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jnsn
March 13, 2000, 05:55 AM
There are so many C&R guns right now that are "8mm" that I was hoping to snag something, since the ammo is so inexpensive. I just wanted to make sure what is going on since there seems to be a few different 8mm. There is 7.92x57, and 8x57, and 8mmMauser Which I think are all the same. But then what is 8x57JS, 8x57JRS, and then I read something about some of the guns being in the "old" 8mm boresize. Help.

alan
March 13, 2000, 10:07 AM
Re 8mm, 7.92 x 57 and 8 x 57, they could be 3 different names for the same round. 8 x 57 is nominal, actual size is 7.92 x 57 mm, the last being case length.

Earlier Mauser rifles in 8 x 57mm caliber had a .318 bore, these included Commission Rifles. Later models had a bore of .323, obviously, the two should not be mixed. Most rifles on a 98 action probably would have a .323" bore, but if you are not CERTAIN, have your barrel checked

DorGunR
March 13, 2000, 12:58 PM
alan is correct regarding the different bore sizes. Also American ammo companies DOWNLOAD the 8X57 JRS due to liability issues.
Norma loads this round to be comparable to the 30.06 which makes it a great hunting round.
I've tried American 8X57 JRS ammo and I will not shoot this stuff again.
Any European loading of this round is far superior.


------------------
"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."

[This message has been edited by DorGunR (edited March 13, 2000).]

Chad Young
March 14, 2000, 09:47 AM
There are essentially two 8mm Mauser rounds:

Old 8mm - 8mm Mauser "R" or 8x57JRS - .318 bore (which is actually 7.92mm). Very little of this exists anymore, as it is a very old round which has been replaced early in the century by...

Current 8mm - 8mm Mauser "S" bore, 8x57 JS, 7.92x57mm JS, etc. This has a .323 inch diameter bullet. Most post-1900 rifles chambered in 8mm mauser are of the S type.

If you shoot "old" 8mm in the S rifles, you will get no probs aside from no accuracy whatsoever. If you shoot "S" loads in an old "R" bore, the pressures may be too high. If in doubt, have your gunsmith slug the bore for you.

Most German K98s and clones are 8mm Mauser of the S type.

Paul B.
March 14, 2000, 10:59 AM
Chad. I just read very recently, that military Mausers made after 1905 all had the .323" bore. However, Many 8MM sporters were made with the old .318" bore well after that, and as late as during WW-2. Go figure.
If you have a sporter, slug the barrel.
American ammo is underloaded so as to be safe in the smaller bore, but, if you have a rifle with the .323" bore, there is no reason why you can't custom load your ammo to duplicate European specs. I've been doing that with the 7x57MM for years.
Paul B.

Chad Young
March 14, 2000, 04:21 PM
If you have a Mauser with the "S" bore (.323) you may like the 196 grain FMJ and SPCE rounds from Sellier and Bellot. This stuff is loaded HOT and shoots very well. I give fair warning, though, your shoulder will know you have shot a real gun!

DorGunR
March 14, 2000, 04:27 PM
Chad Young;
Thanks for the tip on Sellier and Bellot ammo, I'll try it soon.
My 8mm is a Custom gun and it's the "S" bore, I mispoke when I mentioned the JRS ammo.
Thanks again.

------------------
"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."

jnsn
March 15, 2000, 06:02 AM
Thank you all! Now I only have to decide which rifle to buy first. The current flood of 8mm makes it cheaper to shoot than a handgun.

Harley Nolden
March 15, 2000, 08:04 AM
jnsn:
I don't mean to flood the ans. but this may explain part of the ans. you are seeking.

