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Rob Pincus
February 3, 2000, 03:03 AM
After reading an article several months ago about the 7400 as a possible police carbine, I got interested for the 99th time in buying one of these guns. So, while at my annual gun buying binge (aka SHOT) I ordered one and it came in today.

Does anyone have any experience with these guns? Particularly a recent model in .308?

I am going to put some type of Red Dot sight on it, most likely a Holo-Site to start with, because I have several lying around.

I'll report on it as soon as I get a chance to go shoot in above freezing weather!

TBeck
February 3, 2000, 12:53 PM
I own a 7400 in .30-06. It's my first rifle and as I am not a very good shot yet I can't evaluate accuracy. The gun is okay but the magazines seem to be a problem. I've had two remington mags that didn't function reliably. The magazines either shifted in the mag well or the followers bound in the magazine housing. I shoot rifle leftie and the controls are inconvenient. I also dislike the fact that to lock the action open an empty magazine must be in the gun. I'm looking to sell mine and get something a little more ambidextrous like a .30-30 carbine or the like. If you are interested let me know. I'm asking $300. That includes rings, one factory mag that works and two Triple K 10-rounders that work too.

DeBee
February 4, 2000, 12:57 AM
This rifle design is very finicky. Much like that damned cat Morris, you have to feed it properly- that is factory ammo it likes.

It is unusual for the 10 rd mags to work reliably but the factory mags never gave me a problem. The gun must be kept clean of course...

Remington is producing these in .308 again? That's a great gun. Is it configured for police work? Now they have to come back with the .35 Whelan...

Long Path
February 4, 2000, 01:29 AM
They're neat rifles, from what I've heard. I personally wonder why they only make the carbine in '06, and not also in .308. (See: http://www.remington.com/FIREARMS/centerfire/7400syn.htm ) Did you get it in sythetic or wood, Rob? Also, tell me you're improving on those short-radius open sights, and putting on a good receiver peep...!

Oops! I see you're looking at sticking a R.D. or holo on it... (I wouldn't, but then, you didn't ask me, did you? ;) ;))
M.G.

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited February 04, 2000).]

Rob Pincus
February 4, 2000, 02:43 AM
I was definitely going to do something with those sights..... I will probably put some type of Red Dot on it, otherwise it'll be sporting a reciever ghost ring....

I got the synthetic stock and it is actually very short. I was surprised, in fact I checked the label to make sure that I hadn;t gotten some "youth" gun! For what I had in mind, it'll be perfect. Not only does the Vest add a little to the shoulder, but the shorter stock will be easier to "throw up".

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

George Hill
February 4, 2000, 04:40 AM
Well, it looks very PC. You wont get the shocked looks you'ld get if you pulled out a Military looking rifle... Heavens know you don't want to startle the sheep in your herd!
Yet you must protect your flock... I think that would make a fine patrol rifle or trunk gun.
The Holo unit woud work good.
But you may want to consider instead a model of Red Dot sight that allows you to attach a magnifying scope unit... Because you may want to take advantage of the .308's balistic advantage and engage a target from an extended range. I know many folks who regularly do this out to 300+ yards buy in police work, you may need more precision at long range than a Holo would give you. Being able to screw on the telescope unit would give you that ability in only a few seconds. Bipods are over rated, so that can be left off. A good sling would be real nice too. Thats about it. Simple.

Good Choice.

------------------
I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

Rob Pincus
February 4, 2000, 01:36 PM
300+ yards? Sheesh, the city is only 9.2 square miles!

Seriously, this is purely an academic pursuit.

I haven't even really started preparing my 3" ring binder proposal about patrol carbines. Right now we are limited in the long gun department. That is to say, our shotguns are keep conveniently in a bag in our trunks under our emergency street sign, box of flares, duty bags of paperwork and quite often wedged under the spare tire. :(

MontaniSemperLiberi
February 4, 2000, 03:32 PM
Noticed that you may be considering the Rem. 7400 for "police" type work. Would highly suggest you consider some other form of weapon regardless of caliber. These rifles are notorious for "jammers" and do indeed have their share of problems. Talk to any long term gunsmith and he can far better explain the difficulties involved and why they are not the first choice of someone who is staking his life and others on the weapon. I am sure there are some out there, but I have never heard of a police/security force using the Rem semi auto in line of duty??

