why does every deer shot have to be huge?

[calvin62]

This year [2004] my son shot his first deer. it was a young doe and he was so proud I never seen him smile like that before. and I'm happier about then if I shot the world record. our experience in the woods was the best hunt of my life! but that started changing for him almost as soon as we left the woods. tI cant count the number of times we heard ;
[ little]
[just a doe]
[small]
[I would have let him go]
and many other similar things from people that just dont think how they are making him feel, people that should be patting him on the back

I'm still proud of him but he has started to feel bad because it's not a 12 pt buck, doesnt weigh 250 lbs, he didnt shoot it from 400 yds away,

when I started hunting any deer you shot was a great deer now we ,magazines , tv , and other hunters brainwashed by all the media hype are telling these kids if it's not big enough, if it doesn't score 200 b&c, if the rack isnt wider then the ears, somehow it's less of a trophy ,less of a kill, doesnt count in their eyes .

how do we expect these kids to learn the art of killing a deer. if they are suppose to hold out for that once in a lifetime buck as their very first deer.
how do they learn what you can get away with when a deer is in front of them. how do they learn to control buck fever. HOW DO THEY LEARN !!

When you say anything but praise to that young [or old] hunter with his first deer, remember your first deer and how you felt then and dont s**t on their feelings!!

we hunt in east central wisconsin and have some of the most pressured and educated deer around . so telling him to wait for a large buck is ridiculous when your lucky to get one good shot oportunity a year!

so you trophy hunters that look down on our small puny deer go f**k yourself because the taste great and its suppose to be the hunt not the size of the rack that count's!

[Ohio Annie]

Around my neck of the woods, we like does best because they are more tender and taste better, especially during the rut when bucks are so tough and gamey. All I want is a small apartment-freezer-sized doe. :)

[jerryd]

I have never been able to tell the difference in weight or sex when it has been on my plate!!! Maybe bragging rights?, they all taste good! :)

[FirstFreedom]

I agree. It's silly. Specially for a kid. Does are tasty! My buddy did shoot a TINY doe this year - like 35 pounds if lucky after gutting - he didn't even check it, since he was embarrassed. ANY deer (without spots) is good for a FIRST deer, or with a BOW! After that, they must be bigger than my akita dog during rifle season, is the only requirement.

[rbernie]

Within my lifetime, hunting for trophies has seemed to become more of a motivation for most than hunting for food. That means that you're going to run into an awful lot of folks who are gonna go out seeking big horns-or-antlers, and everything else (including learning how to actually hunt well) is secondary.

It's only natural that people are going to judge your kids' accomplishments based upon their personal criteria. Your job as a Dad (spoken as one who's also got the same job description) is to instill in your kid the proper amount of pride in his efforts and to make sure that he knows the pros and cons of what he's done. If you do that correctly, then all of the 'other stuff' becomes background noise.

[Hawkman]

We're running over with deer here in Georgia. Our license this year included 10 does and 2 bucks. Every year I shoot a doe, preferably one small enough to be easily field dressed and dragged out of the inaccessible spots I hunt and still fill the freezer. Forget trophy hunting. Your son did great! Don't let anyone take that away from him!

[calvin62]

I have the skull mount of every deer I have ever taken from doe fawns to a 12 pointer. when we did his skull mount I showed him it is bigger then my first deer. we discussed and I hope that he does understand that a clean kill and having fun is more impotant then the size of the deer.

But the back ground noise is awfull loud to a young teenage boy. especialy when it comes from hunters and people he looks up to who unintensionely say things that down play his achievment.

[Abby]

That sucks! (The comments, that is, not anyone's non-trophy deer).

I'm a firm believer that young/beginning hunters need to be ENCOURAGED at every step, whether it's a boy and his doe, or a grown man with his first squirrel!

Anyway, good on your son! He hunted, he succeeded, he brought home a deer!

May all the rude hunters you encountered step in dog poo while dragging out their monster deer, then track it into their trucks! :D

[Rojoe67]

Calvin, Your darn right.......heck I guess my son and I think a lot like you do. Your boy should be very happy to have taken a deer. My son and I sat for 3 days straight last year. I could tell he was getting worried he might not see anything. Then as luck had it, a doe came out and we took her. Wow, what a heck of a good payoff for some long time not seeing anything. It made the trip up north so special... I think some time us grown ups get a little over the top on the competition of "Look at that spread" and on and on. Your post is a good one as were the folks whom responded....