8X57JR Mauser
Introduced: 1900
8mm Mauser case W/rim
Twist: 8.5"
Made expecially for combination guns such as Drilling
8X57JRS mauser
Introduced: 1905
Rimmed 8X57 Mauser case
with "S"
bullet. (Spitzer)
Twist: 8.5"
Rimless Necked:
Dia: Rim: .473"
Shoulder: .431"
Mouth: .3493"
Bullet: .3230"
Length:
Base to Shoulder: 1.8273"
Case: 2.240
Overall: 3.250"
GERMAN 8mm (7.92mm) CARTRIDGE:
Introduced: 1888
OTHER Names: 8X57mm
7.92mm Mauser
7.9mm
8X57mmJS
8mm Mauser
Type: Rimmless, necked CF
Length: 2.765"
Wt: 378gr
Powder: Nitrocellulose
Primer: Boxer (Lg rifle)
BULLET:
Type: Soft Point
Dia: .321" Thru 1904
.0323 Aft 1904 S or JS
Wt: 170gr
Length: .915"
Dia Rim: .473"
base: .470"
neck: .351"
Mouth: .3493"
Shoulder: .4314"
Base to Shoulder: 1.8273"
Case: 2.240"
Overall: 3.250"
Muzzle velocity: 2530 f.s.
pressure: 47000lb sq.in.
Note: Curent ammunition is this caliber is not recommended for this model, as the chamber pressure exceeds 47000 lb
Sq.in.
Factory Ballistics:
Bullet: MV: ME:
123gr 2887 2277
159gr 2723 2618
196gr 2526 2778
198gr 2625 3031
200gr 2320 2390
227gr 2330 2737

The 8mm Mauser is one of the world's truly great military cartridges. It was the official German military caliber in both world wars and was also adopted by Czechoslovakia, Poland and other countries. It is also a popular sporting round in many parts of the world. Although designated the 8mm Mauser, the original military round was designed for the German Model 88 infantry rifle,
which was a modified Mannlicher-type not a Mauser design.

This rifle is known officially as the Gewehr (Rifle), or German Infantry Model 1888. It was designed by the German Infantry Board of Commission at Spandau Arsenal. It was
replaced in 1898 by the superior Mauser Model of that year. The original 8 (7.92)mm cartridge used a round-nosed, 226 grain bullet of .318: diameter. Muzzle velocity was 2093fps. In 1905, the Germans adopted an improved cartridge that retained the original 8X57mm case, but employed a larger diameter bullet of .323". The new bullet was lighter at 154 grains and was of pointed, or spitzer-type. Muzzle velocity was upped to 2880 fps. All German military rifles manufactured since 1905 have the .323" bore.

The German 8mm military cartridge is designated by a "J" for "Infanterie" (The J & I are interchangeable) The late .323" bore or caliber is indicated by an "S" for Spitzer-type.
Sporting ammunition in 8mm is labeled by the same system. The 8X57J or 1888 cartridge can be fired safely in the 1905 or "S" Bore, though accuracy is poor. However it is not safe
to fire the larger "S" (.323") bullet in the smaller "J" (.318" bore.

WARNING! Many J bore (.318") rifles still exist and will fire S bore (.323") cartridges, creating dangerous pressures.

HJN

Pointshoot
October 9, 2005, 08:50 AM
deleted

dfaugh
October 9, 2005, 09:05 AM
relatively inexpensive, and VERY accurate in my Mausers (assuming you have the .323 bore)---It is reloadeable(Boxer primed), however we have found case life to be poor, if that's any consideration

us.armysniper
October 9, 2005, 02:21 PM
Help!!!

I am very confussed, i have a czech vz24 and i am shooting the ammo that came with the rifle and it is doing fine but I am not sure what the exacts about it are, like the .323 or .318 or what ever, I just need to know what ammo i can put through this rifle. i only have about 50 rds left and that won't take long for me to blast away. Anybody out there with czech mauser, what do you guys use. Thanks I appreciate it greatly.

Dave Markowitz
October 9, 2005, 04:20 PM
Help!!!

I am very confussed, i have a czech vz24 and i am shooting the ammo that came with the rifle and it is doing fine but I am not sure what the exacts about it are, like the .323 or .318 or what ever, I just need to know what ammo i can put through this rifle. i only have about 50 rds left and that won't take long for me to blast away. Anybody out there with czech mauser, what do you guys use. Thanks I appreciate it greatly.