Long Path
February 4, 2000, 04:14 PM
Can't be *that* long-time-- as I understand it, this is a refinement of the good-ole 742. I suspect that much of the jamming was occuring from: [list][a]Use of ammo that that particular rifle didn't like(See DeBee's comments), and [b]Extensive rapid-fire (i.e. more than 2 mags in less than 1 minute.), which it was NOT designed to do.

But, I don't know. The rifle's reputation ain't bad...

Short, huh? 22" bbl and a 13 3/8" pull (which is the same as on my Sendero)... that's a full-sized rifle. (7.5 lbs, too!) I agree about liking the short lengths of pull; I was thinking about the Model 7 Youth as a handy TX hill-country carbine: http://www.remington.com/FIREARMS/centerfire/700adyth.htm I guess it doesn't bother me because, what with my orangutanian 39.25" sleeve-length, all stock-pulls are short for me. I'm with Col. Cooper on the concept of needing a short buttstock on a fast-handling carbine.

Be sure and snap a pic of it and post it when you've got the new sights on and a proper sling on it!

Regards,
Matt.

------------------
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt

Art Eatman
February 4, 2000, 06:19 PM
Welllll, I have a 742K in .30-'06 (wottinell else would Art have?) which works just fine, thank you.

It's done an occasional 1-1/2" group; digests factory ammo just fine, and hasn't griped at my handloads if I full-length resized the brass.

The various controls and monkey-motions take some getting used to.

While it's not the lightest gun I've ever carried, it recoils less than one might expect. I sorta like the critter; not sure why, exactly, but I do...

So I'd guess the 7400 might be cleaned up, inside, for better reliability...

FWIW, Art

Powermwt
February 5, 2000, 01:16 AM
I bought a synthetic 7400 carbine in 30-06 for my son last summer. I put on a Leupold Vari X II 3x9 and it can shoot sub moa groups for four rds for the first 2 mags. I was busy with his two brothers when he told me he must be getting tired as he was shooting larger groups. After the boy put 40 rds thru the rifle we had groups out to 2". The rifle has had only one malfunction and that was trying to shoot some Greek surplus thru it. The gun would shoot it but the case would have to be knocked out. The extractor was pulling a piece of the rim off(that ammo now is only used in my garand). As far as reloads go, the 7400 carbine we have shoots 150 gr. Nosler BT consistently between 3/4" and 1-1/4" as long as you wait for it to cool down. This was with LC 62 match and 4064. I bought some 5 and 10 rd USA mags for it and had to return them as they wouldn't seat. Remington mags just came in the mail last week so I will see if they work. The boy likes the rifle. I do too. MWT

Rob Pincus
February 5, 2000, 02:37 AM
Like I said, this rifle is NOT going to be riding in my patrol car anytime soon. I am planning on putting it through some testing for such a role though......

I haven't measured the length of pull (I'm more of a "feel" guy than a "measure" guy... just ask my wife... ;)), but it sure seems shorter than the average rifle.

On the topic of the barrel, I was seriously considering having it cut and recrowned at somewhere between 16 and 18 inches. I know that there are arguments on both sides that make sense. The reality is that most of the arguments against cutting it down (muzzle velocity, long range accuracy) might be of less concern to me than overall wieght and handiness....

Schmit
February 5, 2000, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally Posted by Rob
I'm more of a "feel" guy than a "measure" guy... just ask my wife... [/quote]

Oh OH... It is taking MAJOR self-control not to post on THAT statement! ;)



------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

Art Eatman
February 5, 2000, 05:48 PM
In other words, Schmit, "If it feels good, shoot it!" ain't apropos?

:), Art

labgrade
February 5, 2000, 09:01 PM
Cutting it down probably isn't going to affect handiness, etc. much except for going through doorways & for that, you'd be better suited with a shotgun. Actually, having the rifle a bit bbl heavy will do you best in the long run.

