View Full Version : Advice on filling out the form 4

Daren Thompson
August 28, 2002, 03:39 PM
Hey I just purchased my first full auto, an UZI smg. The deal is an in state transfer so I do not need a dealer, but I have never filled a Form 4 out before. I have ordered the form off of the ATF website (does antone know how long this takes?), taken two passport photos, and made 1 fingerprint card. I know I still need to get my Sherrif to sign off when I get the form. I do not believe this will be a problem. Is there anything else that I am forgeting? Can antone give me any advice to make the transfer go smoothly?


Johnny Guest
August 28, 2002, 05:10 PM
Let's see - - -

Make sure the fingerprints are clear and unsmeared.

Are the photographs you provide within the proper size range?

In section 15, on the back of the Form 4, it asks for "a reasonable necessity to poossess the . . . described on this application for the following reason(s)" Don't get too fancy here. Simply, "Addition to my personal collection" is perfectly adequate and doesn't raise any red flags - - -At least there's been no problems with any I've handled for my sheriff.

Payment of the tax - - -Contrary to what you might think, it is better to send a personal check for the $200 than a money order or bank check. There will be plenty of time for your check to clear - - It won't slow the process at all, AND your cancelled check is definite proof that you did your part, and that they have your money. If there's any question about it, you don't have to go through the money order company or your bank to prove it up.
AND - - -Once the cancelled check shows up in your bank statement, you can feel that the seemingly interminable process is at least underway.:D

If you haven't already done so, you might want to read the string at - -

That's about all I can think of. Best of luck to you.

Johnny Guest

Daren Thompson
August 28, 2002, 06:28 PM
Thanks !!

Just one thing, do you need 2 fingerprint cards? I noticed you said that you charged for 2. What is the proper size for the photos? I had mine taken at Walgreen's and are suppose to be passport photos. I have looked on the ATF websight for this information , but could not find it just the forms.

Thanks ,

August 28, 2002, 06:52 PM
Excellant advise re the personal check Johnny G.


Johnny Guest
August 29, 2002, 09:09 AM
One or two?
Ummm--Darren, I really don't remember--It has been almost ten years since I did one of my own. When helping someone else with a Form 4, I usually just take them to either Crime Prevention Office or Jail book-in, whichever is least busy, and tell 'em this person has already paid the print fee, and ask to help him/her out.

I may be getting mixed up because Texas CHL required two cards. The fee is the same whether one, two, or--I think there's one application that requires three - - -cards. Bail Bond license or taxicab permit or somethign of the sort. Our fee is the same, ten dollars.

The forms 4--and others as well--are downloadable on the ATF website, of course. I believe this also prints out a full set of instructions. If it says one finger print card, then send only one.

Sorry for any confusion I caused.

Thanks, Sam. Wish I could claim credit for originating the thought, but the Cl. 3 licensee - - a personal friend- - who helped with transfer of my Thompson gave me that hint.

Johnny Guest

August 29, 2002, 01:41 PM
Certainly not a form 4 expert, I've only submitted one (my personal check cleared last week). I think ATF wants everything in duplicate, I took this to mean fingerprint cards too. IIRC form 4 states acceptable photo dimensions in the box where the photo is pasted or taped.

Good luck with your transfer.

August 29, 2002, 02:43 PM
Its been awhile since I sent one in, but I think you need two fingerprint cards, dont you? I'd let the sherriff do them for you when he signs off. I think the cards have to be signed by the officer that takes the prints, dont they? I dont think you can do them yourself. As for the reason, I just put down "collector" on my forms.

August 29, 2002, 03:06 PM
Two cards required, signed by officer that took them. Afterall, they want to make sure that machine gun does not get into a felon's hands by falsifying fingerprints. LOL!, like a felon wouldn't just do a mill and drill!

Don't forget the new form, certification of compliance, where you have to certify your US citizenship (I know, dumb but necessary). PDF form is available on titleii.com. Infact, so is the new form 4 and just about anything else you'll need. Download today and you don't have to wait on snailmail.

Passport-sized photos are OK - I think its 2x2". It needs to fit in the box on the backside of the form 4 that says "affix photograph here".

Usually the only tricky thing some folks have is the CLEO sign off.

December 21, 2006, 10:02 AM
Gents - quick question on this - I am also thinking about getting a suppressor. I do not have a personal relationship with my sheriff. I live in the pro gun state of Virginia and have had a concealed carry permit for 3 years now.

Do you think I have a better than 50-50 chances of getting the form signed off? (By the local sheriff).

December 21, 2006, 10:10 AM
I would find out which address Form 4's are supposed to go to before sending them off. The ATF has been playing musical chairs and sending your forms and check to the wrong office could add as much as 30 days to your wait time.

I think... Form 1's go to WV, Form 4's go to Atlanta, Georgia now?
The Chicago and Washington DC addresses that may be listed on the forms will still work, but they just sit in a big bag until they forward them all to new locations in WV or GA.

In the Class 3 forum at ar15.com there is a sticky listing the new addresses.

December 21, 2006, 10:24 AM
Duxman, in answer to your queston yes, I you have very good odds of getting a sign-off. It really has nothing to do with the fact that you have a CCW or not. The CLEO signoff is just an indicator that he/she has no reason to believe that you will do anything illegal with the item, not whether he/she thinks you should posess it or not.

December 21, 2006, 10:39 AM
Excellent. Thanks a lot. :D

Another question - really more logistics.

Do I purchase the suppressor first and then get the form signed off or do I get the form signed off first and then purchase the suppressor?

December 21, 2006, 12:41 PM
I'd make sure you can get a signature first.

To add into VUPD's last comment; the CLEO can sign/not sign for any reason. Unless VA has a law forcing the CLEO to sign, they may not sign for any reason they want.
Stood my daughter up at the prom? No sign for you!
You're a loud neighbor? No sign for you!
DOn't like the clothes you're weraing?....You get the point.

December 21, 2006, 03:10 PM
Dux, the procedure you should follow is; Call the Sheriff to see if he will sign the forms. If yes, then you MUST buy the item first and THEN get him to sign the form. You must first purchase the item because the serial number has to be on the form before the CLEO signs it. If your CLEO will not sign, all hope is not lost. You can still form a trust or corporation to buy the item and no signoff is needed....but that is another topic all together. First call and ask and if the answer is no dice, then we'll talk about the other options.


MDW Guns
December 21, 2006, 05:22 PM
I am a Class III dealer. I always print the picture onto the form and that makes it a lot easier and cleaner.
If you want, send me an e-mail and I get you everythng in PDF fromat, so you just need a good color printer!

December 21, 2006, 06:14 PM
Cool thanks guys. I will line up the funds and then make the call to the local Sheriff.

December 21, 2006, 08:03 PM
www.ar15.com HOMETOWN Virginias NFA Sign Off By County