The VZ24 is chambered for 7.92x57mm JS ammunition, with .323" bullets. You can shoot any American commercial ammo, Sellier & Bellot commercial, and any milsurp.

us.armysniper
October 9, 2005, 04:28 PM
Thank you, thank you so much I didn't want to screw up my brand new rifle.That is good to know that any will do, that leaves alot of oppurtunitys open in the way of ammo. Now I know thanks again.

Davis
October 10, 2005, 09:30 AM
If I recall, wasn't the J really an I, but translated J because of Germanic script?

Davis

spacemanspiff
October 10, 2005, 10:47 AM
factory loads from Federal and Winchester (both 170 gr) chronied through my rem 700 classic at an average of 2200 fps, no spread to speak of, maybe 30 fps.

going to have to load your own if you want to utilize the cartridges full potential.

jefnvk
October 10, 2005, 01:51 PM
If I recall, wasn't the J really an I, but translated J because of Germanic script?

Something like that.

James K
October 11, 2005, 06:30 PM
Up to 1939, there was a single letter in German between H and K. Whether we call it an I or a J is not meaningful; it was one letter and was pronounced like our "Y" or "I" since there is no "J" (as in "John") sound in German. ("Jung" is pronounced "yoong"; "in" is pronounced like "een".)

As for the "bore diameter" of Mausers, the bore was the same, .311" in our measurements. What was changed in 1905 was the groove diameter and the bullet diameter, from .318" to .323". Deepening the grooves allowed a barrel to last longer.

When the Germans converted Model 1888 commission rifles to fire the "S" bullets and marked an "S" on the receiver, they did not rebarrel or rebore. All they did was expand the chamber throat to allow case neck expansion; the barrels are still .318" groove, .311" bore. (They also closed off the bottom hole in the magazine and fitted clip guides.) I have fired WWII German GI AP and ball in them with no problems, but for obvious reasons will not recommend it. As far as I can determine no small bullet ammunition or M1888 en bloc clips were issued in the German service in WWI or WWII; the standard 7.9 (.323" bullet) was issued for all use, in the standard "stripper" clips.

Now on the subject of 8mm. There were a whole bunch of rifle cartridges firing 8mm bullets. There were 8x50R Siamese Mauser, 8x52R Siamese Mauser, 8x58 Danish Krag, 8x50R Mannlicher, 8x50R Lebel, 8x53R Murata, 8x63 Swedish, 8x60R Guedes, 8x59 Bread, and 8x56R Hungarian Mannlicher, in addition to the German 8mm Mauser (8x57) and its derivative, the 8mm Kurz (7.9x33). Plus, of course, our 8mm-'06 and the 8mm Remington.

The 8x57mm Mauser itself has several names. In the civilian world, it is called the 8x57JS (J=Infantry, S=large bullet). In the German WWII military it was called the 7.9. There was a rimmed version for drillings, called the 8x57JRS (R=rimmed). The older rounds with the .318" bullet were called the 8x57J and its rimmed equivalent, the 8x57JR.

Jim

Brasso
October 11, 2005, 07:03 PM
Yeah, what he said. I think:eek:

...don't you feel cool to have such a neat round with so much history? I love it.:)

spacemanspiff
October 11, 2005, 07:12 PM
not just the round, but also the action has loads of history. probably more history than any other action ever made. has any other action been as prolific across the globe in as many different configurations of calibers and stocks?

DimitriS
October 11, 2005, 07:57 PM
Quick question what bullet does the FN SAFN49 shoot ?? I know that the model for the Egyptians was 8mm Mauser but I dont know what type of 8mm Mauser it is ?? :confused:

Thanks in advance for the reply!

