't be c&r anymore. Mark

novus collectus
April 29, 2005, 09:10 AM
railroader,
If you can, could you link us to those letters on the forums or let us know where to search for them?

dolanp
April 29, 2005, 09:37 AM
The bottom line is if you just want to shoot it you don't need to do anything. It is perfectly legal the way it is sold. Mounting a scope on it is not a problem either.

steelersfan0000
April 30, 2005, 01:02 PM
Right out of the store you really dont need to change any parts it will be pefectly legal to shoot just out of the box. The Sks is also a very good choice for a gun. Very Reliable. www.aimsurplus.com has them starting at 120$ I think.

Sturm
May 1, 2005, 05:05 PM
Everything has probably been addressed here so I just thought I would talk about my own SKS. Everybody was buying them 10 years ago, but they were also raving about some of them. I waited, guess I'm slow on trends. In 98, I went to a gunshow at the world famous Rattlesnake Round-up over in Sweetwater and my shootin' partner and I both bought new unissued Norinco SKS rifles that had already had the wood stocks changed to very good Butler Creek polymer, for $150 each because I couldn't get a group rate for just 2 rifles. These were not meant to be closet commando rifles, just shooters with the occasional use for short range Deer or Hogs. Still, I wasn't quite as excited as I would have been buying a good used bolt action rifle.

First outing at the range changed that. Fired Super-X to evalute a possible Deer load and mostly shot S&B. I really liked it! Stayed skeptical about Wolf that was still in the white box then and speaking of WhiteBox, the Winchester FMJ didn't stack up against the S&B. Well, I began to use the Wolf a little more often because I could find it locally and it was only around $3 a box. Seems like it has progressively gotten better, or maybe my prejudice has declined and allowed me concentrate on shootin' it instead of blastin' with it.

Went to the range yesterday to shoot several guns and took the SKS. The Wolf shot very well and I fired the best groups I have ever gotten with the rifle. Might mention that I'm 48 and no longer posses better than 20-20 vision, I'm waiting for group sizes to double before I resort to wearing Glasses! I don't see contacts in my future.

Anyway, best group of the day and in my experience with this rifle was a 5 round opensighted, 50 yard group of 1.16". I only had five rounds of the FMJ load that provided the group and about 150 of the 122 gr. HP. So, I was relived to say the least, to find that the HP was just as accurate on the whole and I didn't shoot a whole lot more because it was getting dark and we needed to evalute some pistol handloads for flash in low light and in the dark. I don't handload for the SKS, because it has been hard on cases and with the price of Wolf, there's no advantage there and I'm not sure that I would improve anything accuracy wise either! Thought I might load something with a softpoint for Deer and forget about the brass at some point, but I would still need to fire quite a few rounds to find the best handload for this rifle. I'll just stick with the Wolf and if I take it out during Deer Season, I'll just buy Super-X or Remington Hunting ammo that still shoots to the same point of aim.

I'll close in telling you that my decision to buy a Norinco was influenced by Shooting Times gunwriter, Layne Simpson who wrote an article in 94 and said these new unissued Norincos were as good as any SKS out there. 5 rounds into 1.16", opensighted at 50 yards is good enough for me and no doubt many of you have done better! BTW, the only modification this rifle has seen is the addition of a sling and recently painting the front post flourescent orange (worthwile evidently!);)