View Full Version : piece of crap guns??

December 14, 2004, 07:11 PM
am curious about any experiances you may have had with any guns that were just crap, weapons that you wouldnt trust your life to. i have only had 2, and they both were walther ppk/s models, i bought a used one as my first handgun years ago, it was jam city. i thought i must have just bought a used lemon, so i traded it in on a new one, same thing with it, about the only thing those guns are good for would be to throw it at someone. have owned lots of guns since and have never had any malfunctions of any kind.

December 14, 2004, 07:27 PM
Ruger P85. Loose, rough,casting lines visible, not very accurate, not much fun to shoot, not the best ergonomics, big for the caliber. Can't really criticise newer Ruger centerfire autos. This gun even bit me when I disposed of it. Sold it to some gunshow dealer for a song. Then a few years later, the police traced it to me, could not find my sales receipt, was not in trouble myself, but had to go out of town and testify about where I sold the D__n thing. At least no one was shot with it. Now I have an aversion to even the image of that particular model, like a picture of the snake that bit me.

December 14, 2004, 07:27 PM
"about the only thing those guns are good for would be to throw it at someone."


December 14, 2004, 07:30 PM
If it says Jennings on it I don't even look any further, pass it up.

If it says High Point, . . . I try to leave the area quickly & quietly without a fuss. They tend sometimes to go boom when they shouldn't (personal experience!).

Other than those two, . . . I guess about the only others that don't have a lot of support here are anything of soviet make or design, . . . or Smith & Wesson.

May God bless,

December 14, 2004, 08:15 PM
I guess about the only others that don't have a lot of support here are anything of soviet make or design, . . . or Smith & Wesson. Where is "here"?

December 14, 2004, 08:23 PM
Marlin 22 blew up in my face, never buy another. I now trust the Russian guns as much as most major US ones, never heard much bad stuff 'bout em. I own a S&W and wish I never gave them a dime. The gun is ok, the company I have a problem with

December 14, 2004, 08:27 PM
AMT Hardballer .45 , piece of junk! Jams constantly, horribly inaccurate. Bit like hell until I had the extended backstrap put on. Miserable to break down,Awful to put back together. Best use : Paperweight !!! :barf:

December 14, 2004, 08:40 PM
Dan Wesson experimental Coyote .22 rifle. Darn thing misfired all the time, I was lucky to get to fire once or twice out of ten rounds. The rifle was sent back to the factory 3 times and it was never fixed.

December 14, 2004, 08:45 PM
Had a Keltec P40...it was a .40 cal and jammed every 3rd round or so. I used it to qualify with to get my permit. Then used it to trade in for a Sig P239 in same caliber.

Sir William
December 14, 2004, 09:56 PM
I can't really blame a single manufacturer. I have bought new junk from Ruger, S&W, Lorcin, Rossi, Winchester, Kel-Tec, Heritage-Stealth, Savage, ASM, Interarms imports and I buy with caution now.

James K
December 14, 2004, 10:00 PM
Aside from some that were simply lemons in an otherwise good product line, and some that were correctable (my PPK/S worked fine after I reduced recoil spring tension), my top candidates for the worst are:

1. The Rogak. A licensed copy of an early design of what became the Steyr GB, it was a loser from day one. (The GB was no winner either, but it worked.) Soldier of Fortune magazine recommended using it as a boat anchor, and I agree. Mine would almost never fire and didn't work when it did. Maybe they were jinxed in some way, since they were made in Morton Grove, IL, which later banned handguns.

2. I never owned any of the small autos by Jennings, Bryco, etc., but had to work on a ton of them. Complete junk, but at least they were cheap and no one really expected much.

3. And for the worst POS put out by a major gun company, I nominate the much hyped and grandiosely named "Colt All American 2000".

Contrary to some opinions, I have fired a fair number of High Point guns, carbines and pistols, and found them awkward and lacking in refinement but generally reliable.


December 14, 2004, 10:02 PM
Worst gun I ever had: Colt (yes, that Colt company) Pony.
Double-action only.
.380 caliber.
I put the wire handle of a small bucket through the trigger guard, then began adding boxes of bullets. It finally pulled the hammer back at 18 pounds!
I took it to the range. At 7 yards I couldn't have hit a refrigerator, let alone a person. That long, creepy, gritty, heavy trigger pull threw off every shot I tried --- and I tried both slow and deliberate and fast and panicked!
Then ... here's the worst part:
On about the 10th round the trigger stuck in the rearward position. STUCK! I popped out the magazine (not wanting to risk a full-auto malfunction or some such silliness) and pushed the trigger forward with the tip of my finger.
Reloaded it and tried again.
About 15 rounds later, it again stuck in the rearward position.
Since it was new, I brought it back to the Sportsman's Warehouse in Salt Lake City.
The clerk behind the counter gave me a disbelieving eye when I said it was a faulty gun. He started cycling the slide by hand and pulling the trigger --- all the while staring at me in an obvious effort to make me uncomfortable enough to "come clean" and admit it wasn't faulty.
Oh, wonder of wonders!
About the 8th time he cycled, the trigger stuck in the rearward position!
"Well, I'll be damned," he said in astonishment. His demeanor instantly changed as he became all apologetic and assured me it would be shipped back to Colt --- free of charge --- for repair.
I told him the heck with that; I'd take a Walther PPK instead.
They had one left. The real PPK, not the PPK/S, and it was in the .380 caliber I preferred.
That PPK has since gobbled up about 1,000 rounds, from +P stuff to the weakest, lead bullet reloads I could assemble --- and never failed to function or go BANG!
Okay, one box of ammo it didn't always go bang --- 1943 issue Swedish .380 surplus. That stuff had such hard primers that a second strike was often required. But that second strike always set it off.
I love my Walther PPK and am delighted I managed to get rid of that Colt and apply the money from it toward the PPK.

December 14, 2004, 10:13 PM
Taurus M85 UltraLite. Cylinder locked up after just about every shot. Even after they "fixed" it once. I'd never buy from them again.

Quickdraw Limpsalot
December 15, 2004, 06:00 AM
Ruger P85. Loose, rough,casting lines visible, not very accurate, not much fun to shoot, not the best ergonomics, big for the caliber.

Hmm.. odd, I had just the opposite experience. I sold mine for funds toward a Glock 17 and less than a year later, I would have swapped even to get the P85 back. I still miss it.

December 15, 2004, 01:38 PM
Bersa .380. Picked it up used as a gift for my Mom, took it to the range, couldn't even get through a box of ammo. Fieldstripped it, tried again, jammed up again after a few more shots. The range owner took it down, cutting himself on a loose part, and just said "take it back." That's what I did and ended up getting my mom a snubby .38.

Can't say this problem was the gun's fault (as it was used), but I'll probably never buy another Bersa, new or used.

December 15, 2004, 01:56 PM
Virginian Dragoon, single action, in 357m, made by Hammerli. I bought it, in part, because of the name. It's timing was off and would shave lead. Took it to a gunsmith who worked on it. After about 20 rounds, it was as bad as ever. Then found two other people who had owned them and had the same problems.

December 15, 2004, 06:08 PM
1. New Charter Arms Pathfinder (22Cal). Cylinder would lock up.
2. New Beretta Tomcat. Basically fell apart, piece of crap.

I read an earlier post about HiPoint guns. I've never owned a pistol (don't plan to either), but I do have a 9mm HiPoint Carbine that is sweet. Accurate, Reliable, couldn't ask for more.

The only automatic I've ever owned that was 100% reliable out of the box is my Sig P239. Wonderful pistol. :)

DT Guy
December 15, 2004, 06:26 PM
I had TWO Walthers (both in .32, supposedly the 'correct' caliber for the gun) pass through my hands. The only reason I got the second was because I didn't believe James Bond would carry a gun like the first-horrific D/A trigger pull, constant jamming with FMJ ammo, awful sights.

Turns out the second was exactly the same. And neither one would shoot down airplanes :D


December 15, 2004, 06:28 PM
Whenever this kind of thread comes up I make sure to mention my Raven .25acp. Nothing good to say about it - underpowered junk which only goes bang if you work hard on it and are lucky to boot. :barf:

December 15, 2004, 06:40 PM
My first handgun was a "crummy' little Raven in black teflon with real walnut grips! About 1983. Was impressed out of ignorance, amazing low price! Well, that gun always ran for me. Have not ever had a problem except once it had a feeding problem. Was due to a weakened mag spring from old age. Got a new mag at a show for maybe 5 bucks. It always went bang with any 25 ammo I put in it after that. Potmetal cheap monstrosity, but mine works! Still in the gunsafe.
Then I got an impressive looking Taurus revolver copy of a Smith 19. Looked real good and was reliable functioning, but could not hit much! The barrel was screwed into the frame crooked, and the adjustable sight could not correct it. Took alot of Kentucky windage to hit a 20 yd. target! Went to the pawnshop for 60$. Now that was a piece of cra.. that cost me 200$ new.
Have found that name of the mfr. does not guarantee no Cra....!

December 15, 2004, 10:36 PM
Taurus PT92 :barf: I wanted a Beretta and settled for a cheap copy, what a piece of crap it was. It never made it all the way through a magazine without a FTF. I ended up selling to a guy for $150.00.