Enjoy the outdoors and savor every minute with your kid(s) while afield. If we are lucky when we are old and weak they will return the favor and take us out for a few great moments with Mother Earth and Mother Nature. :D

* As my son grows and matures, (I see a lot of me in him)... We often clash about daily life issues but come hunting time we seem to find a real bond that recharges the battery called life. -as my son matures, (I see a lot of him in me)..... Rojoe67 :)

[kjm]

In my neck of the woods, a doe- dressed out weighs between 59 and 64 lbs. I get to kill six a year and 2 spikes (really I can probably kill more spikes). I'm not in it for sport or bragging, I'm in it for meat and we rarely eat beef anymore.

[Jeff Loveless]

Calvin,
Calm down man. Your his Father, right now he looks up to you and your approval more than anyone else. He's also learning about people. I don't blame you for venting though.

My teenage daughter hunts with me. Actually she hunts by herself now, but we have sat together many times. I never got a deer when she was with me but we still had a good time. We get along better in the woods than at home sometimes! :rolleyes:

The last 2 years she has killed a doe. Fortunately we hunt in a club with folks that have some sense and don't act like your friends do.

The first year she set alone I encouraged her to shoot the first deer she wanted, buck or doe. This last year she wanted to wait for a buck, but as the season went on, after spending much patient time hunting, she finally took a doe and it was great. She has ambitions of killing a buck someday, naturally wants a BIG one. Don't we all! I get to experience something NO other human being in the world gets - I'm the first one to her when I hear her shoot. You can't beat that! So far, 2 shots 2 deer.

I really treasure the time and that she wants do some things we can enjoy and remember forever. You never know how long these things last - don't let some other people ruin it.

[calvin62]

jeff your right I was venting and it came out angrier then I intended. but my point did come across in it and hopefully some of the people that read this forum will think twice before they say something hurtfull to a young [or any] hunter about their deer kill. nice to have a place to vent though !!

[mete]

There's eatin' deer and there's braggin' deer. I'm a meat hunter and would rather have a doe than wait for a buck that never comes. The way to handle it is to thank the kid and congradulate him every time you eat that deer !!

[Double Naught Spy]

Not to worry, selective hunting pressures will eventually alter the population, culling the big bucks from the population prematurely and not allowing them as many opportunities to sire young. The result is that the smaller, not as often targeted bucks will be able to introduce a much greater amount of their genetic code into the population, gradually causing an overall decrease in the size of most animals.

[Rmouleart]

In my book thats called meat on the table, and mighty tasty meat I might add;),young and tender. I think some people are just jealous. Don't let them get to you, ask them were'e your deer. Good for your son,congrats, any deer downed is a trophy, some hunters hunt for years never to even cast there eye's on one. Tell your son to keep up the good work, Now its time to learn how to field dress a deer, now the real work is starting LOL. Take care and good hunting. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[MeekAndMild]

Calvin, welcome to TFL! That having been said, I think your son's deer was a good one. Its not the size of the deer that counts so much as the steadiness of the aim.

These last few years I have been concentrating on does a lot, their behavior, their habits...and methods to cook them. I can tell a lot of difference in meat between a doe and a buck and between little ones and big ones. The older the deer the longer it needs to be soaked in wine or the smaller it needs to be sliced to make it edible. I think your next step for your child is to make sure he knows how wonderful and tender, how tasty it is, until the last of it is gone from the freezer.

Then next year it might be good to tell the morons ahead of time that the only thing which keeps you from ripping them a new one is that you are too good to battle wits with the unarmed. :mad:

[Lonestar.45]

I think it's a shame when folks do that to a kid, especially when it's his first deer. It just ain't right. My first deer was a yearling doe, and that deer is more special to me than any of the nice bucks I've shot since, because it was my first. It's fine to rib a guy about shooting a little deer, heck, buddies do it to each other all the time. But not to a new hunter or a kid, I get ticked off when I hear stuff like that. Really, I think one of the worst things that can happen to a new hunter is for them to shoot a huge buck for their first deer. After that, they'll never be satisfied with anything else, and it kinda ruins them on hunting.

