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seanc
December 28, 1998, 06:25 PM
What's the gun to get if you're stuck in the
city when/if y2k goes south? Some choices to
get started:
AR rifle, AK/SKS, M1 Carbine, Marlin 30-30...

Kodiac
December 28, 1998, 06:33 PM
Bushmaster AR-15 with a 16 inch barrel.

Look at those goodies at:
www.bushmaster.com

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Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
[email protected]

shane
December 28, 1998, 06:44 PM
I have to go with the AK. Simple ultra reliable. In the city if I can't hit it with in 300 meters I'll run away to fight another day. Just the way I see it.

Bailout
December 28, 1998, 09:26 PM
How much money do you have to spend?

seanc
December 28, 1998, 10:02 PM
Keep the cost under $1000. Need to buy ammo, too.

Rob Pincus
December 28, 1998, 10:58 PM
Sorry I have been not around so much last day or two.. been out chasing BGs. Went into a house yesterday and a crack-head had made his Y2k rifle choice... fully loaded E.A. AR, looked just like the one that was described last month on this forum. Not a settling sight, trust me.

If you had to start fresh today, I'd make an argument for a Mini-14. I like .223, but ARs are going to cost more.



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-Essayons

Ed Brunner
December 28, 1998, 11:17 PM
Just visited bushmaster.com and elieve I'm hooked.
Has anybody assembled one? Moneywise it seems the way to go.

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Better days to be,

Ed

Marcus
December 28, 1998, 11:44 PM
Something that I think is often missed by the "pick a _____ for y2k" question is that we don`t know what y2k will entail. The situation might dictate a mello looking "hunting gun" to keep the reigning authorities from throwing a fit. You may also need to take large game for food or shoot through hard cover etc. Further,do you *really* need 30rd. mags. and 6 spare clips? If you`re up against numbers so strong and well armed that all this is necessary the law of averages says you`ve already lost. In this situation might you be better off with a scoped "hunting rifle" to pick off the BG`s at a distance or make every second of exposure count? Maybe maybe not,but it`s sonething to think about. My thought is that a scout rifle or scoped carbine in say .308,or 30-06(30-30 to a lesser extent) would be much more versatile and attract a lot less attention in the back seat during a "bug out" with the family. Of course I love assault rifles too,I`m just not convinced they`re perfect for the y2k question. Marcus

Rob Pincus
December 29, 1998, 01:21 AM
Marcus,

That's another reason for the Min-14. The versions available now are rather innocent looking. The .223 is certainly adequate for hunting, yet lightweight, and hi-cap mags are there if you need them. It is easy to throw a few mags in a back pack and you'd be well supplied for a year's worth of food hunting.

I agree that the whole line of "what y2k _____ ?" is kinda silly, because it should be "what ____ do you have just in case of ______."
And the answer should be consistent.. which would really lead me back to a shotgun capable of shooting Shot and Slugs.



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Mark King
December 29, 1998, 08:15 AM
Would have to be the Bushmaster Shorty AK with a buch of 30 round magazines.... Mark/FL

fal308
December 29, 1998, 09:24 AM
I'd have to agree with Rob. In a city I would opt for for shotgun and discretion.

.
December 29, 1998, 01:22 PM
High Standard Model 10B with
2-3/4" magnums of custom 000 & #4 Buckshot loads. A kind of a "Buck & Ball" for the Millenium in a short and rapid handling package.

spleenandideal
December 29, 1998, 03:56 PM
I too would agree with Rob.... a ubiquitous Mini-14, a smallish 12 guage with slugs and buckshot, and a autoloading handgun would serve well if this Y2K thing really comes to fruition. However, lugging all of this stuff around will give you that "Doom" look. Stay home until everything settles down.

David
December 29, 1998, 04:13 PM
Price independant, my H&K 91 with A3 stock.

Price dependant, Springfield M1A1 with paratrooper stock. O.K., so I like .308. It's a good plinking round.

Shotgun: Remington 870 with Speedfeed pistol grip, and a variety of shells.

Edmund Rowe
December 29, 1998, 06:22 PM
I personally prefer an AR-15.

If you get a post-ban or find a good deal on a pre-ban, it may be possible to get an AR and 1000 rounds for just about $1000 from someplace like Georgia Arms.

If it is socially acceptable to mention another site here, gunforums.com under Carbine and Rifle I started a thread of
"Ideal AR-15: my experience"

...and keep in mind if you have ANY long arm and are familiar with it/trained with it, you can carry the day.