December 15, 2004, 11:28 PM
LLama Omni, EAA Silver Team IPSC, EAA Witness, CZ 97b. None of these firearms deserve a place in my safe. I guess I'm lemon prone, because even my CZ only rates a toilet gun. :barf:

December 15, 2004, 11:34 PM
The only gun I've ever owned that was a totally un-redeemable piece of cr*p was the very first handgun I ever bought...a used Iver Johnson .22 revolver that was in good shape, except for the fact that it was so far out of time that it was shaving bullets like crazy, and I couldn't hit anything 10 feet in front of me. I've had or still own a lot of the guns that other posters here have reported less than stellar results with, but they've been good guns for me...a .380 PPK/S, Taurus 92...even an older Jennings J22 (no, I wasn't drunk when I bought that, so I don't have an excuse). I got the Jennings to work OK by filing a bit on the extractor, now I can get through several magazines without it jamming. I feel like I've accomplished a technological miracle.

Lawyer Daggit
December 16, 2004, 01:44 AM
Ruger mini 14, Ranch Rifle and Mini 30- concept was great- hence I have at times owned and traded each- none was a keeper as they were all very innacurate.

Ruger 77 international - would not shoot worth a damn.

Winchester 94- worse than the Ruger auto's.

December 16, 2004, 06:08 AM
Completely agree with those who mentioned Jennings .22 semi-auto, Raven .32 semi-auto, and I would add Sterling .32 auto not worth the money even though they a relatively cheap. Many buy them as entry level or first firearms but your better off with a reliable revolver then any of those. Not to fond of Walther PPKs either, regardless of the Bond mystque .

December 16, 2004, 05:41 PM
Worst gun I ever had, couldnt even set rounds off at times.
I have had great luck with PPK's but they do neet hundreds of rounds before I would trust one, but thats true for any auto loader that I carry.
The other was an HK P7 I think it was a 7 might have been a 9, the one with the cocking lever on the front of the grip
I know that would shock a lot of people but it was me not the gun. I could not grip the gun to make the hand cocker work each time. I tried with a holster and a closed range and tried to get it out and fire quickly. To many times the gun would not go off. I had to mentaly pull the cocking lever in first.
Great gun, but with a lot of experance with 1911's like I do stay away

Seven High
December 16, 2004, 08:16 PM
I once had a Rossi 38apl stainless steel 3" barrel. The cylinder would skip when the action was cycled. It was "repaired" by a local gunsmith. It was still a piece of crap. I traded it off. :barf:

December 16, 2004, 09:12 PM
The worst gun i have ever had was a beretta 84 Cheetah it was jam city with any ammo i put in it, the other one was my tokarev with the 9mm kit in it the only think i would shoot was CCI Blazer, but with the corect 7.62 x 25 its very good.

December 18, 2004, 06:02 PM
Taurus 85. Cylinder bound up, crappy trigger, won't buy another one ever. Charter Arms Bulldog Pug .44SPL. Nothing wrong with the gun, but by the time I fired 3 shots, recoil and muzzle flip would unseat the bullets in the last 2 and stop the cylinder from rotating. Very bad news if I ever needed it in a crisis. Sold both and bought a Colt Detective Special. Liked it a lot and wish I'd never sold it.

December 18, 2004, 07:11 PM
Taurus PT92. Man did I have trouble with that thing. After several trips back to the factory, I finally traded - even - for a Browning HP that's still one of my favorites.

I've owned other Taurus products, both pistols and revolvers, that have been great. Guess it was just a lemon.

December 19, 2004, 03:21 AM
Taurus M85 UltraLite. Cylinder locked up after just about every shot. Even after they "fixed" it once. I'd never buy from them again.

Just as a quick question.
What bullet weight were you trying to fire in it??
You do know that the heavy bullets will slip their crimps and lock up the cylinder on light revolvers.
I had to learn that the hard way with my M85UL!!! :o
I stoke it with 110gr Federal PD rounds and shoot nothing heavier than 130gr FMJ rounds in it for practice!!
I'm fine!!

December 20, 2004, 07:57 PM
I have not owned very many cheap guns over the years, but I have to say the worst thing I ever bought expecting it to be at least decent was a Dan Wesson Dave Pruitt model 1911. I own several 1911's and have carried them for many years. I have yet to meet one that I could not make run. This one was horrible.

Rusty S
December 20, 2004, 10:53 PM
My nomination in this category is the Thomas 45 auto. Supposed to be a cam locked piece, held there by squeezing what looked like a grip safety.

December 21, 2004, 12:31 AM
Taurus 8 shot .357 revolver. Worked ok with jacketed ammo but consistently keyholed with lead. Sent it back to Taurus and had it returned in the same condition. Sold it at a loss and will never buy another Taurus.

December 21, 2004, 07:48 AM
Had a few that I wouldn't carry, but by far the worst is the EAA witness 10mm.
Wow, that was a POS.
I don't think in the 2 months I owned it, I ever went through a complete 10 round mag without something happening that wasn't desireable.

December 21, 2004, 09:41 AM
I'm surprised to read all the negative feedback on the Taurus M85 and PT92.
No doubt all firearm manufacturers put out lemons, but I've always felt both these models represent some of the best values on the market outside military surplus.

FWIW, both my Taurus M85CH and PT99 work perfectly (with the PT99 seeing many rounds).

My personal experience with a "lemon" was exacerbated by the dealings of a deadbeat importer to boot. I was once the owner of an aesthetically and ergonomically pleasing EAA Witness .40S&W compact with Wonder finish. It was tight, accurate and seemingly well made if you looked beyond the internal machine marks.
Imagine my disappointment when I found it would chronically misfeed every other round, regardless of manufacture or bullet profile.

Imagine my disgust after receiving it back from the third trip to EAA for factory repair with the same exact "test fired, ok" memo as the other two times. The pistol would always feed fine upon manual cycling; the failures to feed came during actual firing... indicating just how lazy these folks at EAA were. A search of TFL archive will turn up a particularly nasty and detailed post of mine concerning this event as it was happening (circa 2001).

I'm sure there are at least twice as many satisfied EAA customers as those who share my contempt, but I don't think there will ever come a day that I would purchase another EAA importation. If only Tanfoglio would find someone else this side of the pond to export to.

December 23, 2004, 11:43 AM
The worst and Biggest P.O.S. that I have ever shot was a

KAHR P40 It was fine the first 200 rounds
then after that all went to hell there customer service was lousy so I just got rid of this garbage and bought a real gun a SIG

December 23, 2004, 12:12 PM
IMHO, there are no bad guns, only bad applications. No gun maker is exempt from putting out a lemon once in a while, some more than others. No gun will be right for everyone, every gun will be OK for someone. Every gun will have limitations in some applications.

Even the cheapest, worst gun can be of value to the man who has no other means of defense. Heck, a Super Soaker can be devestating on a dog if it is filled with ammonia.

I recall an old amputee who kept a no name Spanish revolver under his pillow. It had not been fired in probably 50 years. The cylinder was crudded up in front of the cartridges. It had no finish left. the grips were gone and replaced with cardboard and electrical tape. I would not have been surprised if it became a grenade with the first pull of the trigger. When I saw it, I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing or puking. :barf:
The old man sucessfully defended himself with this gun after I saw it. Luckily he did not have to pull the trigger. It was a good gun, it just looked like a POS.

Made Man
December 23, 2004, 01:56 PM

Psalm 144:1
January 2, 2005, 10:46 PM
The absolute worst handgun I have ever had the dubious pleasure of owning was a Helwan Brigadier 9mm. It fired-occasionally- and completely seized up mechanically whenever it did. This occurred regardless of ammo brand, lubrication,cleanliness,whatever. I shudder to remember how proud I was when I bought it for $150.00,and shudder even more to realize that I even CARRIED the @#$% thing for a while before ever having fired it. I had to drive the magazine out of it with a hammer and a dowel and the aftermarket mags i bought in an attempt to make it function were no better. All this aside, I can recommend it heartily as a self defense weapon,if all you really want is a solid metal thing to beat an assailant off with!

January 3, 2005, 05:27 AM
Beretta 9000s. The safety broke before I put a single round through it. After about 500 rounds I have had one fail to eject. Horrible accuracy, hitting man sized targets at 25yds is way to difficult.

January 3, 2005, 02:45 PM
Bought this because I though it was cute and cheap. Well, it was sure cheap. It was an early polymer and the polymer frame kept breaking when it was shot. Intratec kept replacing it but to no avail. I eventually just threw it away rather than sticking some other poor shooter with it.

January 3, 2005, 03:57 PM
My choice, the Beretta .32 Tomcat. I shot (or tried to shoot) a buddy's gun, and the frame where the hinge pin goes thru broke! Locked up the slide.

Once shot another guy's Beretta - the trigger pull was so hard, I couldn't get it on paper. And I'm no stranger to stiff triggers - my Maadi Cadet (civilian market Helwan) has a very stiff trigger - but it's totally reliable and shoots inside two inches at 25 yards - if you can control that trigger!

Another guy had a cheapo derringer, I think made by Jennings or some similar company. We never could get it to switch to the second barrel - it became a single-shot!

When I first got my Whitney Wolverine, it would not cycle a full magazine of anything - except Aguila SSS! Weird! I stripped it down (that's an adventure without instructions!) and ground a tiny chamfer on the bottom of the chamber mouth - now it's very reliable! Outshoots my Buckmark too. :cool:

January 3, 2005, 05:40 PM
Got a neat looking early German marked CZ 27 war relic once. No stamped parts, about 1942, Blue at least 98% and super clean and nice. Looked like it had never been fired. So I put a snap cap in it and it functioned with that. Put a live round in from the mag to check feeding. It would sieze up with the slide just slightly out of battery, and froze so I could not retract the slide! So there I had a round locked in the barrel of a cocked gun! Finally with careful thumping and working it got the round out of the gun. Thought the round was bad. Tried another brand of .32 FMJ. Jammed again. Nice, booby trapped gun! I think the chamber was cut small or short, and it grabbed the round slammed forward by the slide. But the red plastic snap cap functioned good all the time. No wonder it was never fired. Sold it with a warning to a collector.