Sure, a big buck is nice, but there's no shame in taking a doe or smaller deer. They're great eating, and I've heard it said many times, "you can't eat the antlers". Heck, many of my most memorable hunts and best times, I never even pulled the trigger! It sounds like you've got the right attitude, and your son is lucky to have a dad that'll keep his head on straight.

[AKhunter]

Not to worry, selective hunting pressures will eventually alter the population, culling the big bucks from the population prematurely and not allowing them as many opportunities to sire young. The result is that the smaller, not as often targeted bucks will be able to introduce a much greater amount of their genetic code into the population, gradually causing an overall decrease in the size of most animals.

This is assuming that all animals have equal hunting pressure exerted upon them, ie., they are all in the open or otherwise accessible to hunting. This isn't how it works in actuality. What actually happens is that the younger (read inexperienced) and less cautious deer are more accessible to hunting pressure while the more cautious and in some cases *all* older deer are inaccessible due to becoming almost purely nocturnal. Also, there is a counter pressure in that larger animals are more likely to breed and to survive predatory activities throughout the year as opposed to the limited time of hunting season. A removal of predation and hunting pressure *has* been shown to decrease the size of deer within a population due to starvation pressure--smaller animals, while less efficient, do eat less.

AK

[Robert Garner]

First off
Congratulations to You and your son!
Whether its his first deer or whatever he accomplishes thru the coming yrs,
It should be enough that He has the Encouragement of his Father.and the Pride of his Mother,for him to judge himself by.
Yeah theres more than one kind of slob hunter, sad but true,be a good way to show him what not to aspire to right?
My partner and I were hunting a club lease, One young son,first time allowed out w/rifle took a very nice buck,10 or 12 points ,boy was puffed up as a red baloon,all the folk were proud,asking him where,how,and whaddya think? Stepped over and genuinely admired the buck, turned to the boy and said to him "that's a real nice deer,I'm Sorry" Well if he didn't de-flate!
His eyes got big enough to make it look so,and he asked why was I sorry?
Told him,"Son,I've been hunting for years,and aint never got one nice as him,
hope you don't hafta wait too long to get another that good."
The little fellah puffed right on up again!
Nothin nobody said to your boy meant half ,of what you said or did,well done!

[GUNSMOKE45441]

How many deer did the big shots have?? LOL!!
Someone that would say that to a kid isn't worth listening to in the first place.
Cogratulations to your son, and to you for taking him. :)

[Edward429451]

I laughed when I read your first post calvin! Thats funny. I like your attitude and think you're correct to feel that way.

Those guys that say that crap are the same guys who keep asking their wife if size really matters. Inferiority complex and ego problems. So caught up with 'being a MAN' and 'keeping up with the joneses' that they lose sight of whats good or important. They're glass is as they say, 1/2 empty.

[ATTICUS]

I know more than a few "big buck hunters" who haven't killed a deer in years.
After hearing a hundred stories of "letting that little one go" I've concluded that most of them are just lazy or afraid to kill one. :p
It's the hunt that counts. Your boy should be proud. As long as you brag on him, I'll bet the other comments don't matter all that much.

[Jseime]

from an ecological point of view harvesting the big bucks is better for the population but considering that there are way too many deer to begin with and a trophy buck wasnt the objective thats a good deer. i saw quite a few very small deer get shot this year and a few big ones too. i shot one of each and the little one is way better on the table. some guys only hunt the big ones but those guys eat more beef too nine years out of ten :D. i enjoy givin a guy a run about missing a deer or shooting a bambi that "really did look bigger" but its all in fun and i wouldnt do it to a kid who just shot his first deer especailly if he did it in an ethical manner and was happy with himself.

[JohnKSa]

from an ecological point of view harvesting the big bucks is better for the populationIf they're giving out doe tags then you can bet that harvesting does is plenty good for the population. There's a lot of money spent determining what tags to issue each year in each county. There's no way a blanket statement like the one you made can possibly be true in every locale.