Dimitri

I20N3Y
December 23, 2008, 04:12 AM
Hi,
I bought a mauser recently and my friend hand loaded a round for me in 8mm mauser and i was able to load/chamber/barrel it, but every other round (JRS/7.9|FS) i've bought, i cannot pull the bolt down, it seems these rounds are TOO long. is it possible my bore is .318 and i need to "slug" it? I have been researching like crazy and i would love some help, thanks! I want to know how to fix this, rebarrel, rechamber? so lost.

kraigwy
December 23, 2008, 11:37 AM
There are more 8mm's out there then you can shake a stick at. From pistols to magnums.

My current 8mm project is Restoring a 8X51 which was a game rifle (K), rotary mag. Mannlicher-Schoenauer. This was the .318 grove and to keep it original I have to find a .318 barrel blank, which isnt turning out to be easy.

Anyway, if one is interested in researching 8 mms (or any othe cart.) I recommed Ian V. Hogg's THE CARTRIDEG GUIDE.

It was orginally writen for the LE firearms indentifiication field (and the one I used when I was in the business) but its great for anyone else interested in cartridges. It saved me when I got my Remington Rolling block. There was no markings and I had no ideal what it was. I thought at first it was the .43 Mauser, but after casting the camber and taking measurments turns out it was the 44-90 Sharps Bottleneck.

I find this book much better then CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD, at least for the way I use them

kraigwy
December 23, 2008, 11:43 AM
I bought a mauser recently and my friend hand loaded a round for me in 8mm mauser and i was able to load/chamber/barrel it, but every other round (JRS/7.9|FS) i've bought, i cannot pull the bolt down, it seems these rounds are TOO long. is it possible my bore is .318 and i need to "slug" it? I have been researching like crazy and i would love some help, thanks! I want to know how to fix this, rebarrel, rechamber? so lost.

If you get me the measurements of the Riim, Base (just above the extractor grove, case lenght, and mouth, I can get you that information.

ForneyRider
December 24, 2008, 03:47 PM
I load for my brother's sporterized 8x57.

Anything over 30 caliber is expensive.

Load data is hard to come by for the 57,000PSI spec rounds. I have been using Nosler and Hogdgon for info. Varget is good. My loads are equivalent to .30-06, but with a .323 caliber over the .308 caliber. IMR-4064 works too. I have 125gr Hornady JHP and SP, 150gr Sierra Pro Hunter, 200gr Nosler Accubonds loaded. He wants some 220gr (Sierra or Speer) and 250gr Woodleighs. I think the 150gr Sierra Pro Hunter is great all around load for the 8x57, just as the 150gr is for .30-06. I swapped some bullets with a guy that gave me some load data for H4895 that was a bit faster than what I have now.

8x57 is between .308Win and .30-06 in length. It is a few grains smaller in powder capacity, compared to .30-06, but loads to a higher pressure, equating to more efficiency.

Federal, Winchester, and Remington have the low-po factory ammo. Norma and Prvi Partisan have the 196gr full-boogie loads. I use .323 bullets, which 8mm Remington Magnum, 8mm-06, and 325 WSM use. .318 is for the older gun.

Sierra (Pro Hunter, Match King, Game King), Speer Hot Cor, Hornady(various, mainly Spire), Nosler(Ballistic Tip, Partition, Accubond), Norma(196gr Vulcan, Alaskan, Oryx and 125gr FMJ), Prvi Partisan(bulk), Woodleigh make bullets.

Wiki info is pretty good for the 8x57: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8x57

Josh Smith
October 20, 2011, 04:31 AM
Hello,

Just figured it was about time for this thread to arise again. It's epic and has good info! :D

Jim Watson
October 20, 2011, 04:52 AM
Yes but it has some misinformation going back 11 years, too.
An 8mm JR or JRS is the RIMMED version, not usable in military Mausers.

Josh Smith
October 20, 2011, 04:54 AM
Yup, I noticed that.

Time to set it straight as this popped right up on Google!

Josh

Mike Irwin
October 20, 2011, 05:52 AM
Raising a thread and adding no information to it?

Not a good reason at all.

Closed.