View Full Version : Auto fun with FN & friends (long)

April 24, 1999, 03:24 PM
I belong to Mid-Carolina Rifle Club in Columbia, SC, and today, we held an open house to celebrate our new $60K range improvements. FN, Glock, and several RKBA groups were invited to attend, as well as the general public. Glock was letting people try all their models (except the machinepistol), and IPSC, IDPA, & the SASS were showing folks what they're all about.

FN demo'd everything in its mil/LEO line except the M16. This was the first public demo of a pistol they will be releasing next month, the M49. It's a .40, poly frame, SS top end, 14 rd, barrel looks to be about 4". Looks a lot like the Smiths, with a touch of Glock & SIG thrown in.

Next, the Five SeveN pistol in 4.7mm. The cartridge is designed to leave the pistol in excess of 2100fps, and capable of penetrating TL IV body armour out to 200m. Bullet weight of 32 gr. Ammo & guns available only to military & LEOs. No noticable recoil with or without suppressor. Next, they demo'd the P90 subgun in the same caliber. With the longer barrel (10"?), the bullet achieves velocities of over 2300fps. They had 2 on hand, and the one shooting subsonic ammo (63 gr @ 1100fps) with the suppressor kept jamming. The suppressor is designed to be taken on & off with just a 90 degree turn while pulling it back against the gun. It's very effective, the bolt made more noise than the shots. When fired in unsuppressed mode, it cooked. Last demo of it was a sustained full mag (50 rds) of tracer, every rd of which stayed in the black of a B47 target at 50 yds. However, one bullet spun off to the top of the berm & started a grassfire, which was quickly extinguished by RO's with shovels (range is in an old sandpit.)

Next up, 2 versions of the M249 SAW, the Para & the SPW (Special Purpose Weapon.) The Para has a 15" barrel & collapsible stock. The SPW (for which this was also the first public demo) has the same features, but has been further lightened so that unloaded weight is under 6#, and has been redesigned so that it does not accept M16 mags, only the 100 rd belt-in-a-box. It was built by FN at the request of gov't agencies which they refused to ID. (SEALs, CIA, who knows? Who cares?) The Para version had some problems, but the SPW ran through 2 boxes of ammo without a glitch in either 3-5 rd bursts, or sustained bursts. I like that one.

Next, the M240B, a .308 medium MG to replace the M60 (about damn time, too.) I'm pleased to report that we may have a winner here, folks. The 2 examples each ran through 2 250 rd belts w/o a hiccup, short & long bursts. I'm impressed, especially compared to the M60, which I've heard can hardly fire 1 consecutive round without jamming.{G}

Last, FN demo'd a quick change barrel adaptaion they've come up with for the Browning M2 .50. A 100 rd belt was fired, then the barrel changed in about 3 seconds, a second belt loaded, and then firing resumed. No more headspacing, etc.

FN did have one surprise they didn't tell us about-a couple of the targets had small explosive charges on the back. That was neat.

After FN cleared out, a private Class III manufacturer whose name I didn't get demo'd a plethora of weapons. M16's; M16 .22 LR conversion; CAR15 auto converted to .40S&W with an integral 10" suppressed barrel; Tec 9 machinepistol with a handgrip added at about 10 degrees above the horizontal to the left side of the barrel shroud; Thompson SMG; AK SMG w/75 rd drum; Port Said SMG; a couple of Browning M1919's; A Daewoo K3, a copy of the M249 but with a higher cyclic rate, about 900rpm; suppressed 10/22's; and the finale, a GE .308 Minigun mounted on an authentic 1886 Gattling gun carriage (modified, of course.) When the Mini fired, 600 rds went downrange in about 1.5 seconds. That's the closest I've ever come to having an orgasm without having sex.{VBG}

One interesting thing I noticed-the gun which seemed the loudest and had the most concussion was the AK subgun. I was about 15 feet behind and slightly to the left of the shooter, and my pants legs were flapping with the blast. I was much closer to the Mini when it fired, and didn't notice it. Even the M2 didn't do it. Strange.

The only fly in the ointment was a last minute decision by SLED to not let anyone other than manufacturers, LEOs, or military personel shoot the auto weapons. SC is not a Class III state, and SLED (State Law Enforcement Division) decided to interpret "to possess" to mean "touch." I guess our next big legislative effort is going to be to try to bring SC into the Class III fold. (Just as an aside, one can own a suppressor under state law, just not auto's or sawed-off's.)

Well, that's about it. If you haven't got it figured out by now, I've never seen full-auto in person, and I'm now hooked. Damn, now I've GOT to get to Knob Creek.

Shoot straight regards, Richard

[This message has been edited by 45King (edited April 24, 1999).]

April 25, 1999, 10:19 AM
If that made you readjust your trousers then Knob Creek will put you into sex-induced comatose state (ala the movie [iBrainstorm[/i].
Thanks for the report on the new weapons and adaptations for the existing systems. I'm sure you were hating every minute being "forced" to cover this as the unofficial TFL reporter on the scene. :)
The Creek shoot/shows are the second weekend in April and the second weekend in October.

