View Full Version : A Message to Ladybug.

Will Beararms
November 11, 2002, 01:53 PM
I will tell you my approach for what it is worth if you will please indulge me. I will begin by stating the premise that as long as there is urban expansion, hunting will be a necessity. Consider the Bear and Deer in NJ and PA and what impact they are having as urban sprawl in these areas continues.

I prefer and get great enjoyment from killing wild game for consumption. I do not believe in baiting and in fact I believe the use of game feeders and other deer attractants under the guise of creating healthy populations of white tail deer may be one of the culprits spreading cronic wasting disease similar to mad cow disease. For one, we know muzzle to muzzle contact between deer spreads CWD and we also know that some feed makers use animal by products which in my estimation is dangerous not to mention many makers do not "cook" byproducts enough to kill harmful agents like Prisomes which cause CWD. Frankly in my opinion shooting deer under a feeder or as they browse on an attractant is just that shooting and it should not be confused with hunting.

Scent free clothes are a nice marketing gimic and the truth is everything hinges upon the direction the wind is blowing and where a deer is in relation to that. I do all of that but I can tell you this past Sunday, the 8 point buck I killed caught my sent and I was up in a stand to boot! I did take satisfaction in knowing that my rifle and scope had been painstakingly tuned so that the deer suffered very little. He dropped at impact and was dead inside of three minutes if that long as I timed it. You see I invest a great deal of time and money in my hardware, take only safe shoots in a reasonable distance and use a weapon capable of putting a deer down instantly because it is important to me that the kill be a clean one. I do not bow hunt since I cannot fathom the idea of a deer expiring over a period of 30 minutes to one hour-------I just can't do it.

All game calls and other gadgets are good for where I hunt is to give away your position to the deer so I do not use them either. I rely on studying the area I use well before the season to pattern where the deer will be traveling. I find a great sense of accomplishment by doing this versus the live animal target shooting you see on the outdoor TV channels where they take the deer under a game feeder.

My duck hunting techniques are similar. I do not use mechanical decoys and I do not hunt over planted areas. I do not take long shots.

The most important aspect of my hunting regimen is that I eat what I kill. I could have killed two deer Sunday morning but one was enough.

This is just me and I do not speak for the others but I felt it was worth mentioning.

November 11, 2002, 10:24 PM
Nice post Will.

November 12, 2002, 10:52 PM
Will Beararms,
I agree with 99% of your reply to Ladybug. However, I must correct you on your thinking that there is a vast amount of difference in the time it takes a deer to die when shot with an arrow instead of a gun. With a responsible, well placed shot from a hunting bow, and sharp broadheads, I have found no difference in the amount of time from shot to expiration. This is, of course, a general statement, but I do have years of experience behind it. In your post, you tell of a period of about three minutes for your deer to die, after a responsible, well placed, safe, shot. I have seen deer which I shot with a bow and arrow, through the boiler room, die much quicker than that. I have also seen deer hit with high power rifles, hit correctly (heart/lungs) go much further, and live longer. I believe that there is more to it than the type of weapon which is used to administer the fatal wound. I think it depends greatly on the deer's state of mind at the time it is shot. Was it calm, and didn't know what hit it? Or was it already in a panicked or spooked state? Was the adrenaline pumping through its veins? In my opinion, the reason bow hunters wait the traditional 30 minutes to one hour before going after a hit deer, is because in case the deer is not dead instantly, and the hunter should jump it up, they will get into an escape/survival mode, their adrenaline will start pumping, and then they can run a long ways before finally dying, and very possibly being lost. The same thing can happen when a deer is shot with a rifle, don't kid yourself, I've seen it. Even a hundred yards, through thick brush, with little or no blood trail, can make it very difficult for even an experienced hunter to find a deer sometimes. If that deer isn't dead, you wouldn't want to jump it up and cause it to run again.
Please do not misunderstand me here; my point is that, a bow hunter with the same dicipline that you follow (clean shot, responsible distance, clean kill) can expect the exact same results as you could.

Will Beararms
November 12, 2002, 11:04 PM
You're right. That deer Sunday was completely relaxed. The land I hunt on in South Arkansas is only 250 acres and it is surrounded by big deer camps. The difference is we do not use four wheelers. We do not drive into the lease at all unless it is time to pick up a dead deer. We don;t bush hog or cut or anything like that. We have deer making scrapes in the middle of old logging roads that are allowed to grow up. These roads make for killer shooting lanes. The end result is being able to make a shot on a relaxed deer. If you hate long walks into the stand in the am before dark with no flashlight on, you would not like our setup. I turn mine on before getting into a stand to make sure there are no spiders, hornets or wasps waiting for me. :eek:

November 13, 2002, 04:59 PM
"I do not bow hunt since I cannot fathom the idea of a deer expiring over a period of 30 minutes to one hour-------I just can't do it."

shot a buck at 20 yards with bow and arrow with koplen twister broad head, ran 10 feet and was dead right there. arrow broke a rib going in poped the heart and broke a rib leaving never found the arrow. i have seen deer run futher than that hit in the chest with rifle bullets!

Will Beararms
November 13, 2002, 06:11 PM
If you read my reply to Keano44, you will note that I conceded I was wrong on the arrow and bow issue. I think it boils down to being proficient with your chosen weapon and taking good shots.

November 21, 2002, 12:37 AM
I'm SOOOO sorry, I didn't see this thread at all, and I wasn't even aware of private messages until I just happened to notice them at the bottom of the page tonight... I'm sorry! :(

Thank you for the thoughtful and interesting post -- you (and almost everyone else who responded to my post) have basically confirmed what I thought -- that most hunters DO "play fair" and companies like Cabella's just sell that stuff because they can!