January 3, 2005, 06:46 PM
I have never owned what I would call a peice of crap...but I have sold many that did not live up to expectations. Interestingly the only semi auto I have ever owned that I would bet my life on is a Taurus PT-92 9mm.
I have owned the following and sold them for reliability reasons...Sig 220, Glock 21, three 1911's, (One Gold Cup, one officers Model (Colt), and one parts gun (my first).

January 3, 2005, 06:59 PM
I have never owned a crappy gun, but I have fired other peoples' crappy guns. I think the crappiest guns I have ever handled and fired were my brother-in-law's two Jennings "Nine" pistols, both obviously in 9mmP, with one being blued, and the other some kind of nickel or chrome. I checked them out a bit before we shot them, while he told me how the guy at the pawn shop told him the Jennings "Nine" was a smooth piece that all the gun mags raved about. Based merely on outward appearance, and the magazine safety, I was skeptical we'd keep all our digits. They were true jam-o-matics, and I realized later that the slide on one of them had cut the web of my hand. His plan was to give the silver one to my sister, for self defense, which I expressly forbade him to do.

January 3, 2005, 07:12 PM
After this weekend, my S&W 422 is headed for the trade barn. Out of over 20 clips fired this Friday, only 1 fed all 12 without a jam. It seems to only eat CCI mini-mag ammo.

January 3, 2005, 07:34 PM

Had a few that I wouldn't carry, but by far the worst is the EAA witness 10mm. Wow, that was a POS. I don't think in the 2 months I owned it, I ever went through a complete 10 round mag without something happening that wasn't desireable.

A co-worker of mine has an EAA witness in 9mm. While the trigger is absolute crap and the safety needed to be hit with a hammer to disengage(not very far from the truth), it worked every time you pulled the (crappy)trigger. He seems to like it the way it is :confused: and a trip to the gunsmith could rectify those problems. Not a very accurate gun, but accurate enough.

XavierBreath has a good point, when you have a choice between a crappy gun and no gun, take the crappy gun. Hopefully most of us have a wider choice than those 2. :rolleyes:

January 4, 2005, 07:11 AM
I've had really good luck with the used PPK I bought . . . trigger pull is kind of stiff, but it feeds anything. But I've heard of people that bought one that had problems.

I've see cops buy the most godawful collection of junk to use as off duty and backup guns. The funniest thing is, most all the PDs around here have policies about manufacturer, model and caliber for the guns officers are authorized to carry on duty (second gun) and off duty, and do you think these guys would be smart enough to read the damn policy before buying some clunker at a gunshow?

I've seen a bunch of guys with Bersa .380s that wouldn't feed any kind of hollowpoints, who had a Bryco .380 that wouldn't even feed ball, several different guys with AMT Backups (both the SA & DA guns) that had HIDEOUS STIFF TRIGGER PULLS and (in the old days) a couple of guys who had Charter Arms Revolvers that were badly out of time. (I don't know if that was a characteristic of that product or if they were just really hard on their equipment)

And always test your equipment. I know a guy from an adjascent PD who bought a Para-ordnance LDA to carry as an off duty gun (in violation of policy), tested it with ball ammo and then carried it for about 6 weeks loaded with an assortment of hollowpoints he had left over from five years ago when he owned a SIG 220 (he had to sell that to get caught up on child support payments. Go figure). When he went to shoot all that up through the LDA at qualification, the gun kept malfunctioning. (I don't know which variety of hollowpoints caused the problems or exactly what was happening). After he was all aggravated and embarassed, THEN the sergeant of the range told him the gun didn't meet policy anyway, so he was forbiddent to carry it.

The same guy had an early Carbon 15 that kept jamming after it got hot. Took about 60 rounds or so and then it quit working. I don't know if that was a persistant problem or if he just had a lemon or what.

January 4, 2005, 09:35 AM
I bought an Intratec Tec-22 at a gun show years back. Thought it would be a fun plinker. Turned out to be total garbage. It jammed with every magazine and I tried a couple different types. At one point, I saw something fly out of the breech (besides a shell) while shooting. The extractor and spring blew off. I sent it in for a free repair (which was actually pretty quick, as I remember.) They replaced the whole bolt assembly. Still jammed constantly. I sold it off promptly. Since I only paid about $100 originally, I didn't lose much. A case of "you get what you pay for." :barf:

January 4, 2005, 10:34 AM
amazing that no one has mentioned any cheap $100 guns. perhaps no one here has owned a highpoint or just wont say they have. as far as cheap they are. they are also reliable.
someone once told me "poor people have the right to defend themselves, too".

January 5, 2005, 08:17 PM
I've only had a couple:

Rossi Model 69(?) .38 snubbie I got at an estate sale in 1982 (my first revolver, and my last for a long time). Paid $50 for it and got took. Every single time I fired it the locking center pin would come disengaged, the cylinder would swing out about 1/32 of an inch, just enough to keep anything at all from happening when you tried to squeeze the trigger again. Slap the cylinder and you get one more shot. Wonderful--a single shot revolver. Took it to a gun shop where the owner told me to throw it in the river rather than spend any money on it. I took his advice, but first I took a hammer to it, partly for satisfaction and partly to make sure no-one else ever used it...

Colt 1911 that someone had chromed. Got it cheap (around 1983) and good thing...would feed ball (sometimes) and anything else (never). Sold it to a "collector" at a gun show who gave me $200 for it and said, "oh, they're all like that". Found that hard to believe because I grew up shooting my daddy's WWII 1911 and never had problem one with it. Guess some of it stuck with me cause I just finally bought another 45 (Para P-14) in 2004.

Those experiences drove me to quit buying whatever was cheap and buy something which intrigued me: an HK P7. I've had at least five since then and will never quibble over the price of one. I own other pistols, but none I like so much or shoot so well. If only they made a P7 in .45... (yes, I know, they made between 3 and 6 of them, but only "maybe" one is in private hands)

January 5, 2005, 09:21 PM
amazing that no one has mentioned any cheap $100 guns. perhaps no one here has owned a highpoint or just wont say they have. as far as cheap they are. they are also reliable.
Hey PSE, I am a proud owner of a Hi Point model JHP .45. Still breaking her in, the only time she ever jammed on me was a couple of double feeds within the first 50 rounds. After that and a good cleaning(disassembly is a pain) she has not failed me since. I sure as hell can put some tight groups together too even with pretty hard trigger pull. I speak from limited experience, but I have not had any crap guns except my issued M9 that I used in Iraq....barrel was kinda bent so I had to hold it at a weird angle to actually hit something, aside from that it was completely reliable.

January 5, 2005, 09:25 PM
I had an AMT .380 NIB that was an absolute jamming beast! With hardball. Factory or reloads, it disliked them all.

Polished the ramp to no avail. Although I've heard from folks who have better luck with this model, I think its best feature was that it was so heavy for a "back-up" piece, that you could do significant damage to someone if you hit them with it.

January 6, 2005, 12:07 AM
Kel Tec P40. What a POS. "buffed and fluffed" and all that crap. Still sucked.
Had a Raven 25 years ago. Worked like a champ. Go figure...

January 6, 2005, 12:17 AM
Kel-Tec P3AT. I loved the light weight, and it is accurate for such a short barrel, but it is not a reliable gun. It will fail to fire and extract intermittently on every magazine with all the different ammo I have tried. I am sending it back, if it doesn't work after that it is gone.

Slash in NC
January 8, 2005, 12:18 AM
AS far as fit and finsh, Colt Gov. Model .380. It did go "bang" every time I pulled the trigger, but the overall manufacture was poor. I expected more from Colt.

The Rossi M877 I think was the worst I bought. I did buy a S&W Sigma V40 as the very first handgun I owned. The trigger pull was very heavy and accuracy was not the greatest, but I had no malfunctions what so ever.

Funny, those three where my first three handguns. Don't own any of them now and my taste has gotton better. Sigs. Glocks, Para Ord, S&W Revolvers, Ruger Single Actions and I really like my AWA COLT SAA clones.

January 8, 2005, 07:44 AM
Hello everybody,
I'm new here at the Firing line and this is my first post.
I've not owned that many gun's but the hands down worst was a Laseraim 45.
This was a stainless steel gun about the size and look of a Colt Defender. Most of the time it wouldn't fire, but If it did fire, it jammed.
Like someone else said, the best way to protect yourself with this thing was to learn to throw it accurately.

January 9, 2005, 07:39 AM
A Bryco/Jennings .380 was my first gun. I pulled the trigger, and it went bang and jammed right away. I removed the jam, pulled the trigger and it jammed so bad I needed the gunsmith. I sent it back and then bought a Glock 21.

Years later I bought a Taurus Pt22, it jammed every magazine, the slide broke twice, and the barrell release broke off while firing. After sending it to the factory three times for repair, I just traded it in and purchaced a SW 22a.

January 9, 2005, 04:49 PM
I often read of some bad guy who has aquired one of the aformentioned cheap POS guns on the street. Then it jams and the good guys either escape or blast him with a good gun. So they do serve their purpose, I guess. Decoys for stupid crooks. Only thing dumber is the guys who do robberies with BB pistols. Gee, it looked real, so I dotted his eyes!