Kudos for desiring a long arm for a RBD
(Really Bad Day)

Edmund

Dakota Law Dog
December 29, 1998, 08:49 PM
I like the AR15 series. There will never be a rifle in this country that you can get parts, mags, etc. like this one. I also would give consideration to a .30-30 levergun. Or a scout type rifle.

Marcus
December 30, 1998, 12:06 AM
Rob,I agree the Mini 14 is great choice for those who want a small cal. semi auto that won`t get a SWAT team called out on ya. I like a little bigger caliber for unknown uses,just in case,but .223 is okay for most uses. I also agree about the shotgun. My 1st line of defence is a Rem.870 with slug sights and some other goodies. ;) Marcus

shane
December 31, 1998, 07:36 PM
Eric why the 30-30?

Daryl Waldron
December 31, 1998, 09:30 PM
I would go with the AK. Handy and reliable. I have no problem with a AR, but I am not a real fan of the 223.

Art Eatman
December 31, 1998, 11:36 PM
Consider your parameters: You'll probably be either at home, with the concerns of penetration of other rooms or your neighbor's walls; or in transit from some sort of errand. This issue of over-penetration would favor the .223 round.

Relatively short ranges without the need for 300- or 400-yard "knockdown" power; possible multiple foes, but I'd assume discretion if foes are more than, say, two to five. Ergo, box-magazine autoloader.

If you are faced with some cities' anti-self-defense political structure--and these political structures will continue to be jealous of their prerogatives--then AK clones and black plastic will continue to cause negative vibes. Since you are not thinking in terms of protracted firefights of hundreds of rounds at a time, I see no reason why a Mini-14 would not meet your needs.

.223 ammo costs less than .308. A .223 rifle is easier for repeated aimed fire than one of heavier recoil.

FWIW, Art

Jeff White
January 1, 1999, 11:34 AM
I'd go with a 16" AR15 varient, carried in something like the Eagle Industries Discreet Carry case. Or perhaps a golf bag or something similarly unobtrusive. If things are to the point that we're moving about our cities with battle rifles and combat harnesses on, it'd probably be better not to be moving around.

One of the big advantages to the AR15 is that is is essentially identical to the M16 that the security forces (when and if they arrive)will be using making battlefied resupply of ammunition, magazines etc. easy.

I really hope things don't come to that, I've got a feeling our major urban areas would make anything we've seen out of Bosnia look tame if there was that great a breakdown in society.

Jeff

Dakota Law Dog
January 1, 1999, 06:14 PM
.30-30 is a plentiful powerful found for defense. But if you are in the city, and you have hoards of looters coming for your stuff, an AR15 type rifle with lots of 30 rounders handy is the way to go. With a 12 gauge pump as last resort line of defense.

Back to the .30-30. It was and is a favorite in the SW US. By LE and ranchers alike. I love my Marlin 336 TS carbine and thank God that I could afford all three, a Colt AR15 16", Marlin, and Remington 870 suitably modified. I don't have a "Scout Rifle" per se, but my Rem. Model 7 will suit me fine for that niche (.308). And Rem. 700 HB .308 (Kevlar stock) to reach out and touch someone.

I think that .30-30, .308. and .223 , along with .30-06 will be among the most available calibers in a crisis for rifles. .38 spec, 9mm, and .45 ACP for handguns.

4V50 Gary
January 1, 1999, 08:46 PM
HK in .223 with collaspable stock and plenty of 40 round magazines. Reliable, accurate and with its slimline forearm, very handy.

fal308
January 2, 1999, 10:28 AM
DLD
30-30s are popular here in Missouri also. I've got several different Marlins in the safe. I know that I can walk into just about any town or hardware store and if they have any ammo on the shelf you can bet the bank that there is 30-30 and 12 gauge.

Rob Pincus
January 3, 1999, 12:43 AM
Jeff,

If the lights are out, the phones don't work, the water is contaminated and their is no food on the shelves, aren't people going to think your Golf-bag is a little odd? ;)

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-Essayons

4V50 Gary
January 3, 1999, 01:23 AM
I hated golf and my talent may be restricted to caddying (provided I don't wander off somewhere to sleep). That is until my older brother explained the game to me:

You take a BB gun and stuff it down your golf bag, pour in some ice, toss in some beer, more ice, then a couple of clubs. Knock the ball near the quail, pull out the BB gun, bag a bird, stuff the gun back into the bag, stuff the bird into the bag, pop a beer, look for more birds, knock the ball... You get the picture.

