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Bass Man
April 22, 2005, 07:14 PM
I have a 6mm Remington Model 660. It has a 20" barrel and a wood stock. What should the felt recoil be? It felt about as hard as my 12 ga with a 3" magnum turkey load in it. I shot about 5-10 shots and my shoulder was sore. I haven't shot a .243 win but have been told by several people that is not a kicker at all. I am using handloaded 75 gr. V-Max with 38 grains of Reloder 15 and Winchester large rifle primers. Does anyone have a 660 or even a 6mm that can give me a comparison?

Long Path
April 22, 2005, 07:25 PM
660's (and 600's) are notoriously hard-kicking rifles, because of the light weight and the shape of the stocks. The kick from the 6mm should be identical to the .243 in a given rifle. In this case, the kick is not the caliber-- it's the rifle.

Here's the thing-- it's not a bench rifle or a target rifle; it's a hunting rifle, and is meant to be carried, and then fired accurately once you've gotten to the game, without having worn yourself out by packing in a 9 lb rifle. And for that, it's an awesome rig. In the field, from field positions, I promise you that you'll never notice the kick when squeezing one off. But those sight-in sessions from the bench can be pretty tough, no? :) So do the sensible thing; be a sissy.

I'm 6'5", 275 lbs, and am well-padded. I shoot magnums for breakfast and beg for seconds. I STILL, for all that, feel no compunctions about using a sissy bag or a recoil pad for sight-in sessions off the bench, even for an intermediate caliber.

Bass Man
April 22, 2005, 07:36 PM
I've got a co-worker who criticized me for wanting a sissy pad after shooting my first clays but he won't own a semi-hard kicking gun. I have a 870 wingmaster now and the kick isn't bad at all. I think we had some hunting shells that first time we were getting rid of.

I've thought about getting one of those slip on recoil pads for the gun and then I won't have to worry about it in the field either. Does a gun get that heavy if you have a sling on it? I've only carried my Savage 93 w/ bull barrel once but I didn't have a sling and it was terrible.

Rustic
April 22, 2005, 08:02 PM
I have no 600/660 experience, but my old 700ADL in 6mm was very comfortable to shoot, even with its stock metal buttplate. I suspect the lighter weight, muzzle blast from the short barrel and perhaps the design of the stock all conspire to hurt you. Going for max velocity will take a toll also.

Suggestions: add a good pad (kickeez, limbsaver) after a trial run with a slip-on. A good stock guy may be able to alter pitch or cast as well. It may help to use a Past or other pad on your shoulder, too.

I see you are using lighter bullets, but you may want to adjust your charges or try managed-recoil rounds. Some weight could be added fore and aft, but it'd be no fun to carry all day. If you are able to get away from the bench and shoot from positions you're likely to use in the field, you may notice recoil a lot less.

If you find something that helps, I hope you will let us know and save pain for others. Good luck.

Mannlicher
April 22, 2005, 08:36 PM
Your 6MM Remmy has felt recoil? If so, its the first one I have ever heard of that does. Mine kicked about like a .30 carbine, ie, virtually no felt recoil at all.

Death from Afar
April 22, 2005, 09:33 PM
I vaguely recall seeing a 660 and was struck by the shape of the stock and the weight. It would be uncomforatbale to fire. Be a sissy , as was suggested and get a recoil pad.

If you continue to get abused by it, you will develope a flinch and your shooting will go down, big time, and take a long time to recover.

Mike Irwin
April 22, 2005, 11:50 PM
"Your 6MM Remmy has felt recoil?"

Try shooting it in the Model 600 sometime, and you'll understand just how much weight and stock shape affect felt recoil.

The only rifle I've ever shot that has been WORSE for amplifying felt recoil is the Winchester Model 95.

Mike Hull
April 23, 2005, 12:28 PM
What was said above, the design of the buttstock is not real good, plus there might be one other thing. You might be holding incorrectly when firing.

