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Fritzers
December 11, 2002, 02:05 AM
Had a tenant who owed me rent. He left me 2 tons of trash and these 2 black powder guns...did I get more than 2 tons of trash? Probably can not tell by these picture's, but I do not know if they are real or remake's?

Fritzers
December 11, 2002, 02:08 AM
The other side...Ooops, it has no letters or numbers and looks like a 50 cal.

Fritzers
December 11, 2002, 02:10 AM
Next one has Derringer Philadelphia, looks like 45 cal.

Fritzers
December 11, 2002, 02:12 AM
Great picture it is'nt, try 1 more, hope it is better...

Fritzers
December 11, 2002, 02:22 AM
Last try...sorry.

Cap n ball
December 11, 2002, 01:42 PM
They are probably new but it would take a much closer look by an expert to tell for sure. A complete breakdown and careful examination may reveal something. The furniture and the locks and barrels could be old while the wood is replacement. I think you did pretty good anyway.

Fritzers
December 11, 2002, 06:23 PM
Thanks Cap n ball, did not think I could solve the mystery with even good pics...doubt you are in my neighborhood, are there any web-site that you know are good? Any obvious things that would say if they are new or old? Interesting you said you thought I did pretty good anyway, even if they are just remakes? Is it not strange the big one has no markings? Any tricks to get a broken cleaning rod and patch out!? Thanks for your help!

4V50 Gary
December 13, 2002, 12:49 PM
I suspect the first one is real. It certainly has a good patina to the metal and look at that screw in the lockplate. That's a no-no suggesting some mickey mouse repair job. Can't give you more details as I would have to study some of my books. Try to get a photo of the lockplate itself (need markings) and bbl.

As to the Deringer, it looks real, but the photo is too small to tell anything.

Harley, Jim or Mike, can you guys help?

Mike Irwin
December 13, 2002, 11:23 PM
The first one does look to be old.

The shape suggests, especially the ear on the hammer, suggests 1830-1850 Belgium to me, but I don't have anything to back that up.

There hopefully would be some sort of maker's mark on the lockwork, or a proof somewhere on the barrel.

The screw in the lockplate may be correct, instead of a cobbed repair. I've seen that sort of thing before on less expensive guns.


If the other gun says Derringer, it's either a new or old copy of a Henry Deringer (note the one R in his name) pistol.

But, to tell you the truth, the little one looks brandspanking new to me.

It looks like it wants to be a copy of the authentic Deringer, but doesn't have the style or proportions.

Lack of the front sight and machine turned look of the barrel also lead me to believe that it's a modern repop.

James K
December 14, 2002, 12:19 AM
I think it is a pretty safe bet the "derringer" never came from Deringer's shop. It could be a contemporary gun made up to trade on the name, and some of these have collector interest. But I think it more likely both are modern "kit" guns.

Jim

C.R.Sam
December 14, 2002, 01:16 AM
Agree with the preceeding gurus...
Two Rs in the name indicate the little one is not a product of Henry Deringer.

Tho Deringer made many thousands of long guns and a few little pocket pistols...the concept of the little fellow caught on and begat the generic term "Derringer" descriptive of the critters regardless of the maker.

The pictured "Derringer" appears to be one of the generics. Clued by the spelling and the shape of the hammer.

Sam

Fritzers
December 14, 2002, 03:49 AM
Thanks all, I'll have my wife take some better pics of it if her camera is able to do so...dang thang cost enough, it should! Spending that much money on something that does'nt go bang should be illegal!

Crimper-D
December 14, 2002, 03:31 PM
That is my guess based on the pics. A quick check for "newness" would be to check the springs in the locks = the old ones copies or original, had leaf springs - modern ripoffs have coil springs.:)

Mike Irwin
December 14, 2002, 04:41 PM
Crimper...

Very elegant solution!

Fritzers
December 14, 2002, 07:48 PM
Took them both apart...leaf springs! Do any kits use leaf springs? The small one just seems like it is in too good of shape to be old. The large one has a mark on the barrell (like a stamp on a silver spoon) with an F? on top and a LG underneath. On a side note I was cleaning the barrell with a cloth patch on a cheap plastic rod, and it broke off at the base of the barrell. Was able to hook the cloth with a fine crochett needle and pull it out. No more cheap stuff.

Mike Irwin
December 14, 2002, 09:10 PM
FLG is the proof mark, but are you SURE it's not an E?

I'm not finding any use of the proof mark FLG.

It's most likely in an oval with a crown over top.

Fritzers
December 15, 2002, 09:06 PM
Mike, looks like you are right, it's a little small and dark...hopefully this pic will be clearer...
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL35/450059/1446931/17052976.jpg
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL35/450059/1446931/17052979.jpg
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL35/450059/1446931/17052965.jpg
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL35/450059/1446931/17052957.jpg
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL35/450059/1446931/17052943.jpg
Might not figure out what I have, but my wife taught me how to put pics on the forum! :D

Where did the pics go? They were there earlier and the link works manually! :mad: Sorry, back to the drawing board.