Never even seen a 74XX on any range (no flames) so no comment there. But, (& here I go) the pump models are (can be) a dream. I've an old 760 30-06 that'll do 1/2 MOA with factories & will out perform (speed-wise) any semi-auto. Too, the Rem pumps are totally free-floated & (can) deliver amazing groups.

'Course, I'm from the old school. In the hands of a user, the pumps will out-perform (most) semis any day.

Rob Pincus
February 6, 2000, 03:32 AM
I have a 760 .30-06 as well, and it is a great gun.. but we can;t always count on having two arms free.....

I am not a big fan of weapon mounted lights, and pumping while holding a flashlight under stress..... well, you get the point :).

223sniper
February 6, 2000, 08:51 AM
don't buy a 7400 they have problems and always have FTFs. If you want a police carbine buy your self an AR15 and some 20 and 30 round mags. also the 10 round mags for the 7400 are made by usa mags and they suck big time. 223sniper

Long Path
February 7, 2000, 02:59 AM
Um, .223Sniper, I'm pretty sure that Rob has access to AR's if he wants them. What the man wants is a handy, low-profile, high-powered semi-auto rifle. While AR's can be terrifically accurate and very sturdy, they're not .30-'06's. Also, a personal rifle pressed into police use invites it to be somewhat abused (note trunk-wear), and an AR at least doubles the price of a 7400. Extended rapid fire is unlikely. Short-term rapid-fire, however, is possible in police work.

I'm VERY much in favor of HP rifles in every patrol car, and training given to every officer on how to use it. That foolishness in LA a couple of years ago would have easily been stopped by ONE man with a '94 .30-30, had he taken his time and minded his trigger squeeze. All the better had it been a rifle like Rob's new one, that seems to exemplify his need to qualify rather than quantify, in life! :) :) ;) :) :) ;)

Rob--
are you and I the ONLY ones who aren't crazy about gun-mounted flashes? I guess they're okay if you have a second flash as well, but then we're getting unnecessarily bulky. I've seen more 870's set up with that super-bright halogen on the fore-end and thought, "but now your hands are completely full of weapon, all the time!" With the pressure-sensitive switch, one has to turn out the light to open the door!

I don't dispute going to a shorter barrel length (heck, my gunsmith will cut and recrown for under $30!), but I'd stick with 18", in a tiny effort to get that blast a little further from my face. It's... um, LOUD! You'll be surprised at the good you'll get by losing 4"... (What am I doing talking measurements to a man who doesn't go by measure, but rather "by feel?" :))...and you can always hack off the last 2", should you really want to. It's easy to take some off, but it's hell getting those inches back on...!

L.P.

223sniper
February 7, 2000, 02:34 PM
Want more power then buy an AR10. i still say the 7400 sucks and so do the mags. just my .02

Rob Pincus
February 7, 2000, 09:49 PM
....and thank you very much for your comments, 223sniper.


Longpath,


I don't think you were involved, but several of us went round-n-round last year about the weapon mounted lights. I really don't like them, some people really do. Particuarly, I see a big difference between an entry team's use of them (understandable) and a guy mounting one on his home defense gun (not)... I shudder at the idea of some guy (no matter how well trained) using the light on the end of his 870 or attached to his Glock to search the house with his little kids creeping around. Flashlights on Guns inevitably lead to violating one of the most basic rules of gun handling: Don't cover something you don't want to destroy!

Oh, and yes, you were correct about my access to ARs. Three of them are especially accessable in fact, ;).

------------------
-Essayons

George Hill
February 8, 2000, 06:28 AM
One thing that makes the 7400 a good option is that is looks mundane. An HK Nine sumthin looks aggressive... An FAL looks fearsome... An AR 10 or some such looks like a SEAL TEAM reject... Not the type of weapon a regular joe snuffy police office needs to have. Especially if the Officer is talking to the subjact over the rifle sights saying things like "Just put it down, and we can talk this out." Thats a hard sell.
A 7400 doesnt look like a gun to shoot people with - so the sell would not be hindered that way...
Just some thoughts.

