View Full Version : Obsolite military bolt action rifle tactical shooting

Andrew Wyatt
September 13, 2002, 10:01 PM
several months ago, my father and I came up with the idea of putting on a match for obsolite military bolt action rifles.

the rules are as follows:

participants are strongly encouraged to use LBE appropriate to their weapon. (for springfield shooters this means american WWII web equipment, for enfields this means pattern 37 web equipment, etc.)

Rifles must be obsolite military bolt action rifles (no m1's or any other semi auto of any kind) in military trim. aftermarket aperature sights are allowed, along with telescopic sights of a historically correct type. heavily sporterized and match rifles that just happen to be based on military bolt actions will be frowned upon.

Handguns may sometimes be required in some mateches, and while we'd prefer that everyone shoot with a period piece, we know that not everyone has a bone stock military 1911 or browning Hi power.(or a webley or a PPK or luger or broomhandle mauser)

Pistols shall be weapons that were in widespread military or civillian use in 1945 or before or their nearest available equivallent. We ask that no compensators, extended mag wells or other imparactical doodads be present on the pistols.
Pistols must be of .32 caliber or larger.

Any DA revolver may be used, within reason. (ideally it should be in a caliber and guise in widespread use before 1945)

Holsters for handguns should be a "field" type, preferably of a type in use during or before 1945. poslet pistols like the walther PPK and j-frame snubbies may be drawn from a pocket.

Every match should include the lord robert's match, modified with the substitution of an IDPA sihlouette target for the 36 inch bullseye.

What do you guys think? Worth coming up with some more codified rules and posting stages of fire on a website?
would any of you be interested in it?

September 14, 2002, 12:56 PM
I'd be interested but getting people together to shoot up here has been difficult lately.

Andrew Wyatt
September 15, 2002, 03:18 PM
I know. we promoted our first OMBAR match on the WC3gun mailing list and only had a grand total of about six people show up.
it was pretty disheartening. :P

September 15, 2002, 06:19 PM
The best way to get a bolt rifle match going is to set it up like sporting clays. You have to shoot a course of fire with partially hidden targets and no prior walk thrus. All loading has to be from cover. Walk by a target and get the "Your'e dead" call.

Andrew Wyatt
September 17, 2002, 05:52 PM
Well, walking by a target wouldn't be that common of an occurance, as the targets would be at real rifle range away from the shooter, unless it was a close range stage, which would hopefully not be to common.

Our first OMBAR match was a three stager, with the first stage being the old Lord robert's match (british rifle qualification course) With an IDPA cardboard sihoulette as the target at 300 yards. The shooter had one minute to put as many hits on the target in that time as he could. (the standard was 15 rounds on the target in that time)

the second stage was a setup where shooters had to engage targets that appeared over a berm at 200 yards (each target came up at a random location and for a random time interval)

and the third stage was the old Alvin york stage, where the shooter had to make headshots on three 6 inch knockdown targets at about 25 yards, then draw their pistol and engage 9 IDPA sihoulette targets at ranges from 25 to anout 3 yards, farthest target first.

Steve Smith
September 19, 2002, 08:53 AM
Why farthest target first when one is a 3 YARDS?

September 19, 2002, 09:28 AM
Steve, York fired on a body of advancing German soldiers. He took them from the rear, to the front. Shoot the lead, the rest see it, and take cover. If you shoot the trailer, the rest do not realize they are being decimated. Risky, but he had the guts and marksmanship to pull it off.

Simulating this with movers would be better, but hard to do. The 3 yard target simulates the last one left.


Steve Smith
September 19, 2002, 09:34 AM
I understand taking the last one if no one knows where you are. If you are defending and the enemy knows where you are, you should start with the closest, period, whether you are Sgt. York or not. Take out the closest, and you wind up giving yourself more distance from the danger each time a man falls. Doesn't make sense. I understand that the scenario is to simulate getting the last guy just as he reaches you, but if you took them out in the order as I would, your last guy would be at 25 yards, not 3. Besides, if they are running right to you (guy at 3 yards knows where you are) wouldn't they run for cover anyway?

September 19, 2002, 12:14 PM
I fired a Luger the other day and the thing shot 3 feet high at 15 yards. York probably was aiming at the nearest guy and hit the furthest guy...

Andrew Wyatt
September 19, 2002, 11:53 PM
Well, first off, york used a 1911, contrary to what was protrayed in the movie. (his rifle was a 1917). secondly, It's a perfectly period correct excercise and it teaches a useful skill.

Steve Smith
September 20, 2002, 12:04 AM
You know what happens when a guy at 3 yards stops charging? He cuts your throat.

Andrew Wyatt
September 20, 2002, 12:37 AM
Read up on alvin york's story sometime.

Steve Smith
September 20, 2002, 09:05 AM
I have no doubt that York's story is true. That doesn't mean that its an example of what to do if you're in the same situation.

September 21, 2002, 11:42 PM
I'm in Long Beach of the PDSR California. I do know the way to Bakersfield, but I need a week or two notice. When is your next shoot?

Oh, I can get there on Saturday, but not Sunday. I pastor a church.

Odd how people want to argue with success. The reason Sgt. York shot the farthest one first is, they were performing a bayonet charge; if the front ones realized they were being shot, they would have stopped charging and shot back.
Not even Sgt. York, not even John Wayne could take out five riflemen at once.

September 22, 2002, 02:22 AM
We have a vintage military bolt action rifle match at our club every month. The rules however are somewhat different than yours. You must use a gun that has no external mods. Any internal work much use the original parts. Iron sights only. The course of fire is different every month. The match director comes up with some fun stuff. The last one I attended we have to fire from a port in a bunker while we held a potato masher grenade in one hand. Another interesting thing is that he has a fun match after the regular match. Two teams are chosen based on what rifle you are shooting Axis or Allies. We have shot bowling pins as a team even where you all shoot at five pins, once they are down you then all shoot at the center pin. First team to knock down all the pins wins. Another match was called sniper. Two teams, you got to pick a guy on the other team to be "it". Then you fired one shot at something like 300 yards from prone. If you hit it, the guy that is "it" was dead. But he has a chance to live again by taking an off hand shot at 200 yards. If he hit it, he was back in. Last man standing wins. I know they are shooting similar matches in Utah and Arizona.

Andrew Wyatt
September 22, 2002, 02:52 AM
I'll be sure to post the location and date for the next match here on TFL.

it'l probably be at Desert marksman range (lancaster) again, since we usually end up doing this sort of stuff for the SCTC guys.

there will probably not be any pistolshooting this year, unfortunately. (this doesn't mean you should feel like you have to leave yours at home, of course)