[Rmouleart]

JohnKsa is right, there is many times where the doe to buck ratio is way to high, and outfitters ect... welcome doe's to be shot, this in tern makes the herd stronger, shooting out young bucks with bad genetics is often the way as well, don't want to mess up the good genetics right, this is proper Deer Management. Here in NH the southern areas have a extended doe season for that reason. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

[Boilermaker]

My recommendation would be to let him run the BBQ the first time you cook any of it(if you already haven't) and then you'll see him just like after he shot it or help him make some jerky out of it and take it to school with him, all his friends will think its the coolest(not to mention best tasting) thing at the time. I remember eating my first deer (a doe) and it was delicious, still to this day any deer I shoot tastes better to me than any gourmet meal. Not to mention if he got a good shot on it just keep bragging on him about how good his shot was.

[PaP]

Every shot you take has a story. Any time spent in the woods especially with your son is great. I have a large spike mounted on my wall because it was my first deer killed in my home state of Tennessee and because I was with good friends. I have taken plenty of small does to fill the freezer.

It's not all about the size of the trophy. Congrats to your son.

[N.H. Yankee]

3 words, macho, egotism, ignorant. I hunt N.H. where the deer population is 1 per square mile, guys hunt for a month straight without seeing a deer all season so any deer here is a good deer. I find some guys turn hunting into a macho competiton which is not why I hunt, also it can be dangerous if its the first one to score mentality. I have 3 trophy deer registered in N.H. (deer dressed out over 200lbs) and have shot others as small as 80lbs dressed. my hunting partner got one this year dressed at 55lbs and we didnt rag on him, he put in his time, he hunted hard and safe and he deserved to get a deer. I have seen this mentality, the years I got monsters no one knew except my immediate circle of friends, I dont have to brag and neither do the people I hunt with. I feel that hunting is more than a bragging sport and can belittle the sport especially to the ears of nonhunters. Comments like these hurt the sport and do not influence young ones to take up the sport. You can usually spot the idiots, they have a foot long dressing knife, when I see them in a coffee shop I wait till they leave and watch which direction they go in and I go the opposite direction.

[Steve499]

I process all our meat myself. My wife decided to start deer hunting 3 years ago and killed a small buck. When I wrapped the meat, I put her name on every package. Every time we had a meal from her deer, I praised her for providing it for us. I think year long congratulations from Dad will more than cancel out those negative comments made by less important (and more stupid) people.

Now this is just me, but I have suspected for years that a lot of those " I passed up" stories we hear from horn hunters just mean they really didn't have a chance to fill a tag at all. Like the joke, what's the Indian word for vegetarian?---Bad hunter!

[wyrdone]

When I hunt I actually avoid the older bucks and go for the younger does or bucks. Got a yearling buck this year that was nice a tender and not gamey at all. (Helped that he was butchered and on ice within 60 minutes of shooting.....got him in the back yard of my father's farm.)

I do hunt purely for meat though. I am not a trophy hunter (though I do harvest and use the antlers in all sorts of projects. My wife loves using the antler buttons I make for her (so simple to make using my drill press and bandsaw).

[range dog]

I hunt in west central Wisconsin. The group I'm in have been hunting there for over 40 years. We wieght all the deer we get. The average Doe 90 to 105 lbs dressed out. The avergae Buck 110 to 130 lbs. We shot some smaller and some bigger. All of our boys started hunting deer when they were 12 years old. Anything they shot for their first deer was a good hunt. Starting with the second deer we try to get them to see the difference in size of the deer in the woods. This is something that needs to be learned by experience. The more time you spend in the woods the more knowledge you should gain. We all would love to shoot the Big Buck but, that is not reality. I went 33 years before I shot my first buck with a gun and the last 10 years of that I refused to shoot a doe. I wanted a buck gun hunting. I'm very successful bow hunting as far as bucks ar concerned. I just don't see them gun hunting. Was my first Buck a Monster Buck? No but, it was the biggest buck I ever shot with a gun. A safe hunt is a good hunt. The taking of game is secondary.

[Luthier]

My first deer was a yearling that weighed 68 pounds dressed out. Shot with a 45-70 from about 60 yards. I was happier than all get out! Dang thing tasted awesome too.