Oh - 223sniper, The world doesnt revolve around that old Stoner design. Get your hands on some other rifles. Like Baskin Robins - they got 31 famous flavors. Try some new ones... Dont just order Chocolate every time.
I like "Butter Pecan" by the way. :D

------------------
I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

Long Path
February 8, 2000, 04:25 PM
Rob, you hit the nail on the head re: weapon-mounted lights. For the home-owner... flip on a freakin' light switch! For the cop, it is a TERRIBLE attitude to assume, both physically and mentally, when you're setting yourself up to point the muzzle of your weapon at EVERY little thing that needs looking at. Rule Two gets thrown out the window!

.223 Sniper--- perhaps you had a bad experience with a bad one? I feel like I know Rob pretty well over the last 11 months, and he won't field a gun that isn't reliable.

When I went through academy, there was a guy who shot beside me on the range during qualifications that had a Ruger P-89, that he'd bought new, in the box. This poor guy couldn't reliably finish a single magazine without a jam or stoppage. We started calling his pistol the "Crunchentikker Jammin Shootur." For a long time after that, nothing good could be said about Ruger auto-pistols in my presence. Then a friend, against my advice, bought a P-89 and a P-90, which I shot extensively. I still didn't like the way they felt or the way the trigger felt, but that stuff's subjective. The fact was that these new specimens were stone-cold reliable pistols, that could be depended on to defend a man for many years of service. Never a jam. I had, of course, formed my previous conclusions on a tiny sampling, and on my personal prejudices, which happen to run more toward embracing 1911's. ANY factory can occasionally turn out a lemon. ;)

I completely hold with George on not exacerbating a possibly bad situation with a mean-looking gun. (And I KNOW how your tastes run, George, so I don't believe for a second that you're skeered of a "black rifle!")

For several years, the car rifle of a family member who's a 30-year cop has been a Pre-'64 Trapper .30-30 with Lyman peeps on it. Yes, his Car-15 would serve the same purpose, and perhaps better, if the shooting starts, but when he pulls the old thutty-thutty out, this man doesn't look at all like someone looking for a fight; he merely looks like someone prepared to finish one, if he has to. On at least one occasion that I'm familiar with, that general look has probably kept him from having to drop the hammer. (The quote from the escapee to his friend was,"No! No! Stop! That old fart will kill us!")

Gotta run to class!

Rob Pincus
February 9, 2000, 12:24 AM
George,

You can ruin anything! Just when I was ready to give this rifle a serious consideration as a patrol carbine, you go and make it sound mundane.
Sorry, but it just won't fit with my own sense of LE Style. Why partner up with Murtaugh when you can have Riggs! ;)


Of course, you are correct, the rifle is very well suited to "blend" with normal patrol duties.
The Citizenry would certainly shriek if Ofc. Snuffy rolled out of Car 54 wearing a Nomex hood and carrying an MP5SD to every domestic situation!

The realtively new Ruger Police Carbine also blends in better than an AR, even though it has a protruding magazine.

Our Chief is more likely to consider the pistol caliber rifle as an issue item, but a few of us are preparing a concerted effort to lobby for a qualification/certification process for privately owned patrol rifles, much like we have for privately owned back-up/off duty weapons.

------------------
-Essayons

George Hill
February 9, 2000, 10:36 AM
Mundane?
Dude - your looking for Vanilla - your going to get Vanilla.
Thems ol'rifles look better with some good ol'walnut any hows.

------------------
I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

Long Path
February 9, 2000, 01:38 PM
Rob--

One of the coolest things our County ever did was put a Mini-14 in every car, and have ever patrol deputy qualify with it. I agree that an honest-to-Gawd HP rifle needs to be available. The point of a rifle is precision, so over-penetration isn't really a problem. After all, you're carefully calling your targets and shots. I really don't see much benefit to pistol carbines for police work. Tell me where its job isn't better-served by either a large duty pistol, a shotgun properly set up, or a rifle. It doesn't have the handiness of a pistol, the power of a shotgun, nor the accuracy or killing power of a rifle. :p

Gotta agree with George-- you go looking for vanilla, then grow disturbed at the realization that it's not chunky?!? :) Give it a trigger job, put a good sling on it, chop the barrel 2" and recrown it, put on good sights, and name your new carbine "French Vanilla," to make it sound exotic. Or "Vanilla Bean." :)

M.G.