April 25, 1999, 04:11 PM
I only regret that I had but six hours to give...{G}
Having never been there and only read about it, forgive me for asking a dumb question, but I can never remember; is Knob Creek in KY or TN? Or somewhere else? (CRS strikes again!)

Shoot straight regards, Richard

April 27, 1999, 10:26 AM
No such thing as a stupid question. Though I may give a stupid answer, but that's an entirely different subject :).
Knob Creek is basically between Louisville and Fort Knox Kentucky.

April 27, 1999, 10:42 AM
Don't know if it's the same weapon but SAR had a writeup on a MiniGun mounted on a Gattling Gun chassis last year. I'll have to dig it up. This weapon also shows up at Knob Creek.
The loudest and most concussive weapon I've seen at the Creek was a Barrett semiauto 50 BMG. They have a huge muzzlebrake ala McMillan.
That Para SAW sure sounds interesting. Would make one heck of a CCW, no? :D
Were you able to get an upclose look at the Five SeveN? I've heard some good things about it. Some of the members here (sorry, senior members) have fired the FN P90. They all liked it if I recall correctly. If you're interested in their comments, use the search function. We talked about it last fall.
Also can't wait to see the new 40, the M49, you talked about.

David Schmidbauer
April 27, 1999, 12:15 PM

You will notice that I am purposely avoiding commenting in this thread. The reason is that I have no Comments...



Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

April 29, 1999, 04:44 PM
Yeah, the Para sounds good as a CCW, but only if you favor trench coats.<VBG> (How the hell do you guys do those smiley faces?)
I did get a close look at the Five SeveN, but no one was allowed to handle. It looks pretty impressive, and any handgun which can defeat TLIV BA out to 200m has got to have something going for it. I'll stick with my 1911, though.
Charlie Petty came down from Charlotte a few months ago to attend a press conference at FN, & I think he did an article about the P90 & the pistol for GUNS or AMERICAN HANGUNNER, I don't remember which. I'll see if I can locate it.

Schmit, how many times do I have to say it:

I'M SORRY, IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!!! (Ya skinny-arsed friggin' former jarhead, ya.)

Shoot straight regards, Richard

April 30, 1999, 10:20 AM
I'm a cowboy shooter, so I have a duster :)
SAR had an in-depth review of the P90 and it's suppressor a while back also.
Creating the smiley faces is done just like normal but this UBB code changes it to the face. Click on the UBB Code link on the page and it will explain all the neat faces that can be made. :) ;0 :( etc.
I've got to admit I really like my 1911s also. You should come on down to HS chat. We really talk up the 1911 and God's Armorer. The address is up in a handgun thread titled gun chats, I believe (to lazy to go back and look).

Just looked in UBB Code area, that's other neat stuff. The faces are in the faq area.

[This message has been edited by fal308 (edited April 30, 1999).]

May 1, 1999, 08:26 AM
45King - you heard pretty close to the truth about the M-60... It loves to jam. The only reason I can think of is that most M-60s are just plain worn out. While in the service, most of the barrles we had were practicly shot out.

I saw on the discovery channel a special about Navy Seals and Other SF groups... The showed a group of Seals laying down some angry sustained covering fire. Several of these Water Thugs were packing short barrel M-60s - not E3 variants - shorter than those... And they were ROCKING... In fact they were ROCKING so hard I was holding a lighter up in reverance! It was most impresive... and I had never seen anything like a 60 (aka HOG) perform like that! I want one! These 60s are of course specialy built and tuned... Which just reinforces a belief of mine... Give your Gun Smith a HUG. You want him to be on your side!


July 27, 1999, 08:24 PM
I live in Spartanburg, SC during the fall-spring (Wofford), but visit Columbia quite often. Without having to spend an evening typing directions, where in Columbia is the Mid-Carolina Rifle Club and how does one join?
Also, where can I find information about the criteria and procedures necessary for legal ownership of suppressors in SC? Thanks in advance.

Thank you for your time,

John Coleman

Daniel Watters
July 27, 1999, 08:58 PM
John: There is a map at http://www.ifx.net/~popgun/sc_mcrc.htm . The map isn't oriented North-South, but you'll get the general idea. Just come down I-26 from Spartanburg towards Charleston and follow the directions.

The contact number is: (803) 796-1009

Membership is $100 per year, and you must be a member of the NRA or GOA.

July 29, 1999, 08:17 PM
45King: If your plans to travel to the Creek in October come thru, come and visit me while there. I work on the sub gun range as a chief range officer, and also operate the subgun bowling pin match. I am currently president of American Class 3 Association, and have been around full auto for some time now. BTW, you can rent the GE mini gun there and run some rounds through it. If you get to the Creek on Friday I have a private BBQ on the sub range that is by invite only, this is your invite, bring a friend. The BBQ starts about 1700 and I furnish all the food.