I may have to go to a garage sale and buy a golf bag and clubs.

Douglas in CT
January 3, 1999, 03:22 PM
This subject has me also wondering about applications in the urban/suburban setting.
First, I've never fired any of the following ...so some help clearing my mind on this subject is greatly appreciated.
AR-15 in .223 vs. Ruger Carbine in 9mm
Other than having the same ammo as my Glock pistol, what advantages/disadvantages are there in using the 9mm vs. .223?

Only slightly confused,
Douglas in CT

Edmund Rowe
January 3, 1999, 06:57 PM
Douglas in CT: I'm making a separate thread to answer your question

Edmund

Jeff White
January 3, 1999, 08:36 PM
Rob,
I suppose a golf bag might stand out a little (I don't play myself) in those circumstances, but then again I know some pretty dedicated players :)

I do think a discreet carry for a rifle in an urban setting would be the way to go. Why attract a lot of attention to yourself. Someone may ambush you just to get your rifle.

Anyone else have any ideas about discreet unobtrusive carry for a rilfe/carbine?
Jeff

Jeff Thomas
January 4, 1999, 12:29 AM
[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited 01-05-99).]

thaddeus
January 7, 1999, 12:13 AM
The fact that assault weapons may be even confiscated leads me to belive that a benign looking hunting rifle may be the way to go. Even a modified "sniper" rifle to most people will look just like a hunting rifle. A Styer Scout even , to most everyone, would look like just another hunting rifle. An M-14 by ruger would be an excellent choice. I have also considered a Marlin camp rifle for it's dependability and the fact that I can reload 9mm, and my wife can operate and shoot it easily. Don't get me wrong, I will have an AR, but I want some other more regular looking stuff as well.

thaddeus

Rob Pincus
January 7, 1999, 12:33 AM
Jeff W.,

I'm not sure what circumstances you envision carrying a rifle in a concelaed manner, but for everyday use in normal circumstances, I am a big fan of roof racks. There is one design that holds two long guns up above the occupants in your truck. There is also a desgin which hangs above your dash like a tray up against the cieling of the passenger compartment.
This is a great way to carry a rifle and/or shotgun in your truck without having to stash it behind a seat or putting a "Redneck Rob Me" sign in the sliding window.

Thad,
I think you are on the right track, if you mean the Mini-14, see my posts above.

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-Essayons

Jeff White
January 7, 1999, 08:34 PM
Rob,
I like your roof rack idea. I was thinking more on the lines of dismounted carry though. Might not be the best idea to walk into a crowd or store etc, openly carrying a rifle (especially an "evil" black one). But if things are bad enough, you may want to have it with you and not rely on a handgun as your primary weapon.
Jeff

rkfischer
January 7, 1999, 09:08 PM
Having lived in both a metropolitan area in a subdivision and currently in a rural environment, I would like to offer my suggestions. First, in a subdivision at 100+ meters you can be at least two houses away. Hard to identify friend/foe. If you start randomly picking off targets without provocation you will create a huge problem. If you or your loved ones are threatened, I see that happening at close range. Perfect environment for a shotgun. With slugs, this same firearm will also be effective out to 75 meters (plenty of whitetails are mounted above fireplace mantles to prove the point.) If you are able to have an arsenal at your disposal one of everything is nice. If not, the gun that settled this country can't be all bad.

Rob Pincus
January 7, 1999, 10:53 PM
In the scenario you guys are contemplating I honestly think the rules are going to be different than anything we can put into terms of todays state of the law...

Let's see...
panic in the streets...
no communications....
food is running low....
I might be shooting people in the street to protect myself or to get food...
The reserve troops that they can find are being called in to enforce martial law....

NFA my a**, I'm getting out my hacksaw.
(another good reason to have a red-dot sight on your AR...)
(This is not meant to be a post encouraging/advising/approving vthe violation of federal law... but being safe during a time of true civil disorder is worth having to discard a barrel or upper reciever if/when order is restored.. IMHO)


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-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 01-07-99).]

4V50 Gary
January 7, 1999, 11:10 PM
I'm no authority on religion or law, but I believe that we all have the God given right to self defense and if it means violating a few of man's laws, so be it.

Just my personal opinion and like Rob, I'm not advocating violating Federal Law unless it was the lesser of two evils (death or great bodily injury as opposed to avoidance of same by violation thereof).

[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 01-08-99).]