[keano44]

The taking of does is also an important management tool, which youngsters need to be taught.
This may be one of the reasons fewer young people are getting into hunting, and the shooting sports.
My son's first deer may have spoiled him. He was 14 years old, and I had been invited on a hunt by a vendor (from my work) to a ranch in central Texas. Long story short, my son also got to come. Basically, the feeder went off, the deer came, the rancher pointed out the one to shoot, my son shot, and I video taped the whole thing. While I appreciate the luck in getting to experience this first deer kill with my son, and don't want to take away anything from his experience, I wanted him to understand that this wasn't the same thing as really working for and earning your deer. This season, he hunted with me at my deer lease. We didn't always see deer. He finally killed an 85 pound doe on the last either sex weekend. He was in a stand by himself and did it on his own. He got to experience the nervousness, and "buck fever", and the pressure of making the shot, all on his own. He got to help load it on the four wheeler, and skin it back at camp. He got to get his hands bloody, and even got his face bloodied (initiation). No one at camp made him feel bad about his deer. Killing does is an important part of our management plan. I was very proud of him, and he was as proud of himself for this deer as he was for the big nine-point buck from the ranch hunt. I think he understood the difference; this was "real" hunting.

[Bic]

Calvin
You've done a great job, just something to consider if u haven't already is a diary. I purchased our camp and property in 96 and have kept a log at the camp. The log is filled out every night before bed. I always encourage the kids to make their entry for the day, this log has become priceless, first squirel, partridge, and hopefully deer this year for them. The past few years I've been fortunate enough to have fawns come out first. You know the ones that are so tender on the plate. I've chewed on the big ones long enough, mind you if you marinate them long enough there fine, but I still prefer the little ones, congrats to your son on his first harvest.
Seriously consider that log though, you'll be glad, your son will be glad, and perhaps his son, that you did. ;)
Bic

[Malamute]

People come here to Wyoming to hunt trophy deer and elk. I wait til doe season to even go out most of the time. I like doe and young buck meat better.

[jefnvk]

The only time you'll hear me say 'too small' is if I am hunting a deer management area (some around here, one side has to have 4 points, IIRC), or if my general tag is filled (two Buck tags, one can be used on anything, the other has to have 4 points on one side)

We have a saying. 'If it's brown, it's down', but obviously not refering to the UPS man. Once I have a deer or two down that season, maybe I'll start worrying about size.

[locked'n'cocked]

there is nothing better than doe meat but nothin beats a big buck on your wall :D. me, id be happy to have either. your son shoud be proud to have taken his first deer, no matter what it is.

[artsmom]

Congratulations on the deer!

You are just dealing with bad manners. Most of the guys who turn up their noses at a doe would shoot a little forkhorn, whose rack could be covered with a teacup to say "I got my buck!"

Trophy hunters are another matter, since a trophy hunter is judged by what HE won't shoot, not by what he does shoot. Most real trophy hunters are delighted to see someone bring in a doe instead of a 2 1/2 year old buck. I have a lot of respect for a guy who figures he will only see a "shootable" deer every three years or so, and is content with his lot.

I shoot the first legal deer I see, usually. Yearling, doe, big, little, it doesn't matter to me, I will lgenerally leave the antlers to those who appreciate them more than me, I just like making a good shot that anchors the deer and doesn't ruin any meat.

[taralon]

I'm going to have to go with the general feeling on this one.

I don't go out every year to get a deer/big game animal It is usually every other, every fifth year. I was out in the woods one year with a female elk liscense and an over the counter black bear. Well I'd been meaning to take a bear for years, but since I was principly out for elk, I passed up the bear I came up on the first day. Long story short, 2 weeks in the field and I didn't again get close enough to an elk or a bear to get a good shot off.

Better to take the chance you have than to let it slip away. After all a doe in the freezer is better tasting than an unused tag. Better memory too :) .

[Mike Irwin]

Some people are fixated on trophy sized animals, envisioning a den with lots of Boone & Crockett type glassy-eyed mounts staring down at them as they sit reading the paper in front a fire while sipping 100-year-old brandy.

Me?

I went for the younger, smaller critters.

Better meat. Not as much, but tastier.

[Fred Hansen]

why does every deer shot have to be huge?Because some men are angry that their underpants are always way too roomy up front, and they have to take it out on somebody.

[MeekAndMild]

I went into a pawn shop not too long ago and they had maybe a dozen deer heads on the walls for sale. To tell the truth they were really kind of creepy.

