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View Full Version : What is a realistic group with factory ammo?


Dikyllis
January 9, 2000, 07:15 AM
I don't reload, (YET), and I've been told that the best group I can expect from my Rem 700 PSS is going to be about 3 inches with factory ammo. Is this true? What brand/type of .308 ammo should I use for the best groups?

Gale McMillan
January 9, 2000, 08:49 AM
Premium ammo like the top line of Federal will give 1.25 to 1.5 out of a out of the box Rem. In most rifles. Some worst. Bed the rifle and it helps . Both rifle and Ammo are adequate for general hunting

David Schmidbauer
January 9, 2000, 08:55 AM
:rolleyes: Don't know who you heard this from but they may be suspect for drug use. It's not right. It is true that the quality of ammo will effect group size but it is more the quality of the rifle that is going to effect group size. (i.e. you can shoot good groups with a good rifle and bad ammo, but you cant shoot good groups with a bad rifle and great ammo)

With my AWP even with factory soft point hunting ammo I can keep groups about way less then 3". With the PSS I'd probably expect just about the same.

I've been told by numerous people in the know that the quality of todays "Match" grade ammo is hard to beat reloading. It can be done but it takes time. Ammo manufactures realized that there is a market for this type ammo and have met the demand.

Almost any factory "match" ammo will serve you well, you just need to find the one that you PSS likes the best. My AW perfers Federal Match or Military Lake City.



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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited January 09, 2000).]

Ldoll
January 9, 2000, 08:58 AM
I don't own 700 PSS nor do I know any one that does. I own a Winchester M 70 heavy varminter in .308 and use factory Hornady TAP ammo. I shot sub MOA at 100 yards out of the box. From what I heard about the 700 PSS it is supposed to be an accurate rifle. I'm thinking about getting one myself. Good luck with it.
If you respond to this post, I have two quick questions about the 700 PSS. Does it have beavertail forend and if so, how wide is it and what is the barrel diameter at the muzzle?


[This message has been edited by Ldoll (edited January 09, 2000).]

Mikey
January 9, 2000, 09:56 AM
In my own personal experience, almost any good bolt gun with good factory ammo and good optics will beat 3" or even 1.5" at 100 yards if the shooter is up to it. I quit handloading several years ago because the volume of ammo I shoot is way less than it used to be. Also because modern factory ammo is difficult to beat without considerable effort at the loading press.

Most of my experience has been with Ruger Rifles but Remington should perform at least as well. All my scopes are at least 9x and some are up to 24x. From sandbags, on a stable bench, I have only owned three rifles that wouldn't shoot 1 MOA or better (most better) and they were sold or traded. The poor shooters were a Ruger Mini-14, Remington 742, and a Ruger M77 International (full length stock).

I have had, or seen, consistent sub MOA performance from two Ruger No. 1's, several Ruger M77 sporter weight rifles, two Remington 660's, Remington 700 BDL Varmint, three Ruger M77VT's, Remington 788 and a Browning A-Bolt. I'll even throw in an AR-15!

Your PSS ought to shoot at least 1 MOA if it has good optics, a stable platform to shoot from, Premium factory ammo and a shooter behind it. Post your results here, inquiring minds want to know...

Mikey

sundog
January 9, 2000, 11:04 AM
schmit and mikey are on target. considering you have ammo and firearm of relatively consistent quality the biggest problem is sighting device. second is the shooting platform. in other words, can you see the target and hold steady enough to hit it? then, can you repeat the process? next, how many rounds are that group? three, five, ten? group size will normally increase with number of rounds fired. i shoot a lot of 'as issued' military bolt rifle matches. a ten round group at 100 yards under two inches is really good! same rifle with a scope can probably shoot a ragged hole, don't know, never tried. group size is only relative to all of the variables involved. just a few thoughts. sundog

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safety first

Art Eatman
January 9, 2000, 06:08 PM
I sure got no argument with the above comments.

In my .243, Federal ammo with the 85-grain Sierra HPBT bullet will shoot 1/2"-3/4".

In my .30-'06, I find some factory ammo will shoot 3/4" to 1-1/4". But, I bought some Winchester Silvertip cheap from WalMart, one time, that wasn't worth using for other than plinking--at big targets.

Overall, in a decent rifle, most factory ammo oughta group inside 1-1/2"...

FWIW, Art

Josh D
January 9, 2000, 07:21 PM
Out of the box AR15's will regularly shoot less than 2". Many will shoot just over 1in. Remember, this is an out of the box rifle, no custom this and that, just straight stock.

I have a magzine that Colt sent me. In it is a review of the M4, and a police officer in it says that his will shoot 1.1 inches with 55grn softpoint factory ammo. This is a stock rifle, factory ammo, COLLAPSABLE STOCK, and a 16.1 inch barrel.

If you hear someone say "assault rifles can't shoot" they don't know what they are talking about.

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Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!

Peter M. Eick
January 9, 2000, 07:56 PM
My M1A SuperMatch will do about 3/4" with Federal Match ammo on a calm day at 100 yds and 10 rnd magazine off a good benchrest. My M1A National Match will do about 7/8" with the same ammo and 10 shots. For match grade guns I consider this reasonable and expected with match factory ammo.

Now, my 700 BDL SS 7-08 with 140 grn soft points will usually do just over an inch with a magazine (5rnds) full. With 120 grn soft points it does a bit worse about 1.25" at 100 yrds. Again this is with a very steady benchrest, on a calm day using every bench rest shooting trick I have seen or read about.

Hope this helps.

Dikyllis
January 9, 2000, 09:46 PM
Ldoll, the palm swell on my 700 PSS is nearly 2 inches, and the diameter of the barrel at the muzzle is .75 of an inch. I've equipped it with a Harris bipod and am currently shopping for an optic for this beast! I'll take my time, it's only Jan. and here in OH we've still got a few months of cold weather to endure. I don't know if this will have any impact on your decision to purchase a 700 PSS or not but I've been hearing rumors that many police forces are pushing Remington for a lighter/ shorter gun with a more streamlined stock than the 700 PSS. Perhaps something more like the 700 Light Tactical. I was told that the 700 PSS may not be available much longer. This could have also been a lie told by a gun salesman in the hopes of a sale!!!

[This message has been edited by Dikyllis (edited January 09, 2000).]