January 9, 2005, 06:58 PM
I would have to say the high points, I take these off the bangers in Chicago and all I can say is thank God for there inaccuracy. They are good for one thing, with the weight of them they can second as a club

January 10, 2005, 03:36 PM
I forgot this dust collecting dud. It is a stainless steel mini DA .25 auto based on the Walther TPH, apparently. Neatest looking dud I have. Looks high quality but must have substandard metal as the firing mechanism is broken-linkages just sheared off. No parts for this one. Heartbreaker but am glad I never needed it- broke right after I got it, used, in the box. Was supposed to be rare and probably collectable. I will sell this one cheap, for parts! Or a TV prop! Or a "throwdown"! Got an extra barrel and mag. Mags probably worth more than the gun now. This is one reason I suspect castings.

January 10, 2005, 04:05 PM
I would have to say the high points, I take these off the bangers in Chicago and all I can say is thank God for there inaccuracy. They are good for one thing, with the weight of them they can second as a club

.....hummmmmm.....must I show my more recent targets with the Hi Point?
If you can't shoot, then you can't shoot, don't try to blame it on the gun! :rolleyes: ;)
Maybe I'm just lucky and ended up with a good .45....hell, most of my shots go in or near the same hole....but I will agree that they are heavy and clunky....it made me realize how "light" an M9 was

January 10, 2005, 08:06 PM
every Glock I ever owned!

January 10, 2005, 08:17 PM

Every Glock you ever owned???????? That was a surprise to me, my G21 is the sweetest little piece IMHO. Dependable, accurate, simple. I also just picked up a G19 for carry. What problems have you had with your Glock?

January 10, 2005, 08:22 PM
I've owned 5 Glocks they all were unreliable, and akward to shoot. The slide on my 21 broke, the trigger on my 19 broke. the mag release on my 17 broke. all of these problems happened within the first month. I know alot of other people that would never buy another Glock. But I guess some people love them as much as I dislike them. Go figure :rolleyes:

January 10, 2005, 08:49 PM

You make a good point, seems like people either love Glock or hate Glock, I've never met anybody who straddled both sides of the fence in this one. Oh well, I'm starting to see that everyone has there own opinion, everyone is more proficient with their own "favorite" weapon, and no matter what any Glock-lover, S&W lover, Ruger, Khar, Sig, or Springfield-lover says, there is really no "best" gun for everyone, because the best gun is the one that you are proficient with that resides in your holster every day!

AZ Gun Collector
January 10, 2005, 11:24 PM
hipoint's are junk from the several i have repaired. didn't shoot well either.
at my 1st ccw class a gentleman showed up that had bought 5 of them 1 for each family member. had never shot them before. all five failed to work right..could just have been new gun blues/breakin needed.
flip side i have an aquaintence that owns one and loves it. not only that he shoots it well to boot. and it never jams. have fed it everything from 90gr to 147gr not a hitch lol.

i will double the tec 22 junk statment.

other than that all others were either fixable or just ammo snobs.


AZ Gun Collector
January 10, 2005, 11:51 PM
hipoint's are junk from the several i have repaired. didn't shoot well either.
at my 1st ccw class a gentleman showed up that had bought 5 of them 1 for each family member. had never shot them before. all five failed to work right..could just have been new gun blues/breakin needed.
flip side i have an aquaintence that owns one and loves it. not only that he shoots it well to boot. and it never jams. have fed it everything from 90gr to 147gr not a hitch lol.

i will double the tec 22 junk statment.

other than that all others were either fixable or just ammo snobs.


January 11, 2005, 06:27 PM
My cool looking Norton stainless mini gun fell apart quickly, but the old black teflon 1982 Raven still plays! Piece of pot metal! Ugleee! Go figure! Only prob. ever was a weak mag spring-new mag AOK!

January 17, 2005, 06:22 PM
Have to say this thread has been very educational. I don't think there was any gun maker left out of the 'bete noire' roster. The first handgun I ever bought was a Sterling Arms 22 target auto. Never could get it to fire two in a row without jamming. My next handgun was an H&R sportsman, which I still have (40 years later) and it still shoots and looks great. I had an S&W Mod 34 kit gun that I traded off because I just never liked carrying it or shooting it. Unfortunately it is now worth 10X what I paid for it. I had to send in a Rossi Mod 461 (357 Mag snub nose) that hung up on the 3rd cylinder of 38 Spec, +P ammo. Seems fine since I got it back, but we'll see. My Taurus Millenium PT140 has digested ~500 rounds of various ammo so far and never even hiccuped. Guess I've been lucky since a lot of my guns have been picked up second hand. A few had minor problems that were easily corrected, and for which I suppose I should be thankful - otherwise they wouldn't have been such a bargain. Hope my luck holds out. I'm definitely not done buying used guns, or new ones that I am not totally familiar with. Good shooting!

January 18, 2005, 01:48 PM
This weekend had the opportunity to rent a Sig P226 because people on this forum seem to love this model. My impression is of it first off was the ergos was pretty good... everything was within reach and felt pretty comfortable. The sites were alright... would've liked to seen them @ night to see how that front site post and rear site line up since the rear site has that vertical bar.

Now my dislikes. I don't know if the gun was well-used, or if it is a design flaw, but the slide didn't want to return to battery quite a few times. I and my wife found ourselves pushing the slide forward more than we had cared to. Another little quirk about the P226 is quite often the trigger would be 'dead'. Trying to fire DA, the trigger would just go to the rear w/o moving the hammer. SA, the gun would fire, most of the time, but still trigger wouldn't release the hammer. Any one else experience this problem? This, I would call, a 'piece of crap gun'.

January 18, 2005, 07:41 PM
I had a .25 auto raven damn thing would jam every 2-3 shots fired. used as partial trade for s&w 357 mag

N.H. Yankee
January 19, 2005, 08:13 AM
A S&W P99 45acp, the gun was new and after 20 rounds I pulled it apart to clean and lube for long term usuage and found the flat recoil spring was rubbing on the barrel and shaving metal off, I returned it to the dealer he sent it to S&W and they returned it with a new spring and no letter no nothing. I took it out to shoot and guess what, same thing, so I put 200 rounds through it to see if it would get better, well the spring was 1/4 gone where it was rubbing. Can you say design flaw? We checked a 9mm version at the shop which was used and it didnt have the problem but as I pointed out to the owner the barrel is smaller and there was more clearence in the frame where as the 45acp barrel sucked up most of the frame and there was little room left. Second gun M2 mauser, the slide retainer kept backing out when shooting to the point it actually was out of the right side of the frame and it kept happening so there was another new gun returned for refund. The barrel is similiar to the cougar design and is a cam action barrel and it would turn in the direction the slide stop needed to go to be removed, guess what held the stop in place, THE BARREL!! So when the barrel turned during action it was pushing the release out. I have had others but these were the worse, most were just plain innaccurate some jammers but these were losers from the word go.

N.H. Yankee
January 19, 2005, 08:21 AM
I had a 9mm carbine I bought for $110.00 that looked new that wouldnt feed ball ammo and I sent it back to Hi-Point, in 1 week they returned it with just about every part replaced, 3 new mags for my trouble and a chamber job. The gun actually fed empty cases after and digested everything I threw at it. Very accurate and fun to shoot, yes they do have there shortcomings and I have heard of some that are 100% reliable from the factory but they do stand behind thier lifetime warrenty unlike some of the BIG name companies. you dont always get what you pay for and sometimes you get a little more. They should come from the factory 100% but I have yet to see a gun that was, some have a better track record than others.

January 19, 2005, 10:07 AM
It's very surprising that your SW99 was sent back to you without any paperwork. Any time I've sent something to S&W, I get a letter in the mail when they receive it, and a repair order telling me what was done. Is it possible that the owner took the paperwork out of the box before you got it?

But, that doesn't excuse the problem not being fixed.

Like it's been said many times before, every manufacturer has a lemon every now and then. It's too bad when a great company like S&W puts one out.

If you call them on it, they will give you a pre-paid shipping label, and either replace the pistol or probably give you something else instead if you aren't happy. I've heard they have done that before.

N.H. Yankee
January 19, 2005, 03:50 PM
Hawkleg, I actually returned it to the dealer because it was new and they sent it to S&W and when I was called to pick it back up they didnt find any paperwork with the gun, the same dealer ended up eating the gun after the 200 rounds I put through without the issue being resolved. The used 9mm they had in the case didnt exhibit this problem when we removed the slide and checked just out of curiosity. I think it is a 45acp design problem in the P99, sad to think these guns arent thoroughly tested before entering the marketplace and people buy them for protection. The gun that really surprised me with disappointment was the SIG/Mauser M2 45acp. I have had 7-8 Sigs and never had a problem except for a P225 that was accuracy challenged, all my other sigs functioned 100%. I have owned approx. 100 handguns in my lifetime and can say most were good to exceptional, but then again a gun is not that complex of a piece of work. I have owned 5 Kimbers and never had a problem in anyway all very accurate and 100% reliable, 4 S&W 3rd gen. autos no problems except typical combat accuracy under 4 inches and more than 2 at 25yds which I really dont enjoy shooting.

January 20, 2005, 02:49 PM
i second the mauser m2 disappointment. i traded it straight up for a s&w cs45 and never looked back.

45/70 GOVT.
January 20, 2005, 10:21 PM
Taurs PT 40 jammed on the third round most of the time and randomly there after. pissed me off so bad I got rid of my Taurs Pt 57 in 357 sig. never had a problem with it. used the money to buy a Styer M 40, no problems yet.