[jsinon]

Tell your son, "job well done",and give him a pat on the back for all of us. There is nothing wrong with a nice rack on a deer, BUT, I have yet to find a good recipe for it. Nice small doe = yummy. Big ole buck better have a nice rack so you can stare at it to take your mind off how tough the meat is. :D

[LAK]

I'm still proud of him but he has started to feel bad because it's not a 12 pt buck, doesnt weigh 250 lbs, he didnt shoot it from 400 yds away
My bag this last season was zero.

But it is not the kill - it is the hunt. The hike, the climb, the stalk. The sights, sounds and smells, the natural elements, relaxation and companionship - or solitude. These are what make hunting worthwhile in itself and should be impressed upon all new hunters IMO.

[willsjeep]

I have to agree with the way this has gone so far, any first deer is a great one. I packed my first deer out of the woods over my shoulder, and carrying my 20 ga single. I was 13 at the time. (I still only weigh 140 at 35 yrs)
Definately not a big deer, but huge in my memory. I can still remember the taste of the meat when we grilled it that evening.
Your son's first deer will be like that hopefully, just keep up the good words to him so that he knows what You think.

[artsmom]

I remember antelope hunting in Western Nebraska one year, and stopped to help a bunch of Game Wardens who lost an alternator belt on their pickup. One had been hunting and had an awful nice buck in the back, so I gave him our ice to keep it cool until they got mobile again. He went on at length about size, spread, bases, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, until another old beat up pickup with an old(er) rancher, who stopped to see if we needed any help.

Well, the game warden started in on him, and the rancher went over to the back of his pickup and dropped the tailgate, revealing a buck that had everyone's jaw dropping. The now dethroned hero, stared at it while doing the mental math of the measurements, before starting back up:

"Well, you may have (may!?!? how about half again more) on length, but my bases are close (you wish!) and with the heart shaped horns, they will look good polished and painted with ivory tips..."

"You are going to paint your horns?? It doesn't have ivory tips now, why would you put them on?" I asked.

"Well... to spruce it up, so it looks..."

"Might as well give it boar's fangs and a great big honkin' rhino horn and red eyes, as long as we're makin' something up!" said my brother.

[griz]

I'm with you Calvin. It bothers me that some people would take a poor shot at a buck instead of an easy shot at a doe.

Tell your son that this hunter sends his congratulations.

[Steve Morgan]

The boy did good. Tell him to keep on shooting those does and when that big one comes by, he'll be able to put him down. ;)
Funny story- the big trophy guy that I knew for years (last name was Dunn), called everybody's deer small, dinky, slick heads etc. and he never hardly killed a thing, and when he did, always talked about how he thought it was bigger - he was indeed, the trophy god. Well, the big one ran across the road in front of him one night.... he swerved off the road, down the embankment, and hit the deer. The deer staggered off into the darkness..... next morning, he jumps the deer and shoots it beside the road. Yes, he was of course, trespassing. Anyway, this was his story and he told everybody. About a year later, he had a big party, maybe 100 people there, and there was the deer - mounted on his wall! I said "Is that the deer you hit with your truck?". He acted a little funny, wanting to keep it quiet and everything. Well, from that night on, he answered to the name "HIT-AND-RUN-DUNN". :D Get it?

[butch50]

Hunting is about the quality of the hunt, not the size or sex of the deer you take. A real hunter, in this day and age, is more interested in the process than the outcome. Even trophy hunters, true trophy hunters that is, become trophy hunters because it improves the quality of the hunt, improves the quailty of the process itself. A real hunter, never ever sneers at someone elses kill.

Hunters who make disparaging comments about the size or quality of someone elses deer are those who naturally (and rightly) feel inferior; and try to feel better about themselves by killing a bigger deer than the next guy, or sneering at anothers deer. That is a BS game for the mentally lame.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I agree. We are seeing guys shooting caged deer in Australia so they can claim they have shot a trophy. Its sad.

I think we need to start a register of the dimension of the head or the weeny of a lot of the guys who only want to hear about big trophys.

My biggest 'trophy' was the first rabbit I shot 30 years ago. I have been prouder of that rabbit than anything I have taken since.