View Full Version : Can't hit broad side of a barn with a 100-round burst from a 50BMG!

cornered rat
February 25, 1999, 06:54 PM
Not that bad, but close.

Went to sight in 10/22 and mini14 yesterday. Shot some off-hand, some from an improvized rest.

From the rest, the shot were fairly close together, within limitations of the sights and rifle. Off-hand, at 25m I could get maybe half of the .223 shots into an 8-inch plate. For comparison, I can place 357 from a 6" revolver into just over 2" circle.

The barrel moved around visibly, just couldn't hold it still. Two possibilitis, not mutually exclusive:

1) I don't know how to hold a rifle. Could be. Would anyone explain to me how to do it right?

2) I am a whimp, which is supported by the fact that the 10/22 did not wobble as much (however, sights are worse on it, hence similar results). Need to work out, with which no one here can help.

But, as far as proper stance and holding goes, any pointers? (Besides using a cylinder bore shotgun?)


If you believe in freedom and means of protecting it...you might be a gun nut.

Rich Lucibella
February 25, 1999, 07:50 PM
I'm going thru the same thing, though i've had some instruction from Mykl and Mad Dog.

Please go to Amazon.com and get Jeff Cooper's The Art of the Rifle. It's a short, definitive study for those of us wishing to learn it right.

Jeff Thomas
February 25, 1999, 11:17 PM
Rich, thanks. Going to Crossroads of the West this weekend, and I'll pick up a copy. The following weekend we'll be sighting in some AR's and 10/22's, so this will be timely. Regards from AZ.

February 27, 1999, 01:59 AM
I too suggest a good book with illustrations. Without pictures or someone with you to coach, it would be almost impossible to descibe the proper way to hold a rifle.
Add a sling to your rifle. You'd be surprised how much a properly adjusted sling and a quick "arm wrap" hold can steady a rifle.

cornered rat
February 27, 1999, 11:08 AM
I will put my sling back on...still have no clue as to how to adjust it, but amazon confirmed shipping Cooper's book this morning.

BTW, I am beginning to like the old crumugeon.

Michael Carlin
February 27, 1999, 10:32 PM
My web page has a sling page. The properly USMC method calls for the hooks to be on top of the sling closest to the rifle. The instructions for the use of the sling should then work. I may have to rent a digital camera and make a "how to of this".

I just learned how about a year ago, now it seems so easy to manage.

Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!

Yours In Marksmanship


March 1, 1999, 05:54 PM
With respect to the title of your post: try standing IN the barn... works for me!

cornered rat
March 1, 1999, 10:38 PM
I just got and read the book. It is not bad, though the picture quality is lousy (his web site talks about cheap editors).
I plan to practice what he's preching.

PS: What the hell was he doing in Rhodezia(sp?)?

PPS: Q is down with a cold, so I will get back to caring for her.

Ken Cook
March 9, 1999, 04:53 AM
May I suggest USMC Bootcamp?
Nahhh, to much trouble just to learn proper positions.
I've never tried to do this in writing, but here goes,
1.Stand with weak side facing target
2.Place Strong side foot about 4 inches forward
3.Keeping your spine straight and head up, place the butt of the rifle in the pocket of your shoulder.
4. Turn your head downrange and lower head to acquire sight picture.
NOTE: DO not lower head so much that you hyper extend your neck/upper spine. If you need to do this to acquire sight picture, then the butt is placed too low in the pocket of your shoulder. Raise the butt untill you can acquire sight picture with your head in an "only slightly" bent position.
5. Raise you strong (trigger) side elbow to a position parallel to the ground.
6. Weak hand pulls rifle into shoulder pocket, strong hand presses stock to cheek.(Gently but firmly.)
7. You may want to thrust your hips forward. Personal pref.
Note: You CAN'T keep the sight alignment and sight picture all the time. When you start your squeeze and the sights wander off, STOP SQUEEZING! Just hold what you've got and get your sight picture back. Then Start squeezing again.
There you have it. "How to win at Camp Perry in 200 words or less! :D :D :D :D :D
Hope this helps! Let me know.

Your mind is your primary weapon.

