View Full Version : Sawed off BP shotgun?

July 2, 2002, 05:34 AM
IIRC the federal rules regarding short barreled shotguns don't apply to muzzle loaded weapons. So would it be legal to chop a black powder shotgun without registration?


July 2, 2002, 08:22 AM
Afraid I don’t know the answer. But I can see the term "Assault Antique" working its way into the media.:D

July 2, 2002, 07:05 PM
Any legalities on that?
Hmmm.... never thought about this idea.

July 2, 2002, 08:02 PM
It doesn't fall under the definition of a short barreled rifle or shotgun, however, it may fall under the definition of a destructive device.

Subpart B-Definitions

§ 179.11 Meaning of terms.

Destructive device. (a) Any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (1) bomb, (2) grenade, (3) rocket having a propellent charge of more than 4 ounces, (4) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (5) mine, or (6) similar device; (b)any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Director finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (c) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as described in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this definition and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term shall not include any device which is neither designed or redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army under 10 U.S.C. 4684(2), 4685, or 4686, or any device which the Director finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

Somehow, I don't think the Director will classify it as a sporting weapon. :)

July 3, 2002, 12:23 AM
While I would HIGHLY reccomend checking it out first hand with the ATF, I am inclined to believe that it might be alright to do. The reason I say this is to cite the Lemat revolvers as an example with it's 20 guage center pin/shotgun barrel. But liek I said, DO NOT take my word for it! Check it out with the ATF. Better to be safe than doing 10 years in club fed. :(

July 3, 2002, 06:51 AM
In shotgun news somebody (Navy Arms out of NJ ?) sold a short barreled double percusion shotgun for around 250.00.
So at least at that time, it was legal.

Cap n ball
July 3, 2002, 12:57 PM
I think it's legality might depend upon if it was manufactured that way rather than converted. H&R 'Handy guns' and Ithaca 'Burglar guns' were manufactured as pistol griped side by side shotguns with 10" barrels and the earlier ones used a black powder shotgun shell but they are still illegal. I have a smoothbore flintlock pistol that is approximately 20 gauge and can shoot it as a shotgun if I load it that way with identical effects of a 'Burglar gun'. I don't know why you couldn't have a similar caplock smoothbore pistol that would practically be the same thing. .58 cal is about right for such a piece. One in each hand would be a spectacular and most unwelcome vision to an intruder.:D

4V50 Gary
July 4, 2002, 10:39 AM
I'm of the opinion that black powder shotguns (muzzleloaders) can be any length. Why? Black powder guns aren't federally regulated - yet. There's no hesitation on the part of any BP gunbuilder to build a smoothbore pistol (hey, in the days of the old some flintlock pistols weren't rifled).

The North South Skirmish Association and National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association have both joined in the fight to prevent such legislation from being enacted.

Alex Johnson
July 4, 2002, 11:09 AM
Our local sporting goods store has a new pedersoli 12 guage that is shortened, not sure if it would be under legal length but it would be close. I would tend to doubt that there regulated.