Pull the rifle in tight to your shoulder, and have a good cheek weld when you touch one off. If it's still uncomfortable, get a deccelerator recoild pad, and have it installed. :D

WIN71
April 23, 2005, 12:53 PM
In 1965 I bought a used 600 in .243. Eventially thru the stock away and put on a full length Fajan. That improved both the looks and the felt recoil. As for the mod. 95 it too is nasty, even in 30-40 krag. But the real bummer for me was a win. mod. 88 in 308. Got so sick of it I sold it to my best friends husband. HeHeHe,
Ron

Bass Man
April 23, 2005, 04:52 PM
I want to put put on a recoil pad but the gun is my father-in-laws. I borrowed it until I can get my own. It also really needs a trigger job too. He said I could keep it as long as I like but with the recoil and trigger I will be saving for one as fast as possible.

If you were getting one would you get a 6mm Rem. or a .243 Win.? I will mostly shoot paper and stuff coyote size and smaller, but I want to have it if I ever want to go deer hunting. I would really like a .204 or .17 rem but they aren't for deer.

Mannlicher
April 23, 2005, 05:01 PM
Mike,

I had a 600 in .350 Rem Mag. THAT was felt recoil. lol I kept it two seasons, could not shoot it well, and sold it. I believe its up in Alaska now.
I have a Winchester Model 70 in .458 that felt easier on the shoulder than that darn Remington.

Big-Foot
April 23, 2005, 08:00 PM
I've never held a 600/660 but I did a search and looked at several pics of a couple. Besides the weight and cartridges it was offered in, what about the stock made it so unfriendly?

Ozzieman
April 23, 2005, 08:14 PM
Every one here is right, its not the cal its the gun.
The ruger has the kick of a light rem 700 in 223 nothing more but the 600 was quite a bit more.
If it bothers you have the stock shortened and a pad added.
But what I would do is shoot it untill he stoped hurting.
Try to shoot 50 rounds of 30-06 in an O3-A3 with a standard metal but plate in 30 minutes, a 6mm will feel like a 22

Vic303
April 23, 2005, 08:32 PM
BassMan, just buy a good quality slip on recoil pad. Search Cabelas database for one. Probably run you $30 m/l.

Long Path
April 24, 2005, 08:01 PM
The slip-on butt pads or a Past recoil pad (that you wear on your shoulder) should make all the difference, but remember to practice off the bench, too. When standing up on your hind legs and allowing your shoulder to roll with the recoil, it will feel much lighter.

I might add that one of the biggest pains that comes from a Remington 600 is to the eyes. ;) If they hadn't been so dadgum handy...

Ozzieman
April 24, 2005, 08:36 PM
They will extend the length of the gun and that could be a problem. I am 5'8" and the Ruger was too long for my arms. That is to put the stock of the gun into the inside of your elbo with your arm along the gun and you should be able to get your first part of your index finger fully on the trigger, if not and your arm is short this could be one of the reasions your gun kicks so much, you cant get the gun into your sholder but its setting on the out side of your sholder.
That was the problem with my Ruger. I had 3/4 of an inch cut off and it shot so much better that it was worth the money I spent.
BUt do try the stock pad, and check the over all length of the gun.

Mike Irwin
April 24, 2005, 11:22 PM
"I had a 600 in .350 Rem Mag."

Shot one of those many times over the years. A friend had one, and we used to shoot it.

He downloaded it to power levels more in line with the .35 Remington, and too many deer with it over the years.

With full .350 loads? Neither of us wanted to shoot it more than 5 or 10 times in an afternoon.

Picher
April 25, 2005, 04:58 AM
The 6mm Rem recoil is very quick due to the high velocity of the round. It really bugged me compared to my deer rifles, especially since I was used to holding my .22-250 lightly.

Try a slip-on pad if you can't get a decelerator. If you can't afford a Past Recoil pad for your shoulder, take a leg from an old pair of jeans and sew the bottom up. Fill it with sand so it's still soft and can mould to your shoulder. Sew above the sand and leave a foot or so of pantleg above the sandbag to drape over the shoulder, then cut the rest off. Under a jacket, the bag should stay put pretty well for bench shooting and you'll be quite comfortable shooting about any heavy-recoiling rifle without pain.