March 9, 1999, 03:53 PM
Ken Cook - I take it you are a Marine? :)

i'm headed off to San Deigo in about 2 weeks to start my wonderfull, fun filled 3 months at the USMC boot camp.. hehe

March 9, 1999, 08:14 PM

Do what you're told.
Keep your mouth shut unless told to speak.
Don't volunteer.
Be nice to the Corpsman even if he isn't a Marine.
Under no conditions slap at the sand fleas.

You will be proud you made this choice if you can hack it.


March 9, 1999, 09:27 PM
hairball and cat.



"Oh, grow up, 007."

March 9, 1999, 10:40 PM
You wouldn't say that if you saw me!

Ken Cook
March 10, 1999, 05:19 AM
Sorry to dissapoint you, but MCRD San Diego doesn't HAVE sand fleas. Some sort of Logistics foulup at MCLB Albany. :D

Pay no attention to Cat. He's just trying to scare you. The Drill Instructors are all very nice fellows and will tuck you into bed every night with a kiss on the forehead and a glass of milk. You will only get cookies if you're especially good though!

Don't worry, they will tell you everything you need to know to succeed in Boot Camp. The best advice I can give anyone about to go to Bootcamp is to LISTEN, LEARN, DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU"RE TOLD but most of all, THINK!
You will screw up. You will make stupid mistakes that you cannot now believe possible, but you will make them. It's what Recruits do. Can't help it. You wake up with someone screaming at you, go through the day with people screaming at you, and go to sleep after having someone scream at you. (See a pattern here?)
OTOH, you will make friends like none you have ever had before. You will do things you would never have believed you could do. You will graduate (if you work hard) and become a MARINE. Those who are not Marines can never know what that means.
If you haven't guessed by now, Yes,I am a Marine. (former) One thing you will learn in Bootcamp is this. "Once a Marine, always a Marine." It is the Gospel according Chesty Puller.
BTW, When you get to range week, you will see a Marine standing on an old red table. He will preach the word, and the word is weapons maintenance. I paced that table for two years. That man is not just a Marine, he is a Marine Armorer. he is a High Priest in a religion of War. Heed his words. When you get to the Range (Edson Range, Area 31) You will see Marines in Pith Helmets. These are Coaches. Their purpose is to help you qualify as a Marine Expert Rifleman. Listen to them, They know more than you. (That's a period at the end of that sentence.) I was once one of these Marines in Funny Hats.

In Summary, Look, listen, learn, think, Graduate!
Remember, you are not a Marine until your Senior Drill Instructor tells you you are. Until then you are just a Recruit. I won't go into where Recruits rate in the food chain, but it's somewhere below sand fleas.
You'll be glad you went! Come back here and let us know when you graduate.

(Damn! I can talk sh** like a GOD!) :D :D :D
Semper Gumby! (Always Flexible)
Your mind is your primary weapon.

[This message has been edited by Ken Cook (edited March 10, 1999).]

March 10, 1999, 11:39 PM
Q and Ken,
The sand flea means something if you ever saw the old bw flick "The DI" starring Jack Webb, or had to put up with them.
Ken, you said it all very well.
I too will be waiting for Hairball to return to the net after basic.

March 11, 1999, 03:31 AM
You guys are make not regret the fact that I didn't get qualify to go to Marine OCS my freshman year of college. I would have stuck with the PLC program, but got a part time job and don't have time to hang out with the OSO anymore

Ken Cook
March 11, 1999, 05:11 AM
You mean Jack "I'm only hard on 'em because I love 'em" Webb?
I think it's required that all Marines love that movie!
Sands of Iwo Jima, and Bugs Bunny! HOOYAH!

Your mind is your primary weapon.

March 11, 1999, 09:55 AM

Marine Corps Recruit Training... What a great way to spend the Summer!

Hard to believe it was almost 10 years ago for me. The memories are vivid.

Hairball, the secret to survival is that you live from chow to chow. No matter what you're doing, or how miserable you happen to be, keep in mind that you're never more than a couple hours from your next meal, which is a relatively peaceful time (hurried, but peaceful).

Semper Fi


Jeff Thomas
March 12, 1999, 12:04 AM
Just finished 'Art of the Rifle' as well. Is a 'Ching Sling' the way to go, as Mr. Jeff Cooper suggests?