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Strabs
January 29, 2000, 09:19 PM
I am looking to purchase(in .308 Win., stainless) either a Rem. 700 VS or Win. 70 to have built into a scout/utility rifle. My questions are:

Is it a good idea to have the action reworked,polished,etc...including a trigger job?

What kind of performance can be expected from a 16" vs. 18" vs. 20"?(I would like the entire rifle as compact as possible) Along with that, what twist to consider? Bullet weights & stability? Being that I want a compact rifle that is comfortable to carry,sling, or strap to a pack for extended periods of time...would a heavy/bull barrel come back and haunt me?

In regard to the last question, is it possible to have the factory barrel cut down in size(professionally of course), crowned, sights installed, teflon coated, etc... and still expect its original performance/ accuracy(aside from any muzzle velocity/ distance changes due to a shorter barrel)?
-OR is it best to get a brand new barrel installed with the above options from a company specializing in barrels, and not mess with the original barrel? Would either choice matter at all? Where would be a good recommendation to have such work done?

Stocks are o.k. on both, but if I decide to change I'll probably go w/McMillan.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Art Eatman
January 30, 2000, 02:45 PM
I'll let other speak to particulars about makes of guns.

You could have the bolt-face trued. The Remington is said to have a very good adjustable trigger "as is", but a little extra polishing never hurt most factory guns.

Polishing the bolt and the rails of the action makes the reloading smoother.

Published rifle velocities are usually taken with 26" barrels. The average loss per inch of barrel is around 70 fet/sec per inch of shortening. However, the case design of the .308, and the use of Ball powder, seems to reduce this somewhat. I do not know how much better the .308 does in this regard, but there ain't no magic.

From the standpoint of balance and feel, you are probably best off with a 20" barrel, compared to a shorter barrel. If the work is done properly, shortening a barrel should not affect inherent accuracy of the gun. Bedding in the stock is proably the most important feature for accuracy.

For a rifle used primarily for hunting, a ten-shot group of 1" is meaningless. A three-shot group inside an inch is more realistic, since the odds are that if you miss the first shot, you'll miss the rest as well. A hit and then a coup-de-grace is more the norm. I'd stay away from a heavy barrel.

I can tell you that at the end of a day, a seven-pound rifle weighs 50 pounds less than a nine-pound rifle. If you're a walking hunter, and not an Olympic runner, you have to deal with the problem of wavering around from deep breathing--at least occasionally. Anything under seven pounds will be a problem in this regard, unless it's somewhat muzzle-heavy. Of course, the forward-mount position of the Scout's scope helps in this regard.

Hope this helps, Art

DeBee
January 30, 2000, 03:04 PM
I strongly encourage your project of building a handy .308

I have been working on a parallel project since June. The design details are as follows:

Finding and employing a stainless short action Winchester Classic .308- not the featherweight- trimming the barrel to 20". Plenty of "service rifles" use a 20" barrel and performance variables are moot in this application. I wouldn't go any shorter or heavier...

The mandatory trigger job, necessary on most every factory rifle today, for discriminating shooters like ourselves... Recessed crown, Pillar bed, Dehorn safety. I believe the non-featherweight synthetic stocks on the Winchesters are McMillan so no change is necessary.

I have procured the last Warne Rear Peep base in the factory and the appropriate front base- Warne QD rings will follow although Weaver rings work in an emergency... Front sight is Winchester factory but I can't find a simple post to install in the dovetail.

Not a Scout- but rather a "Snout" or "sniper scout" or "Quick Reaction Rifle".

The short action stainless Remingtons and Winchesters are hard to find right now...

Another design: Get the Remington ADL Synthetic Youth in .308- I bet you can get one cheap because of the name... But this is an excellent basis for a Scout type rifle. Most of the work is done for you and you can spend the money on bullets and optics. 20" barrel, shortened LOP on synthetic stock is standard- recrown if you must, pillar bed, and trigger job. Epoxy in the Pachymar swivels and get a Ching sling...

I'm going to try to mount the longest ARMS Swan Sleeve over the Remington action extending well beyond the front receiver ring. This will give me infinite optics mounting options (traditional scopes, red dots, scout scopes, pistol scopes) as well as an excellent rear peep... now how high does the front sight have to be??? Maybe mill out the section over the bolt ??? Perhaps cut it into two pieces???