Had a Glock in 40 cal didn't like the feel of it the grip, was to big for my hand . Didn't like the unsupported chamber it ruined brass to the point it couldn't be reloaded. no problems with the reliabilty.

Winchester M 70 XTR feather weight in 7x57 mm Shot 15" group at 100 yds.
It was a very nice rifle other wise. I think it was a bedding problem in the fore end of the stock. free floating the barrel would have probaly fixed it.
Used it for a down payment on a truck

2 lemons out of 27 guns over 26 years not to bad

I've had cheap guns that gave no trouble I've had expensive guns that had problems. most problems were easy fixes

I have a Kimber Ultra Carry first 100 to 200 rounds had several jams. When I was cleaning it later that day, I noticed the mag was split where it was welded together. Kimber sent me a new mag. No more problems

Some times things just slip through the quality controll process.

You get what you pay for.

Davy Jones
April 18, 2005, 12:01 PM
A friend of mine sold me his bryco jennings nine a couple years ago for $25. :rolleyes: I knew it was junk but I bought it just to have something to plink with. After 40 rounds of federal ball ammo the slide broke! The flippin barrel is made to the frame. I also owned a EAA Witness P 45. It looked kinda cool and you could carry cocked and locked 1911 style, with a 10 rd mag. But that thing jammed up on ball all the time :barf: . I coulden't deal with it and traded it in pronto..

April 18, 2005, 12:33 PM
tintcutter, I'd be willing to bet that your P3AT will work flawlessly after Kel Tec does a fix on it and sends it back. Mine did after I got the updated barrel and slide from them (replacement).

Joe Demko
April 18, 2005, 12:50 PM
1. Arminius .38 Special- anyone who tells you about how wonderful German guns are never owned one of these. It had a cast zinc frame and a bad paint job to complement the grips specially designed to fit no living human hand. It began misfiring after a couple hundred rounds and then fell apart. Thank providence I got it for nothing.

2. Harrington and Richardson 999 Sportsman- rear sight fell off. Several chambers were bored badly out of alignment. SA trigger pull was horrific, DA pull was in the 18 -20 lb range. Horribly, horribly bad accuracy. It was a real disappointment, too, as I had always wanted one.

3. Rossi .38 special- a snubbie I was given by my ex-father-in-law. Apparently one made in the 70's. It misfired often and the few times it did fire, the frame began to deform. It was unsafe to fire the day it came from the box.

1. ChiCom copy of the Tokagypt- beat itself to death in less than one box of standard-pressure 9mm. It jammed so badly that I had to beat it apart with a mallet to get the last round out of it.

2. KelTec P-32- it took repeated trips to the factory to get it to work. I still don't trust it.

3. Tanfoglio TZ-75- unlocked prematurely and had terrible accuracy. By the time I had a recoil spring in it heavy enough to keep the bugger locked up longer, it was heavy enough to cause reliability problems.

Maadi AK- what a stinking, feculent mound of dung. It would fire reliably but that is the only thing I can say in its favor. Otherwise, it was the worst rifle of any type that I ever owned.

Mike Irwin
April 18, 2005, 01:04 PM
The only one I ever truly had trouble with was a Mauser HsC. I so wanted to love that gun, and it just was not reliable.

Joe Demko
April 18, 2005, 01:23 PM
That reminds me...I had a Bolo Mauser in 9mm that would never fire two shots in succession w/o a malf. It was originally a .30 caliber that was relined to 9mm. I suspect that its problems were the result of that conversion rather than Mauser having turned it out as a piece of crap.

April 18, 2005, 01:32 PM
Eaa bounty hunter 22/22mag total junk. Never in 50+years owned any
firearm that bad.

Mike Irwin
April 18, 2005, 01:45 PM
I've quit firing C96 Mausers. I've seen one too many fracture the bolt. I've never heard of one getting loose and coming back into a shooter's face, but I don't have any desire to be the first.

The several C96s that I have fired over the years were all reliable, though.

April 18, 2005, 02:04 PM
I am suprised someone got a dud H&R breakopen. I have a cheapo short barrel 900 9 shooter .22 and it functions well and groups too. Not a bad little plinker at all. I once saw a magazine article where they talked up the Arminius 38. They were shooting at foam cups with wadcutter bullets and thought the crappy little thing was the bees knees for home defense. Guess it is hard to get a bad review in the gun comic books. Lets hope the bad guys get all of them. Instead of something effective.

April 18, 2005, 02:43 PM
I have to say I've been lucky and fortunate enough not to get stuck with a lemon. If I were to pick the worst one it would have to be my Llama Minimax in .45ACP.
Even then I need to clarify that my problems with the Llama were limited to breaking in. After about 500 or so rounds it settled down and is every bit as reliable as any other .45 I've ever shot/carried.

April 18, 2005, 06:17 PM
Ruger Mini-14! :mad:

Dropped Hammer
April 19, 2005, 04:50 PM
A rattle trap Springfield Armory mil spec 1911....the slide would'nt always slam into battery, did'nt matter the ammo..and quite a bit of stove piping..This thing was soooo loose I'm surprised it did'nt fall apart in my hands ...Plus everyone at Springfield I talked to must have been fresh out of Midol ...Also A CZ 52 that fired on full auto without pulling the trigger...The new CZ 52 that I now have is great though..

April 19, 2005, 06:57 PM
TOM2: Interesting on the Ruger P85. It was the first gunned I ever owned, and yes it was a lemon. It was the only gun that I have had that consistently jammed at least once every magazine. I like Rugers, and have shot many, but for some reason that one just kept on having issues. Other than that one, I have had very good success with the guns I have purchased.

April 20, 2005, 12:29 AM
Taurus PT92 I wanted a Beretta and settled for a cheap copy, what a piece of crap it was. It never made it all the way through a magazine without a FTF. I ended up selling to a guy for $150.00.

???? Really?

I've got one and it's the most sturdy reliable gun I own. It feeds everything I feed it, I've gone through close to 600 rounds so far without a single malfuntion or jam. I love my PT92.

April 20, 2005, 12:34 AM
The crappiest pistol I ever bought was a llama 38 super. It was a real jam-o-matic.

3 weelin geezer
April 20, 2005, 08:31 PM
Wow! I am surprised that no one has mentioned the tec 22, grendel p10 or a cobray. Both my tec 22's don't chamber right and jam or stovepipe when ejecting and the grendel cracked just above the screw holding the trigger. Not to mention the front of the frame separates from the slide about .25 inch.

April 21, 2005, 10:59 PM
The absolute worst pistol I've had was a 1911A1 style older Auto-Ordinance. POI was 10" under POA at 10 yards! Target practice was like firing a morter. Disassembly/reassembly was a bear. The Houge grips were the only redeeming factor.

May 7, 2005, 01:31 AM
In about '97 I bought a new Springfield 1911 .45. It jammed every third round and after about 20 rounds it flew apart on one shot. Picked up the pieces and took it back for a refund. Dealer didn't believe it, took it out back, 1 round fired and it flew apart again. No argument after that. Walther P-22 hasn't flown apart but it has every other problem imaginable.

May 7, 2005, 09:31 PM
Without question, the KAHR MK 9 is poorly made, poorly fitted and overpriced POS gun. My frustration with this pistol arose for a variety of reasons detailed below, however I would like to add that unlike a Jennings, Hi Point or other such widely accepted to be poorly made pistols the Kahr receives with fair regularity favorable press and reviews which I can only attribute to careful selection of sample pistols or a lack of through testing by the often complacent and advertiser driven gun press.

Problems with my pistol are as follows:

1. At delivery one grip screw head was striped and many machine marks and burs were evident inside of the frame and slide. On inspection of the areas where machine marks were evident it was obvious that either a horribly dull cutter was used or that the speeds and feeds on the machining center were completely wrong for stainless.
2. Pistol when delivered suffered FTF at lest twice per magazine regardless of ammo, lubrication, or magazines used. Problems persisted past the Kahr recommended 200 round break in period (which is it’s self very questionable given how many other makers go 5k or more rounds for a government contract test without any such break in period).
3. When contacted about problems with the pistol via e-mail Kahr was generally unreceptive and reiterated their break in policy and suggested I shoot it more (this is at close to 300 rounds through the piece) I finally had to have my gun shop return the piece.
4. When returned from Kahr pistol was very dirty. The only positive thing I can say is that they clearly test fired it a lot as I had returned it to them clean, however sending back a customer’s gun dirty especially for warranty work is just plain rude. They polished the chamber, feed ramp and slide stop and replaced the extractor spring and slide stop spring.
5. Pistol with about 160 more rounds through it still suffers from FTF if it is not pristine clean and well oiled.
6. When last cleaned I noted peening at the forward barrel hood. When I reassembled and inspected the pistol I noted that the barrel hood to slide fitting is actually quite poor as I can easily insert an index card into the space that is there (I’m too lazy and aggravated to dig out the feeler gauges and quantify the gap on this POS). Correct me if I am wrong but should this not be fit better? Could this gap result in the peening observed? It this not the equivalent of the locking lugs on a 1911? None of my Sigs or the Glock 26 I just purchased (guess why?) have the slightest of gaps there even after many thousands of rounds.

So here ends the saga of my MK9, I never really go to trying it out with different defensive loads because it works so poorly with FMJ. I have purchased a Glock 26 and found that I can for the most part carry it in my front pocket where I had intended to carry the Kahr. The Glock and I will be heading to the range tomorrow and I will be deciding on what I would like to trade the MK9 in on when I get around to buying another gun.

