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GmbH
October 23, 1998, 09:54 PM
debating for a sub$500 rifle for accuracy. looking for a sort of bigger Ruger Mini 223 so that I can also shoot deers (on the head).

Kodiac
October 23, 1998, 11:26 PM
You can build an AR-15 from a kit for about 500 bucks. There is a thread in here some place where we discused these kits. Thats a place to start.
If I cant do a AR kit... I would go with a Remington 700... They are very accurate, and nobady ever said "Why the heck did you buy a Remington?" They are well known for being VERY GOOD. The HK-G36K is supposed to be around 800 for LEOs... If your in LE - I would save another three hundred and get that.

GmbH
October 24, 1998, 08:33 AM
Kodiac, is HK-G36K a G3? I've fired a G3 when I was in the service. I like it, but hard to get one at a local gun shop.

Building an AR-15 sounds good because I ( as an ex-M16 user ) don't have to learn the weapon from the groud up. The catch is, who will stand for the accuracy and reliability when you add up the garden-variety of parts. BTW, I still love the idea of owning an AR. How much does a true COLT AR-15 cost these days?

Or, would you simply go with a Remington 700, which has no bells and whistles like an AR15?

Thanks.

4V50
October 24, 1998, 08:32 PM
GmBH,

The HK G36 is an entirely new design from the delayed roller locked blowback G3 family of weapons. I believe (but may be mistaken) that it is a conventional gas operated piston-driven weapon.

I've fired it and was impressed. To me, the balance was better than the G3 or HK 43/93. It shot well for the 50 plus yards we could shoot at and you have a choice of sighting systems (iron & red dot optical).

.
October 25, 1998, 09:39 AM
GmbH,

The AR kit is a good starting point.

The 7.62x39mm conversion would get you into the 30-30 class of power and into the minimum acceptable bullet diameter specified by many states for deer hunting (assuming you plan to hunt legally). Many will not accept the .223Rem for deer-sized game.

The .300 Whisper conversion may cost more, but by the time you've installed a free-floating custom barrel inside match fore-end, then you'll have both power and accuracy. The AR lends itself to a quick mount and rapid target acquisition. This latter can be enhanced inexpensively with a no or low-power binocular aiming device. That will give you the troika of accuracy, power, and speed. DVC!

Alternatively, you can buy a used Ruger Mini-30 and have a good 'smith tweak it for minimal bucks. Save the bucks you would otherwise spend on an evolving bang-stick, for ammo (for practice) and hunting fees.

ShadedDude
October 25, 1998, 01:39 PM
I may be treading on forbiden ground, but I have been told, more than once, that Savage rifles are actually very accurate. And price is usualy around $300-$400. Alot of people dont think to much of Savage, but everyone with actually experience with one that I have talked to has said they are good guns. They are also one of few company's that offer almost thier entire line in LEFT HAND. My wife is left handed, soon we are going to buy her a savage in .308 to hunt with. It will be her first rifle, and we decided it would be much better to spend $300 than $700-$1200 on something she is going to knock around the woods.

food for thought.

Kodiac
October 25, 1998, 05:56 PM
The G36 is an all new rifle from HK - and I think its a direction they needed to go. Fitting with the USP line of pistols. This will help keep HK fresh in the market since departments have been looking for less costly options.

There is the Office of Civilian Marksmenship or some thing that if you jump through certain hoops and hold your breath long enough can get you an M1 for like a hundred bucks or something...
Any one know what I am talking about here? Have contact information?

4V50
October 25, 1998, 08:58 PM
Kodiak,

Bought an Int'l Harvester Garand from DCM back in 96 when they were something like $285. I know IH is desirable, but not this one. The receiver was discolored as if a torch had been taken to it in anticipation of cutting. You could see a blue circle one one side of the receiver which went through to the other. The color went down to the clip guide where the circle was considerably smaller. Didn't trust to shoot the thing and I sent it back to DCM. They wanted to refund the money and not sell me another but I argued the spirit of the law: one shooter, one Garand. Well, they were nice and sent me another. While it wasn't Int'l Harvester (nor was it an M1D), it was much more servicable.

The Office of Civilian Marksmanship may be reached at:

P.O. Box 576
Port Clinton, Ohio, 43452
ph: 419-635-2141.

I suspect that the prices have increased in the past years. I haven't ordered any parts in over a year now and I don't know if the above is current.

[This message has been edited by 4V50 (edited 10-27-98).]

fal308
October 26, 1998, 10:08 AM
Yes, the DCM program is still alive. The weapons now cost $400 and you still don't know if you're going to get a good rifle or not. I guess it's still whether the person picking the weapons is just grabbing whatever is most handy or is actually picking out what they think is a good weapon.

Kodiac
October 27, 1998, 10:43 AM
So basically the DCM is not worth it... since you can very easily get a real dog of a rifle.
For $400 bucks you can buy a pretty solid used rifle locally. I bet the price hike is an attempt to kill the DCM program altogether. I can see a lot of people ircked by the fact that such a program exists in the face of all the governments efforts against guns. Amusing and sad at the same time.

4V50
October 27, 1998, 11:15 AM
The 2nd Garand sent to me is good. Good receiver, headspace, good wood. The first was definitely an aberation. I've heard some horror stories though about them. Sorry wood and worn parts.

In the old days, DCM always sent out stuff that would pass military muster. Modernly, they don't always do it.

For myself, it's worth it. With the paperwork, while you're not suppose to, you can always sell it for more.

And finally, there's the gratifying feeling of walking out of the US Post Office with this 4 foot plus long box from the US Army. The Postal People and everybody's mother (with applicable reverence and respect) knows what you're carrying. Tough if they can't take a joke.

fal308
October 27, 1998, 11:42 AM
They just raised the price in Jan. They also don't have any import markings as they're pulled from war reserves.

Rob Pincus
October 27, 1998, 04:05 PM
I just sw an Add in GunList for that French Foriegn Legion Semi rechambered in .308 for $199 with three mags, anyoneknow anything about this rifle? Can you go wrong for $200 on a semi 308 ?

GLV
October 28, 1998, 12:46 AM
The Mas 49/56 is a good rifle for the asking price of about $200- 250. Mine came with 3 10 round magazines, and a hand full of accessories. Accuracy is good, and it has a built in scope mount -- no scopes yet but I am sure there will be.
I also bought a used Browning BAR in .308. Gun shoot good, prices on used ones -- about $400-500. GLV

GmbH
October 29, 1998, 09:32 PM
GLV, for MAS 49/56, what do you mean by no scopes yet? And I wonder what kind of scope mount it has? Does it use hard-to-find/expensive rounds?

Thanks.

Rob Pincus
October 29, 1998, 11:12 PM
Gm- apparently the 7.5 French round is relatively hard to find and it I saw a price around 8 bucks for 15 rounds! If I get one it will be the .308 conversion. I may use it as my "test" gun next week when the Tennessee instant check goes into effect.