See MadDog's LURCUR rifle design, or the AWC Nomad, Robar QR2, and do a search on Scout rifles on this forum for more reading.

Rob Pincus
January 30, 2000, 09:09 PM
Use the Search function and you can see the details of the Psuedo-Scout that I built a few years ago on a Remington 700. I used the Factory 700 18" Synthetic .308.

Accessories:

Galco 3 point leather sling
Galco ammo carrier sleeve
Harris Bipod
Burris 1.5x Scout scope
Burris Scout scope base & quick detach system.
Trijicon front site
Williams ghost ring rear site.

I think we figured that the retail package would cost around $700.

I used it almost exclusively for two hunting seasons and one of the deer I shot would definitely not have been hit so easily with a traditionally scoped rifle. He came under the stand from the "wrong" side and was only about 25 yards away, but I had a cedar tree about 10 feet from me.... the scout system came in really handy that day!

Good Luck.

------------------
-Essayons

George Hill
January 31, 2000, 06:07 AM
Hmmm... after all that, I think I might as well just buy the Steyer like Jeff said.
LOL

------------------
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

Strabs
January 31, 2000, 07:44 PM
I have noticed that .308 chambered rifles in stainless are very limited lately. I would like to use a well known/common workhorse like the Win. M70 or Rem. 700 (they seem to be more commonly modified and time tested) but they're anything but common now (at least in .308).

For this specific project what kind of thoughts are out there on using a Ruger stainless short action or a Savage model (if they make em in stainless). I'm not very familiar with them, and I want something as durable and workable (field maint.,parts replacement,smithing, etc...) as the Winchesters and Remingtons.

TAckerman
February 2, 2000, 01:50 AM
2 years ago I built my Scout Rifle and I love it. It is the epitomy of a Rifle that can do everything a rifle needs to do.

Configuration:
-Remington 700 BDL barreled receiver
-Cut to 18 1/2" and recrown
-Install original front sight with custom post in front of the extended mounted Scope.
-Install Burris Scout Scope mount
-Install Leupold 2.5X Scout Scope
-Install MMC Ghost Ring Back up rear sight in original rear base holes
-Mount HS Precision "Pro Series" stock (which is the same stock Remington uses on their PSS and VS) Their stock for the BDL is shorter and lighter.
-Install Galco "Ching Sling" in Millet flush mount swivel studs. (Pachmayer also sells these) Mount one on the front, one just ahead of the magazine port and one in the rear for 3 point "Ching Sling" configuration.
-Install Galco 5 round leather butt ammo carrier.
-Lap bolt and action with fine grit lapping compound and clean thoroughly
-Lap Scope Rings for uniform fit fore and aft
-Adjust factory trigger to desired pull weight. ( The factory triggers ar more than adequate for field work.)
-Reblue after barrel work and additional holes have been drilled and tapped to accept scope mount and front sight

Overall weight loaded is 7 1/2 lbs and man does it shoot!

Practical range...300 yds. (Sighted in at a 200 yd. zero)

Before mounting the Scout Scope, I installed a Leupold 4.5 X 14 and fired sub 1/2 minute groups at 200 yards from a professional style Bench Rest.

This is the perfect one rifle if you can only have one.

As for the Steyer Scout Rifle...
Too funky looking and too expensive...... (>$2500.00)

My rifle cost about $1200 with gunsmith doing barrel resizing, crowning, drilling/ tapping and rebluing. I installed scope mount, studs, rear ghost ring, stock and leather.

I fire a 168 Gr. Sierra Match bullet with 44.5 gr of WW 748 and Federal LR primers in Federal Match Brass. Stable? Yes!

As far as barrels go...I have over 5,000 rounds through an original Remington 700 VS and it will still shoot sub 1/2 minute groups. Unless you are a Bench Rest shooter, custom barrels are highly over rated. I used to be one!

The Remington factory barrels are vey good. Don't let anyone tell you differently. I have owned 4 and swear by them. It is no problem to cut and recrown them and if done properly, accuracy will not sufer appreciably. (Less than 1/10th inch at 100 yds.)

Forgive me for my frank opinions. However, they are based on thousands of rounds in field and Bench Rest applications.

I love this rifle and will never part with it.

PS, If you want a traditional Scout, Gunsight will build you one with the bases milled into the barrel. Very slick!

Thanx for reading,
ACK