May 8, 2005, 01:24 PM
"If it says High Point, . . . I try to leave the area quickly & quietly without a fuss. They tend sometimes to go boom when they shouldn't (personal experience!)."

I have to admit I've only see one hi-point in use, but I was not thrilled with it at all. It was scary.

It was choking on factory fmj, wouldn't feed, and twice fired as a mag was inserted. Thank God the shooter was good at keeping the muzzle downrange when clearing jams and reloading.

Maybe you could send it back to the factory and get it fixed, but I'd rather have an "experienced" quality gun for a few hundred $ and not have to worry about any of that.

The only bad gun I've owned was a heritage arms rough rider 22. It wouldn't keep a firing pin. The firing pins aren't steel- I think they're aluminum. A design flaw for a 22, they have to know people buy a 22 to shoot it a lot. Too bad 'cause it was probably the most accurate 22 revolver I've had.

May 9, 2005, 06:56 AM
I don't really know if this was a bad gun or not, but it was the only one I ever sent back. A Ruger SS Security-Six, 357 magnum. Before I got through the first 50 rounds shooting cast bullet reloads, the cylinder started to bind up. I sent it back to Ruger, they sent it back in a couple of weeks and said the barrel/cylinder gap had been set too tight. It seemed the trigger was better, and the grips fit better when it came back than it did when I sent it off too.

Other than that, every gun I ever had shot when I told it too, didn't when I didn't, and pretty well hit somewhere close to where I pointed it. I'm not a good enough shot to say if that's the guns fault or mine.

May 9, 2005, 07:54 AM
It's funny hearing all these Jennings stories. I worked in a large gun shop for about 3 years, we sold quite a lot of those pistols. Over 100/year. I hated selling every single one, and flatly refused to talk to customers about them. If they wanted one, fine, but don't ask me to talk it up in any way. Fully 40% of those pistols came back to us shortly after sale.

That being said: I had a woman come into the store one day with a Jennings 32 Auto, saying she had bought it a while back and had come on hard times, so I gave her some change for it and took it to the range just to see for myself. I will have you fella's know, in 300+ rounds, NOT ONE SINGLE FAILURE OF ANY SORT. Would I trust this pistol in a defensive situation? Hell no. But it did go to show, sometimes in a world of lemons, you can come across a peach. If you are asking why 300 rnds through a crappy gun like that, I just wanted the damn thing to jam or break so I would feel better. :D

chris in va
May 9, 2005, 12:10 PM
I have a weird one.

Ruger MKIII 22/45 4" barrel.

$*&* thing wouldn't feed ANY hollowpoints by any manufacturer. The nose would hang up on the feed ramp edge and jam. Thunderbolts were the only round I could fire out of it.

Ruger even sent me a new bolt and mags, but didn't 'fix the glitch'. I suspect there was just something wrong with that particular gun though.

My MKII 22/45 on the other hand...what a gem. :D

Jack Malloy
May 10, 2005, 09:10 AM
I have had mostly good luck with guns new or used, but then again the majority were top quality, Colts, Smiths, Berettas, etc.....

I did have a Glock that was prone to jamming, and an HK that was useless as a weapon, unless you stuck the barrel inside the badguys mouth before pulling the trigger.
I have had luck with Auto Ordnance 1911s, AMTs and other middle market .45s. I had a Colt commander once that was a jammamatic, however, no matter what you did to it.
As for poor people and cheap guns, the statement made is horsecrap.
When I lived in Lexington, you could go to a couple of pawn shops and find a barrel full of S&W model 10 .38 revolvers that were traded in for $75 a peice, take your pick.
Often the finish was grey with most bluing worn away, but they were generally mechanically sound.
When I worked as a minimum wage security guard for about a decade, I saw many a co worker who spent enough money on cigarettes in a year to buy a customized Colt python bitch about the cost of a "good" gun and buy the pot metal .25s and .380s.
When you tried to steer them towards a good used police trade in for the same price range, they would go on and on about how they wanted something that fired from a clip.
Im sorry. I would rather have a well made weapon that fired from a cylinder than a jammamatic prone to misfiring or breaking and a pack of smokes every day, but that's just me.
There are plenty of good used guns out there if you look.
Why pay $200 for a POC automatic when for the same price you can find a nice used Ruger Blackhawk at a flea market?
I think its funny that people can find $20 a week for a carton of smokes, $10 a week for lottery tickets. $50 a month for cable tv, but can't scrape up $300 for a decent gun?
Horse pucky.

>>amazing that no one has mentioned any cheap $100 guns. perhaps no one here has owned a highpoint or just wont say they have. as far as cheap they are. they are also reliable.
someone once told me "poor people have the right to defend themselves, too".

range dog
May 11, 2005, 12:08 AM
The biggest piece of junk is my Wildey 45 mag. Broke three hammers two fireing pins, rear sight, bulge in slide from bolt actuating pin. The only redeeming quality is it is very accurate. This gun is poorly designed. I was hoping they would go out of business so they would become a collector item. Win some lose some.

big daddy 9mm
May 11, 2005, 12:36 PM
I would love to tell you about my piece of sh??. I have a Bryco Jenning 9mm.
It has a great shape but it literaly jamy 2 out of 3 bullets. I would neVer considerate for protection even though I do now because Its what i have which will be remedied as soon as possible. there is no Place on earth that makes holsters for them either or else I would just try to fix the firing pin that broke.
BRYCO :barf:

May 11, 2005, 03:49 PM
im gonna puset lots of people here but the question was asked.
any glock. absolutely all of them. ive fired most of the models and just cant take the things seriously. they just dont feel like guns to me.
i dont know why its just the way i am

May 11, 2005, 04:06 PM
POS? Kel-Tek P-11. Worked great for about 800 rounds or so. Now it is a "jam-o-matic". Cheap price, but still disappointing. Need to find a decent gunsmith.

May 11, 2005, 07:37 PM
Out of all you experienced shooters, not a one of you mentioned Rohm!!! I once bought one, an RG38 2" snub from a co-worker for $5.00 including shoulder holster and 3 boxes of vintage Frontier 38's. I had to fire it just to see how bad it really was. TRULY HORRIBLE. Frame cracked where barrel was pinned on on the first shot, using 150gn wadcutter and 2.7gn Bullseye. Scares me to think what may have happened had I not wanted to keep the old Frontier ammo for collector value! I also have a S&W Sigma 9mm, not 1 prob in over 2000 rounds, my only complaint is stiff trigger. I have kept the Rohm for showing people what a truly crappy gun is!

May 11, 2005, 09:47 PM
I'm voting for Taurus 45 acp snubby. Picked it up today and eventually it fired 30 rounds. Of the 30 rounds only 7 fired the first time. I just kept pulling the trigger until the cylinder had been around 3 or 4 times. Single action got all of the rounds to fire on the 1st or 2nd try. I'll see how many times I have to cycle it through Taurus factory repair before it works. :barf:

May 12, 2005, 03:51 PM
Tanfoglio E-27 .25 ACP imported by FIE. Shoots fine, cycles well on all brands of ammo, but coupldn't hit a bull in the azz with a Bass Fiddle. Safest place to be when firing this POS is in front of the muzzle.

larry starling
May 12, 2005, 08:26 PM
Llama and anything thats not a Colt! Thats all I buy now and havent been dissappointed yet! :eek:

May 13, 2005, 01:26 PM
Shooting buddy had a cheap 4" .38Spl RG I think, but not sure. He also had one of the .32 Clerke revolvers. Both of those sent almost as much lead sideways as downrange. :eek:

Had a "Buffalo Scout" .22LR/.22Mag from F.I.E. A knockoff of the Colt SAA. Would sort of send the lead in the general direction it was pointed.

One other really cheap .22 LR snubby, (Also RG ? ? Don't remember). Couldn't hit a 9" paper plate at 2 yards. That right 2 yards...6 feet :eek: 12 hits out of 150 shots, using just about every brand/style of .22LR ammo available back then.

Tennessee Gentleman
May 13, 2005, 03:27 PM
The front sight screwed on the barrel with a sleeve and after so many shots would loosen and fall off. Would have made a great starter pistol!

big daddy 9mm
May 30, 2005, 05:43 AM
please tell me the details about your marlin because I have a marlin 22 and it is awesome! when it is clean it is flawless and I have lost count on how many thousands of rounds I have out through it. :confused: :)

May 30, 2005, 11:31 AM
I'm your one and only Glock fence sitter. I neither love or hate this piece, a G21. The feel is ok, it's never jammed on a factory round, its a bit more accurate than my Colt, holds more, the trigger short reset allows pretty darn fast shooting...Whats not to like?

A couple things. First, it has the KB spectre all over it, it is a bear to get it to feed lead, and its pretty thick for carry.

Yah, I know you're not supposed to feed it lead. I don't anymore but I should be able to. I can see the day coming that ammo will be unavailable or out of sight in price. The unsupported chamber sticks in the back of my mind.

It's almost there but not quite and the shortcomings are not going to go away as they are not minor. What it does it does well and what it doesn't do, it fails miserably in. I'm thinking if I can just sell it off foe eniugh to replace it for a SA mil spec. Straddling the fence as it were.

May 31, 2005, 10:50 AM
I bought a S&W 915 that shot aweful and would jam 1 - 2 times with every clip. The worst gun I had was a TEC-22 Scorpion. Jammed like mad with several brands of ammo. :barf:

I also have a Jennings .22 and yes it was only $50, but mine works great with CCI Stingers.