John

slabsides
April 25, 2005, 08:30 PM
John I have to laugh, remembering many times when we were shooting side by side: I with my 700ADL 6mm and you with your Savage .30-06. I was glad I had the LIGHTER kicking rifle!

I have never fired a 6mm 600, but the stock is much straighter than the 700's, which has a back-sloping cheekpiece that helps tame recoil. And the little carbine is lighter, too.
Hot 6mm loads have a loud report. Inexperienced shooters (we ALL were, once!) sometimes confuse the pain of loud blast with pain of recoil. Truth to tell, even the fastest 6mm/.243 has little 'kick' to it. About a third that of a .30-06 in guns of the same weight, as I recall.
As for the choice between 6mm Remington and .243, it depends on whether you handload. I have always preferred the Remington round for its longer neck, and slightly larger powder capacity with most fuels. The .243 is still popular and many firms build them. The 6mm is pretty much obsolete; even Remington chambers for the Winchester round rather than their own, today. As for ballistics, there isn't much difference between the two calibers. Today, I'd recommend going with the .243 just for its availability and resale value.

Picher
April 26, 2005, 06:15 AM
Slab,

As you remember, I shot chucks with my '06 for about 8 years or so and didn't mind the recoil much. We didn't have range finders or powerful scopes (mine was a Weaver K 2.5) and when the distance was a little long, relied on spotting the bullet strikes and correcting for the next shot. We took chucks out to 450 yards that way. Sometimes, if the bullet hit a little low, it would ricochet enough to get the chuck. We were using 150 grain Rem. Bronze Pt. handloads much of the time, but the 125 Sierra was better when there wasn't much wind.

Then I got the .22-250 and loved it, but found it lacking in the wind, so bought the 6mm, Rem 700 Varmint Special. It shot very well, but was too heavy to carry the several miles we'd walk while chuck hunting. I sold it and got another Rem 700 ADL in .22-250 that's still here.

Although it never bothered me from the bench or offhand, the 6mm seemed to come back pretty hard when shooting prone at varmints with just a tee shirt for padding. My 90 grain reloads were pretty hot and the rifle didn't have a recoil pad. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

BTW, I now have three varmint rifles. The others are the Tikka sporter in .223 and my customized Rem 700 SS .270 Win in a Sendaro stock. Yes, I've hunted and killed woodchucks with the .270, using 90 grain Sierra HP handloads, just to say I did it. The chucks didn't complain about my being over-gunned.

John

artsmom
April 26, 2005, 04:59 PM
I am prone to think that problems with recoil with anything under a .30 caliber magnum is psychological and / or a faulty shooting position. The following from Jeff Cooper:

Muzzle brakes do work, but since there is no such thing as a free lunch, increased blast effect varies with the luncher. A shooter who is overly sensitive to recoil may be more disturbed by the racket than by the push, so a muzzle brake should be no help to him. Within limits the recoil effect of rifle cartridges is pretty negligible. I have noted this to my satisfaction over decades of observation of all sorts of shooters. The renowned gun maker Fred Wells of Prescott, Arizona, specializes in great big rifles, and he states flatly that recoil effect on the shooter is 85 percent mental. I cannot quote an exact percentage, but I do agree with the idea. Recoil effect is something you can rise above if you go about it right. Painting your butt plate green, together with proper mystic incantation, will probably do as much to beat the bump as any other device or system.

Ask someone who is knowledgeable about SHOOTING (not necessarily about guns, as they aren't mutually inclusive) to critique your style before you start spending money on gadgets and hardware.

Jseime
May 2, 2005, 10:02 PM
If you were getting one would you get a 6mm Rem. or a .243 Win.?

.243 .243 .243. the 6mm remington does have some better velocity potential but the .243 is more inherently accurate and ammo is much easier to find if your not going to hand load. the rifles are also more common.