George Hill
February 10, 2000, 06:36 AM
LP - your right, I aint skeered - especially if you guys were the ones holding it. Now if J. Reno was holding it - then I would be.
Dumb wench wouldnt know what to do with it and it might go off!

Rob's Cafe Vanilla Carbine may look plain jane - but I doubt a target would feel the difference. I kinda like the CVC gun idea - it would be an easier sell to departments that distain from rifles that have any sort of style to them.
:D

------------------
I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

Long Path
February 10, 2000, 05:59 PM
Yeah, put it in a dove-grey stock with matte non-reflective stainless or a matte parkerized finish, shorten the barrel, put only leather slings on it, and call it "C.V.C.-- the police carbine of good taste." (Meanwhile, it hits just as hard and as fast as the first 10 rounds out of George's new FAL!)

"...For the discriminating marksman, in times of trouble..."

:)

George, we should've been in Marketing!

George Hill
February 11, 2000, 02:45 AM
CVC's in smaller calibers such as .223 could be called "Decaf".

I think I like that... :D

Lets start our own gun company... Marketing would be fun as hell in this field!

Hmmmm - would would you call a Mocha?

------------------
I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!

Long Path
February 11, 2000, 02:57 PM
Ever seen the brownish-green parkerization on some of the older UZIs? (nah-- too brutish!)

How 'bout color-case-hardened receiver and extra-deep blued barrel in a laminated wood stock, with a deep brown (or Cordovan?) hand-stitched leather sling, with perhaps some tasteful carving at the ends of the sling. Oh, yes-- it's preferred cartridge would be Winchester Failsafe, because of the added "flavor" of the nickel cases and black moly bullets. (!) I only think I'm joking, here...

Set up like Rob's getting his, with black synthetic stock and blued finish (needs to be black parkerized...)with a black web Supersling, it would be an Espresso. With 18" or shorter barrel, it would be a Demitasse.

A blonde-wood laminated stock version in stainless with a stock-mounted light, a Sidekick holder for an extra magazine on the right side of the stock, a padded sling, a custom trigger, and 50mm scope with fittings for nightscope, it'd be:

The Latte, with extra Foam and Sprinkles! ("Be sure and use extra steam in that! Do y'all still offer the Nutmeg and Cinnamon Bedding option?")

:) :) ;) :)

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited February 11, 2000).]

Rob Pincus
February 11, 2000, 07:15 PM
You guys are Freaks.

Rob Pincus
February 11, 2000, 07:24 PM
You guys are Freaks.

Long Path
February 12, 2000, 01:30 PM
^
|
|
|


Thereby PROVING that Rob enjoys the double-tap capability of the Remington 7400... :)

:D
[gotcha!]

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited February 12, 2000).]

Bullwhip
February 12, 2000, 06:09 PM
Sorry to break in here but as you all have shot a 7400: any advice?

I am very interested in getting a 7400 in 30-06 as my own first deer rifle (shot borrowed .243's and a .270).

On the used market is there much chance of one of these being "shot out" more so than a bolt?

How does the recoil compare(i.e. 7400 30-06 = .270 bolt?)

Is there a particular archive or thread that anyone recommends?

Any comments would be helpful.

George Hill
February 14, 2000, 06:48 AM
No - I never shot the 7400...
I just like the taste!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I kill me...
ROTFLMAO!

Rob - you started this!

Long Path
February 14, 2000, 01:43 PM
Dunno how heavy the .270 was that you shot or which weight bullets you used, so it's kinda hard to compare, but generally, 180-grainers out of a .30-'06 7400 are going to feel a lot like 130 grainers ("smooth and creamy," to Kodiac/George!) out of a .270 bolt-action. That's a pretty nice reduction of recoil, thanks to a medium-weight rifle with gas-operated action.

Now, if you were shooting 150g bullets ("crunchy" to K/G) out of a light sporter or featherweight .270 bolt-gun, you're in for a treat; any '06 round out of a 7400 is bound to be substantially less felt recoil than that load/rifle combo.

So, the lesson, kids, is that the 7400 is the tool to help a man give up decaf rifles! :)

(Somebody stop me before I hijack another thread...)

L.P.