May 31, 2005, 12:31 PM
I owned a smith and wesson 5906 once, always jammed up and not accurate at all 12" groups at 25 yards. I traded it for a python 38special only. I'll never own a smith auto again. My friend has these Hi Point handguns. $150 new and they not that great of quality. Always jams and missfires. I'd trust my life to a $119 cz 52 before those anyday.

May 31, 2005, 12:47 PM
Friend--Look out for the Jennings, great piece of sh-t . . . then add into the mix Heritage. One can buy a lemon on any product ever conceived, but Jennings and Heritage start out that way. Consider before buying!!
Guns wont harm anyone, 'it is the person who operates the trigger'

June 4, 2005, 11:02 PM
had a 357 rossi revolver once, after shooting about 25 rounds through it ,the hammer and wheel got all gummed up and didnt want to release the spent brass :eek: anyway that gun is long gone now...good ridance :p

June 4, 2005, 11:22 PM
Taurus PT-145 blew up in my hand. Biggest piece of crap I ever owned. Rather than retype the whole story-just search the site for my posts. No other gun I owned comes close to this one.

June 5, 2005, 12:40 AM
Had a H&R Model 999 years ago. It functioned just fine, but blew lead and powder out from the cylinder gap something awful. I had no experience shooting handguns prior to buying it and I thought at the time that having my hands burnt with hot powder was just part of shooting handguns. Not so.

Buy cheap guns and get poor quality. I won't even buy a Taurus. There is no guarantee on functionality with the name brand autos, but generally they are generally fine if not finicky with some ammo at times. Have not had any problems with Glocks in terms of jamming although I have one that just won't shoot accurately worth a darn. Keep threatening to send it to the factory to be "fixed"; I just never get around to it.

June 5, 2005, 04:42 PM
I'm surprised to read all the negative feedback on the Taurus M85 and PT92. No doubt all firearm manufacturers put out lemons, but I've always felt both these models represent some of the best values on the market outside military surplus.
I agree with this quote...I have both guns. My PT92 has been my best looking, and best shooting handgun, right out of the box, through over 1000 rounds. :D

I carry my Taurus 85UL in the warmer months. I have put some pretty heavy ammo through it (Thanks for the heads up Denfoote ;) ) with no problems....

Not all, but many piece of crap guns posted seem to be lemons. I've had three! All by highly regarded gun makers. My lemons are!!! Hold it...My lemons were...

Beretta TomCat, and Bersa Thunder, both FTE-O-matics...And the latest a Ruger SP101...Had it to the GS twice to fix a hammer hard pull / rub. Dumped it last week for a Ruger p345 :rolleyes:

Lesson learned. I don't like small frame auto's....380's suck, and lemons happen... :barf:

Jack Bauer
June 6, 2005, 11:07 AM
Oh, I have to get in on this one!

I had an Astra A-80 .45 back in the mid-80's. Thing was a sort of poor man's Sig. Had the same controls, and looked kind of like a P229. It had the worst, mushiest trigger I've ever tried, and when I'd shoot it, it would shoot two feet low at 10 yards. Nothing I did worked for me. I finally traded it for a nice S&W 65 3".

June 7, 2005, 11:08 AM
new addition to this one - though not a handgun - Marlin 1894FG - jam on almost every round from the magazine - total lock-up requires take-down or a well-placed screwdriver to 'unstick' the offending round.
Not all bad news, as I was able to trade in for a 41 Redhawk to shoot the ammo out of.

June 7, 2005, 06:55 PM
I had a Kimber Custom that could never make it through a mag full without jamming. I tried damn near everything, but it was junk. A buddy has the identical gun that works great. Go figure!!!

Seven High
June 7, 2005, 07:36 PM
I bought a AMT Back up when I was a young LEO. Several other LEOs had purchased them and told me what an excellent weapon they were. I found out later that not one actually shot it but just loaded it up and carried it. I could not get mine to make it thru one magazine without failure to feeds. Some ammo was too long to fit in the magazine. :barf:

June 7, 2005, 07:47 PM
My Smith and Wesson Sw40ve is the biggest pos I have ever owned. I thought it was the Blazer 40s I was using so I tried all types of better ammo. Still jammed every 5th shot. I replaced the magazines and it still jammed. Stripped it, cleaned it lubed it. Still jammed. Sold it to Gander Mountain now it jams for someone else. Also bought three Franchi auto youth shoutguns for the nephews for Christmas. One had a bad gas system, one had a loose stock that could not be tightened anymore and one jammed on every other shot. What are the odds. I own a franchi and I love it. It is a sxs and I don't know if I will ever buy another auto from them.

June 7, 2005, 08:46 PM
Wow - 125 posts, and over 9,000 views - that's an awful lot of crap! :D Venting about POS seems to trounce the caliber wars!

Mr. Tettnanger
June 11, 2005, 08:05 AM
Davis .380. As a fresh faced newbie, I foollishly trusted the gunshop Jerkoff to point me in the right direction for concealed carry firearms. He stated that the Davis was the best overall self defense weapon. He went on to say that it would be the best and last $79.95 that I ever needed to pay for CCW. That no good, @#*!%^&. :mad: Anyway, lesson learned. Now I have a nice, shiny, conversation piece that makes for a fine paperweight :rolleyes:

Mr. Tettnanger

June 11, 2005, 05:31 PM
an HK that was useless as a weapon, unless you stuck the barrel inside the badguys mouth before pulling the trigger.
LMAO... :D :D

June 11, 2005, 06:38 PM
Had Glock's break the mag spring and the trigger return spring broke while sitting in my holster! All in one month! Too bad its issue and manditory carry. Some body took a swing at the Kahr a few posts back and I am confused. I have two, one sub compact in .40 and a P9 both sweet. In fact the 9mm was loaned to my SWAT team to run through the evaluation course to be come approved for backup and off duty carry. It passed with flying colors...

I would agree on the POS designation for Tanfoglio, (AKA EAA) never again.

June 11, 2005, 07:37 PM
I bought this thing for home defense because everyone told me polymer guns were the wave of the future, but it's the biggest POS I have ever seen! Last tupperware gun I'll ever buy!


June 11, 2005, 10:37 PM
Owned a Beretta Tomcat. Trigger broke after less then 20 rounds right
out of the box. Beretta corrected problem. After another 100 rounds
the trigger broke again. I was using this gun for conceal carry/protection

My Browning Hi-Power MrkIII 9mm pistol is the best gun I have ever
owned. Have fired thousand of rounds (FMJ, HP, +P), never fails, accurate.
Proven design (John Browning was the best). A little heavy for conceal
carry (full 15 rounds).

June 11, 2005, 11:46 PM
I guess I am a lucky SOB, never bought a bad gun. My lament is the ones I let get away, especially my 6" Colt Diamonback in .22 & my Lightweight Commander .45 - I will never marry again lol.

Mr. Tettnanger
June 12, 2005, 09:40 AM
CarbineCaleb=LOL...!!! Thanks for the giggle!
Damn Polymer guns!

Mr. Tettnanger

June 12, 2005, 05:25 PM
Taurus PT111 and PT140. About two years ago. Really bad ...

August 6, 2005, 11:50 PM
My first gun was a Davis .380 - bought at a pawn shop for $80. That thing jammed on me about every other shot!! Sold it to a "friend" for $95 - still kinda feel bad about that!

I had a Rossi .357 that sucked - actually traded it for a desk - yep - a DESK! You know a gun sucks if you trade it for furniture.

August 7, 2005, 01:30 AM
Phoenix Arms HP22. It wasn't mine (thank God), but every time I shot it, it was very disappointing. The pistol can be best described as absolute garbage. You could expect it to jam 3 times per mag at best, or for EVERY SINGLE %$&@ING ROUND to jam at worst. Heck, it wouldn't even jam consistently. It would stovepipe, then it would fail to extract, then it would misfire, it was junk. The trigger wasn't bad, but it was so amazingly inaccurate you literally could not hit a soda can on the ground 10 feet away.

What's even funnier is that guy that owns it is otherwise a gun snob. "Sig Sig Sig, Betta Beretta Beretta." He even gave us a stainless P89 because it wasn't European enough for him, but he still hangs onto that POS HP22.

August 7, 2005, 04:51 AM
Phoenix Arms 22 was the biggest POS when I fired one, Jennings 22 is another, but it never jammed with Winchester hi-vel ammo, Cobray M-11 that jammed like crazy with non fmj ammo and was wearing out where the bolt slides inside the receiver, Site's Spectre 9mm jam crazy with all the mags it came with, Llama 357 mag that spat lead between the forcing cone and cylinder - painful experience. josh

September 17, 2005, 07:46 PM
I guess I collect crap:

Thomas 45 - goes off every time I pull the trigger and NEVER FTF.
HKP7 - THE most accurate 9mm made.
Steyr GB - Well.. goes off every time I pull the trigger and NEVER FTF.

One thing they all have in common is a terrible trigger pull.

OTOH - My AO 1911 .45 was a real POS but was fixable.


September 18, 2005, 09:05 AM
http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/6649/97646184217ah.th.jpg (http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=97646184217ah.jpg)

September 20, 2005, 09:54 AM
A Walther SS PPK .380 - heavy, unruly for the weight, so stiff I couldn't get it apart to clean it, not particularly accurate no matter what I fed it.......

Also, I got all the defective Colt firearems that you guys didn't get....... :mad:

September 20, 2005, 11:19 AM
Riflesmith Sharps. Broke just about ever time I shot it. Called maker. He said that if I wanted a gun that worked that I shouldn't have bought one of his. He was VERY proud that his rifles were EXACT copies of the originals including every known problem.

Taylor Spencer. Broke repeatedly. The last time it came back from their shop the action wouldn't even cycle.

September 20, 2005, 11:24 AM
Confession time. I was still in school 25 years ago and broke but wanted a handgun for defense. I bought a .38 special RG (commonly known as Rotten Gun). It was the poster child for Saturday Night Specials. I was afraid to fire it more than few times. I paid $50 for it and sold it later for $25 (and was glad to get it).

September 20, 2005, 05:27 PM
My worst was a Beretta Bobcat in 22LR. I don't think it ever fed a complete magazine without a jam. I returned it to Beretta twice. Both times they said problem fixed, but not so. Then I must concur about the Walther PPK/S. Mine was pretty good with ball ammo, but wouldn't feed even a modest hollow point. Sometimes jammed with the ball ammo as well. I'd never trust it as a defense gun. Got rid of it years ago ( as well as the Beretta ).


September 20, 2005, 06:26 PM
When shopping for a pistol I considered Kahr. I've shot Kahrs and didn't particularly like them. Of my friends and acquantainces, and others on this site, Kahrs seem to have a very bad reputation.

Kahr is unusual because IMO they are poorly made guns BUT they get great reviews on the internet and in gun tests.

Weird dichotomy between reality and reviews in this case.

In defense of Glocks, just because it doesn't fit your hand well doesn't make it a bad gun.

September 21, 2005, 09:54 AM
Springfield 1911-A1

Even before this particular specimen came into my life, I still didn't trust any auto after the failures Ive had with others I've owned. None have ever come close to the reliabilty of Smith revolvers for me, nor the power and accuracy for field use.

September 24, 2005, 07:23 PM
Ruger P95, it's the biggest -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- I have ever owned. Paided 200$ for it, sold it for the same. Nothing gained nothing lost.

Garand Guy
September 24, 2005, 09:02 PM
Chinese SKS. Can't go 10 rounds without a jam (on a good day). Should have spent the extra $100 to get the Russian that was right next to it. That was back when I could afford to spend the extra money on a whim!

Jack Malloy
September 27, 2005, 07:57 AM
Last week a shooting buddy of mine who is usually pretty sane calls me up and says he bought a hi point off a local neer do well for $40.
The guy basically said he needed $40 and if my buddy would give him the money, he would give him the gun and buy it back for $50 when he got paid on Saturday. Sort of a pawn if you will.
I told him he needed to line up a buyer really fast as they were pretty much useless as far as projectile launchers go.
Normally, my friend would not hold such junk in his hand, as he likes military surpluss guns- Walthers, Colts, etc.
It was almost new and still in the box with the price tag on it. It had no instructions on how to field strip it, by the way....
I inspected this "prize " and was amazed that any company would honestly charge $129. for it.
The plastic frame was all chewed up from where somebody attempted to put a laser sight on it. The barrel appeared to have been painted black and the paint was worn off in spots. The slide was thick and chunky and appears to have been Zinc or some other alloy, not steel. I didn't have a magnet, so I really couldn't tell. Took a lot of force to pull the slide back and the only way to lock it back was by putting an empty mag in the well.
Here is the beautiful part.
When dry fired, the firing pin, which was really long and not much bigger in diameter than a pin or a needle was stuck FIRMLY forward. Thats right. It stuck about a half inch out of the rear face of the slide. Now, even if this was not a safety factor, a firing pin that long and thin looked like a bad design choice to me in terms of breakage or safety.
Providing it did not break if you attempted to load this sucker, the gun would have probably gone full auto. We tried EVERYTHING to get the darn pin to go back where it belonged. Finally, I racked the slide so hard that it went PING inside (I thought the slide was gonna come off in my hand) and the pin went back.
The owner finally showed up and paid the $50 to get his gun back and my buddy was glad to be rid of it.
I don't understand why somebody would throw good money away on crap like that, for the same price ($129) they could find a decent trade in police .38.

September 27, 2005, 01:48 PM
A POS ... with sentimental value (http://www.mybigboystoys.ws/clerke.htm)

September 27, 2005, 06:56 PM
HK P7 bad trigger?
First time I've heard that one. Want to sell it? I've only owned five or six, and would "like" to own a bad one...

September 27, 2005, 07:14 PM
Llama and a Keltec P-11.

September 28, 2005, 08:36 PM
grap guns Ive had SW99 felt like the slide was dragging everytime shot, and my sig trailside which has spent the last 8 weeks at sig arms getting fixed for a issue of the slide not locking back after the last round is fired. I got it back and now every thrid round will not fire but the slide locks back now. I almost forgot about the Rugar P94DC awful trigger, Ravan 25 and a Titan 25 and lastly a jennings 22 awful to shoot.

September 29, 2005, 11:22 AM
My first pistol, an RG western style single action revolver, was given to me as a birthday present when I was in my early teens. My brother got one too, only his was a double action detective style revolver. My pistol started with FTFs, then my brother's followed. His was so bad, you could literally play "russian roulette" with a full load. The damn thing would fire a live chamber about 1 out of 4 tries. To make things worse you needed a hammer to get the spent cartridges out of the cylinder.

On the plus side, my brother and I have had a lot of laughs thinking about those guns over the years.

October 2, 2005, 11:38 PM
I Cannot Stand Jennings..... Cheap!!!!!! Good Luck!

January 7, 2006, 09:20 PM
Star Ultrastar 9. 200. used. I loved the look and feel of the gun, nice carry gun, wouldn't run on anything but ball though. With cor-bon 115 jhp's I got 7 misfeeds in 2 mags (18 rds). I wanted to like it and it was all I had (couldn't afford anything new (would have got a makarov or CZ-52 or Hi-Point) but getting a dealer around here to special order is like pulling teeth.

Last fall we got ok'd to move in to our apartment and needed cash that same day. I sold it to a customer who overheard me in the pawn shop, for 100 cash.
I have lost far more on handguns.

My springfield 1911 had a few quirks that kind of worked out on their own- barrel link, rear sight; both were too loose to stay in place (and screw head for rear sight was stripped). But for both one day they just decided to stay in place.

I never really liked my p-89. Just horrible ergonomics which resulted in bad accuracy and all the muzzle flip that a 9 could ever produce. Rides really high in the hand and off balance) No reliability problems and good price for a big name american auto, but it was not engineered with the human hand in mind. (I prefer the 1911, Hi-Power Glock mid-size and the Steyr M-9/40.)

January 7, 2006, 10:43 PM
Bought a used Taurus PT-92...Love it and never had a problem with...I thank that unknown guy who unloaded it every time I shoot it. The reason I bought it is I seen people have problems with Beretta .22 and .32. I like the M9 service weapon , but I don't trust Beretta any more than Taurus.

January 8, 2006, 07:01 PM
Wow- that about covers everything. I may never buy another gun!

January 8, 2006, 07:25 PM
Had a Beretta 21A in .22 LR that had continual feeding problems.

Otherwise I have been lucky. Bought a Taurus PT99 sight unseen (M9 clone with adjustable sights) and could not be happier. Can hit pop bottles from 10-40 yards.

January 8, 2006, 09:12 PM
FEG Hi Power. I bought one and my girlfriend bought one on the same day, from two separate dealers at a gun show. Neither one of them would feed anything. Couldn't get them to fire even one round between them.

January 8, 2006, 11:12 PM
Ditto on that old post about the AMT .45 Hardballer. I had one ,it was sure and what horrible fit and finish. It constantly jammed.
On the other hand I had a Jennings .22 I bought for plinking always worked ever jammed.

January 9, 2006, 12:31 AM
Colt Python.

Accurate as heck. Mgfd in mid 1970s, and it was 100%. The blueing was like glass, but every 400-500 rounds, the action would seize up and it'd have to go back to Colt. After the third time, I just stopped shooting it.

Sold it a few years ago and haven't missed it.


January 9, 2006, 12:48 PM
I have never owned a RG . I always heard R G stood for Rotten Gun!:p

January 9, 2006, 05:33 PM
sig p245 the most jamming gun ever made even after two trips back to sig 4 different factory mags a gun smith completed f&b and over a 500 rounds forced through it it still wouldnt go through one complete mag with out jaming on any ammo so i finaly gave it up and traded for a glock 30 (well at least the resale value on sigs are still good)

Jack Malloy
January 9, 2006, 09:14 PM
Sounds like the same salesman that told some other newbie that the Hi Points will last for 22,000 rounds.
As a general rule of thumb regarding cheapie handguns, if it is made of zinc, it will stink.....

I have seen zinkamatics literally fall apart while being fired and thatis why I would never trust any of them.

>>>Davis .380. As a fresh faced newbie, I foollishly trusted the gunshop Jerkoff to point me in the right direction for concealed carry firearms. He stated that the Davis was the best overall self defense weapon. He went on to say that it would be the best and last $79.95 that I ever needed to pay for CCW. <<<

Javelin Man
January 10, 2006, 08:37 PM
Give it up, Jack. You're embarassing yourself with your mindless and boring diatribe on the Hi-Points and providing fodder for everyone's amusement.

I've been lucky with no real pieces of crap guns. My Hi-Points work great, my Lorcin .380 was very good. My Lorcin .25 doesn't like to feed too well, but is rather accurate.